What are the worst Warscrolls and Why?

[RuneBrush]

6 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

3+ is fine, he's got extra tough skin from the world and his dog firing arrows at him to attempt to snipe him off, all the time.

 

[Chris Tomlin]

On ‎10‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 0:17 PM, Nico said:

Varanguard have perhaps the biggest gap between coolness of models and viability in lists.

Terrible Shields (cf normal Chaos Runeshields - let alone Dracoth Knight Shields).

Keyword mechanic is cool except it's tied to a 700 point hero who is only viable in DoT, which they cannot join.

The list that comes out as 2020 points if you use them as Battleline is infuriating.

Even the DoT book doesn't resuscitate them.

Yeh I agree Varanguard are an odd one. I feel like they need two different points costs; one with Archaon and one without as they are transformed into something closer to what you'd expect with the Grand Marshall in play.

Worth noting that there is now a 100pt Gaunt Summoner so the battalion can be played at 2,000 points ala @Bananaman at the Slaughter.

Gore-gruntas have been mentioned multiple times in this thread and whilst I've grown to like them, most of what's been said is deserved. The D3 damage charge mechanic is clunky and poor. Just make it like the old Ogre Kingdoms gut charge and have it trigger if you just roll the 8+ on the charge, regardless of the proximity of enemy units. I'd much rather a buff to the scroll than a points decrease, but I appreciate it's not gonna happen. Being that I own 18 I may be slightly biased!!  

As for the worst scroll in the game? It's a bit of a travesty, as he should be the best. Yeh, you guessed it. It's my boy;

SLAMBRO!

...any excuse eh?

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, RuneBrush said:

I'd say that 4+ would be more reasonable and put him more into line with most of the Khorne heroes.  Bearing in mind the model is significantly taller than everything round him, it's not like he can particularly hide (he does wear a rather fetching necklace of skulls instead of a shirt though )

Can't you stop an arrow to the chest ? An just walk it off?

Dude, do you even war

 

I'd rather rules not be done based on the atheistics of a model.

Who's to say save doesn't include their martial prowess and honed abilities over thousands of fights and decades of war.

[Nico]

Quote

Worth noting that there is now a 100pt Gaunt Summoner so the battalion can be played at 2,000 points ala @Bananaman at the Slaughter.

Great shout! It actually works as the unit names are identical for the one on foot without his 4 buddies; and the one on disk.

 

[RuneBrush]

1 hour ago, Arkiham said:

Can't you stop an arrow to the chest ? An just walk it off?

Dude, do you even war

 

I'd rather rules not be done based on the atheistics of a model.

Who's to say save doesn't include their martial prowess and honed abilities over thousands of fights and decades of war.

Agree the rules will likely reflect their abilities, faith in their god etc - I was just replying to comment to reduce it to a 5+!  I'm personally more than happy with a 3+

[sal4m4nd3r]

On 3/12/2017 at 6:13 AM, shadowgra said:

Imho i will add to the list some other scrolls:

Orghotts; he simply does too low damage, and the great warrior that he should be is simply a joke in terms of damage. He needs a damage 2 or d3 in the axes and the maggoth. I simply don't understand why a normal ogor should do more damage than an enormous nurgle monster.

They should change also the plague ogres warscroll (i doubt they'll do it) cause it simply has close to no sense. They need at least a -1 rend for god sake!

In the end the lord of plague. No damage, no tankiness (stuck on a 4+) awful command ability, awful aura. No absolute sense in taking him, ever

Yeah the lord of plagues needs a re-work. I would love for his nurgles rot ability to increase the roll needed to proc the blightkings "virulent discharge" by 1...(so on a 5+). Either via a range bubble of simply being on the board. That ALONE would not only make the blightguard formation usable and but also very fluffy. Nurgles rot is the discharge ability without the healing, so instead of doing a weaker version of what his minions do.. he should just make them MORE gross. Maybe his command ability could increase the range of the discharge, or just something else all together..

His damage is kinda lacking.. but is par for the course for an elite hero. 3 attacks 3/3/-1/d3.  Its not bad. Not good either. I wouldn't mind if his profile stayed the same if he was a proper support/buff character to the blightkings. So for now, he shall remain a random stand-in for a blightkings unit in my army

[sal4m4nd3r]

On 3/10/2017 at 6:40 PM, Nico said:

Agreed - he is in the top five worst command abilities, but can anyone unseat Kazyk the Befouled? 

 

No. It's literally impossible as he comes with Inspiring presence by default. LOL So his command ability it literally useless. In fact the ink it costed me to print out cost me $0.0002 and was a waste. 

[CoffeeGrunt]

Wait, so he just has Inspiring Presence with an extra 2" range? That's a distinct lack of imagination on Forge World's part.

[Nico]

You beat me to the draw. That fluffy and divisible by 7 extra 2" range really does disappoint.

Nurgle were my first AoS army - major error there! They got kerbstomped at London's Calling 2015 (I had a great time - I've bought many armies since then); and have largely been oozing on the shelf ever since.

The Glottkin has long been an embarrassment on the table for its cost. Orghotts is better value for money and has the 3+ save at least.

[shadowgra]

I think that they will completely change most of the nurgle units, glottkin included

His damage output is good but he twice taller than a maw krusha, he is enormous. From something like that i am expecting tons of damage and resistances. Which he brings not. His spell is kinda unique tho. Also the other 2 abilities beside regen are really really bad...

Orghotts imho is way weaker than the other maggoth lords, has an incredible difference in output compared to morbidex, who also doesn't waste any command if he is not the general. Plus he makes nurglings worth taking. Finally bloab is without any doubt the better of the 3.

The fact is that if u are playing mortal nurgle u 95% of the time go harbinger, that imho is not the way an army should play. He gives such good benefits that overshadows everything else (also there is not too much to overshadow in rotbringers)

I agree that they need to make that aura stack, so it can actually be useful. And it will be awesome if they do another thing:

If they put the 5+ save that almost all nurgle units have as allegiance ability. This will not only justify their cost, but also will make maybe other generals that are not harbinger more viable. Finally it will take out a really important battleline for the list that people don't like lately, such as stormfiends+sayl that generally uses plaguebearers as an anvil.

Finally i think that the only scroll which is not straight up bad or not functional is the blightkings. I will keep this guys as they are (even if a -1 rend would help a lot against most armies)

And for god sake give us some battalion, there is only 1 for mortal nurgle and i think 1 also for daemons (?)....

[sal4m4nd3r]

54 minutes ago, shadowgra said:

I think that they will completely change most of the nurgle units, glottkin included

His damage output is good but he twice taller than a maw krusha, he is enormous. From something like that i am expecting tons of damage and resistances. Which he brings not. His spell is kinda unique tho. Also the other 2 abilities beside regen are really really bad...

Orghotts imho is way weaker than the other maggoth lords, has an incredible difference in output compared to morbidex, who also doesn't waste any command if he is not the general. Plus he makes nurglings worth taking. Finally bloab is without any doubt the better of the 3.

The fact is that if u are playing mortal nurgle u 95% of the time go harbinger, that imho is not the way an army should play. He gives such good benefits that overshadows everything else (also there is not too much to overshadow in rotbringers)

I agree that they need to make that aura stack, so it can actually be useful. And it will be awesome if they do another thing:

If they put the 5+ save that almost all nurgle units have as allegiance ability. This will not only justify their cost, but also will make maybe other generals that are not harbinger more viable. Finally it will take out a really important battleline for the list that people don't like lately, such as stormfiends+sayl that generally uses plaguebearers as an anvil.

Finally i think that the only scroll which is not straight up bad or not functional is the blightkings. I will keep this guys as they are (even if a -1 rend would help a lot against most armies)

And for god sake give us some battalion, there is only 1 for mortal nurgle and i think 1 also for daemons (?)....

I agree with everything you said. lol. I run Glotkin as a damage dealer and damage soaker. He takes so much attention away from my 20+ blightkings I run. But I HAVE to use the harbinger and so 480 is such a steep points cost for Glotkin.. when Im  not about the use his command ability and cant give him Lord of War (or any of the other sub par command traits chaos has access to) if he is the General. 

 

I still ahve a ****** load of fun with the army. Just wish it had a BIT more bite.

 

Btw you can run the plaguetouched warband from the everchosen book instead of blightguard. A bit more expensive but no Lord of Plagues and Rotbringer sorcerer as an extra tax!

[shadowgra]

45 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I agree with everything you said. lol. I run Glotkin as a damage dealer and damage soaker. He takes so much attention away from my 20+ blightkings I run. But I HAVE to use the harbinger and so 480 is such a steep points cost for Glotkin.. when Im  not about the use his command ability and cant give him Lord of War (or any of the other sub par command traits chaos has access to) if he is the General. 

 

I still ahve a ****** load of fun with the army. Just wish it had a BIT more bite.

 

Btw you can run the plaguetouched warband from the everchosen book instead of blightguard. A bit more expensive but no Lord of Plagues and Rotbringer sorcerer as an extra tax!

the army is fun, the problem there is new armies!

almost no of the newest armies are even fair matchups: stormcast are maybe one of the worst mu in the entire game (after sayl skaven maybe), they are good (if not very very good) on all fronts: shooting, saves, combat, mobility, prayers.. now there are even really good command traits (staunch defender i think is called) and even mounts trait! disciples of tzeentch is a freeloss, full stop. their mortal wounds kills our centerpieces so badly, and after these are dead the army will crumble to dust, cause we rely heavily on sinergies. mixed destruction is almost the same (most recent army after these one is bcr), they pop out too many wounds and are also way faster so that they can grab objectives easier and quickier, scoring important points. we are increadibly outdated. 

the warband helps but is not enough sadly. glottkin as a general is only good (and has close to no sense) in a mixed/ heavy daemon army (double pb's damage, gives +3a on soulgrinder and + 3a on drones). this army feels so uncomplete to me (but i freaking love nurgle and the miniatures, with the exception of the small unclean one)

[Captain Marius]

I am gonna guess that Nurgle will get a big update later in the year. The rumours of 40k Mortarion and Death Guard come from Hastings who is mega reliable. If they follow the Tzeentch approach we should see Rotbringers brought fully into the aos fold early next year. Then Slaanesh the year after for anyone expecting them to come with Shadowkin this year!

[Baardah]

Wanderers Wild riders... They tok A suckerpunch from the nerfbat with the coming of AOS

[JontyGoesGaming]

Anything with the Aelf keyword.

[Aginor]

I have limited AoS experience, but from those I know

- Greenskinz: Orruk Boar Chariot.
- Seraphon: Jungle Swarms. Either much too expensive or just too bad. AND breaks allegiance except if you are mixed Order anyway.
- Anything relying on multiple spells or Summoning because of rules of one and reinforcement costs.

[mdkinker]

I dislike the wording on some Magmadroth abilities. I think they detract from the fantasy of the model.

The Roaring Fyrestream is unintuitive. You roll one dice (with no wounds taken) and if the result is the same or less than the number of models in the unit you're shooting at then you hit. That means it's really hard to hit Archaon, Alarielle, Treelord Ancients, Beastclaw Raiders, etc even though they are as big as barns. I think the intent was to make it a horde-killer shot, and I think the fantasy would be better served with something that takes wounds into account rather than models. Maybe roll 2D6 (no wounds taken) and if equal to or lesser than the current max wounds for all models in the unit it's a hit? Still blows up hordes, but now it has a reasonable chance to hit behemoths, too.

Lashing Tail suffers a similar issue as it is also a roll to see if you get equal to or under the number of models in the enemy units.

Edit: For clarity

 

[Tubs]

The Fyreslayers Doomseeker is perhaps the most unimaginative and rubbish hero 

[Mortarch]

Right, this might be unpopular..

Nagash... relating the warscroll to his fluff. Nagash "invented" necromancy and basically all the death spells. The fact that he can forget them doesn't really gel with that background and the fact is the god of death. I would suggest deleting the words "on the battlefield", from his warscroll. Nagash should know every death spell. He would actually be worth all his 900 points then! Hell, if you did that and bumped him up a few points, he might still be viable.

Also, the Mortarchs should have the keywords of the Factions they are thematically leading as well as Deathlords... Arkhan with Deathrattle and Deathlords, Manny and Neffy with both Soulblight and Deathlords. Fits the background a bit more!

The other way is more warscroll battalions for Deathlords (like the Neffy one) but that are suitable for Matched Play. One per Mortarch. One for Deathlords (Morghasts), and one for Nagash and everything else.

 

[mdkinker]

I like the idea of giving Nagash more choices in the casting phase. I actually like the idea of giving most casters more choices (access to more different spells). It feels good, and more flavorful, to have a spellcaster choosing which of their spells best fits the scenario on the battlefield. It would help with how overcosted casters are atm, too, especially after the rule of one came out. (I like the rule of one, though)

And, yeah, more keyword integration is needed across a lot of warscrolls. Keywords are an essential part of this game, but they sometimes seem applied (or not applied) in a confusing way. 

[chord]

46 minutes ago, mdkinker said:

And, yeah, more keyword integration is needed across a lot of warscrolls. Keywords are an essential part of this game, but they sometimes seem applied (or not applied) in a confusing way. 

I agree and this is totally solvable via technology.   You could use a graph database to show you how the various warscrolls and keywords interact, etc.

It feels like they are trying to track it all in a spreadsheet.

 

[Percivael]

I've got a dark Aelf army that I love aesthetically but has little going for it in AOS. The Kharibdyss is a case in point, it went from a strength 7 monster in 8th to an assortment of flailing wet rags in AOS. I don't want a point reduction, I want a new Warscroll. That central head should get its own 2 attacks, damage 3 rend 2 and I would be happy.

Fleetmaster's poorness is reflected in his 40 pt cost which I think makes him one of the cheapest characters in the game. Rubbish, but makes up the numbers for three places of power I suppose.

Those Cold One Knights do last forever though.

Im currently adding Seraphon units to improve the army!

[YourSwordisMine]

Heavy Cavalry. Especially if their Lance only have 1" reach... 

Hell, Marauder Horsemen get 2" reach with their Javelins?!!! But Knights with Glaives only get 1" reach? WTF man... WTF

I think most Heavy Cav would be a lot more viable just by adding 2" reach to their Lances.

my two cents anyway.

[JackStreicher]

Using my Necromantic Abilities to resurrect his topic.

 

As of AoS 2.0 the worst Warscrolls I have encountered are:

1. Drakespawn Knights (too high cost and pretty useless)

2. Drakespawn Chariot (Deals no damage, doesn't tank and is too expensive)

3. Black Ark Corsairs (well, worst elves ever)

4. Darkling Covens Meele Infantry (just too expensive compared to for example Witch Elves)

5. Wild Riders (Cushion Cannons?)

 

Needed improvements:

1. +1 Attack for the Riders. Rend -1 for the Drakespawns.

2. +1 to Wound and +1 Damage on the Charge. If charging On a 2+ deal d3 damage to every enemy unit within 1". -1 Rend for the Drakespawn

3. Delete the Cutlass. Change Vicious Blade to Vicious Blades: Range 1", Attacks 2, Hit 4+, wound 4+. Add the Quicksilver Strike Rule of Bleakswords.

4. Drop 20 Points per 10.

5. Either add an additional +1 DMG or -1 Rend to the charge, or both.

 

 

[AaronWilson]

Tamurakhans Horde (definitely spelt that wrong) is a fantastic selection of just generally very bad warscrolls.