Nico Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The one exception to heavy cavalry underperforming is of course Stormcast Eternals.... they now have 5 good Cavalry choices, some of which are exceptionally good (Fulminators and Tempestors and Palladors). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cb_rex Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 3 hours ago, RuneBrush said: Out of the Warscrolls I've played with I would say Mighty Skullcrushers. Bearing in mind each consists of a heavily armoured Blood Warrior riding a Juggernaut of Khorne which is a mount made from living metal and burning blood. Together they are described as an unstoppable force capable of smashing through units like a living battering ram... I just find the actual warscroll rules don't really represent this with a 50/50 chance of causing D3 mortal wounds I totally agree with this, any warscroll with a 50:50 mechanic to do D3 mortal wounds is unsatisfying to play. The Orc Boar Chariot also suffers from this... Awesome I got the charge off, oh it does nothing... I know, I'll throw 2 of them in, together they do 1 mortal wound. The problem is when you roll well it just feels like it's done what it's supposed to. Skulcrushers would be cool and actually feel like super elite heavy cav if they just straight up did 2 mortal wounds on the charge, so keep them pointed highly but make them better which would fit well with the army, to give you the option to go elite or horde with the Bloodbound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I would say that goodness of the warscroll shouldn't be seen so much by it's points. Something might be undercosted and thus very good, even though it would be presenting the model very badly, which I would say is the main factor of the "goodness" of the warscroll. The heavy cavalry is a good example. Skullcrushers and dragon ogres etc. look very tough, but then hit like a wet towel. It wouldn't make them "better" if they would be very cheap. They should be elite and their stats and cost should match that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I dunno man, I have never seen Bonesplitters do well locally, but then nor have I seen much of Moonclan. Again, the Savage Orks are cheap per wound, but they just never do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggesut Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Second on all the Ironjawz Gore Gruntas - I purchased 6, painted them up, used them once, never used them since. At 150 points you're better off with 5 Brutes. It's really unfortunate, cause I want to like them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookiez Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Jamopower said: I would say that goodness of the warscroll shouldn't be seen so much by it's points. Something might be undercosted and thus very good, even though it would be presenting the model very badly, which I would say is the main factor of the "goodness" of the warscroll. The heavy cavalry is a good example. Skullcrushers and dragon ogres etc. look very tough, but then hit like a wet towel. It wouldn't make them "better" if they would be very cheap. They should be elite and their stats and cost should match that. True. I would also rather see a warscroll tweak than a point reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caffran101 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The Squig Gobba - dear lord what were they thinking?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Marius Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I use Skullcrushers regularly and I have to say i find them very well balanced. Their manoeuvrability, resilience and crazy bravery once theyve killed something has seen mine tie up whole flanks for half the game with just 3! Their damage output is steady thanks to the juggers, but get some extra attack buffs on them and they rip through stuff! I like to keep a jugger lord general nearby to buff them with Lord of War when necessary. Im keen to try out the Brass Stampede once i get a third unit painted up. On the wider question, i think some scrolls that look underwhelming are deliberately designed so, but their potential is unlocked within formations or when buffed by heroes. For example my mates blightkings were always a bit meh in the damage output stakes, but give them Daemonic thingy from a Sorceror Lord plus the Lord of War buff and they steamroller through anything. The warscrolls i dont like are ones that are TOO reliable on their own - the Thundertusks shooting attack, the Mourngul, that Sayl guy, the old Azyros and Vexillor deep strike abilities... I much prefer everything to be a bit rubbish, as this makes it more entertaining when something achieves its full potential! I think this has been a key design tenet in AoS from the start, but its starting to slip with all the allegiance ability, artefact and spell stuff, which in my experience has already been reduced down to a few obvious items and abilities with everything else seen as worthless. Id prefer the scrolls kept simple, even if that does make a few look underpowered at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kessler Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Tokyo Nift said: Heavy cavalry all seems super underpowered. Yep, I add Mournfang Cavalry as well. I mean, the models look like armoured giants riding on mournfangs that are bigger than elephants... and they turn out to be quite slow moving light skirmishers with low damage capability. Even if we set the points aside, the models and rules just don't match. And other warscrolls: I don't particularly like the warscroll battallions that give alpha strike ability. It's just boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Chariots are all too weak on charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The black coach. It is very difficult to level up. It is over costed. It takes up a hero slot. Its got a very large base for being so terrible. It leveled up much more consistently in 8e and became ethereal eventually. The level up mechanic should be a 4+ per wizard or a 6+ but die for the result of a casting attempt (IE you roll a 8 on a mystic shield you get 8 dice to roll to try and get some 6+s). It should become a wizard and gain a vampire stat line as it's top tier. It should also be immune to rend as it levels up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_prophecy Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Dragon Ogres. Their Output is laughable. They should have at least the same output as Kournoth Hunters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncas Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Agree with Drakespawn knights being bad warscrolls. They can tank, but are pretty wimpy damage-wise( for how awesome the models are and their cost). Would throw the Drakespawn chariot in there too: I can count on one finger the number of mortal wounds I have done on the charge with that thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I agree that warscrolls that incentivize you to roll 100+ dice are bad design since it makes the game longer and less fun. Making few dice rolls easier to succeed would be much better. (And all my armies tend to have this design. I like horde armies but I hate sorting out hit rolls from 100+ dice.) I also don’t like that shooting seems to get longer and longer threat range which makes it less tactical from both sides i.e. hunters, skyfires etc… And I don’t like the rules design on the thundertusk (especially huskards). I like to see them on the table but I don’t like the 2+ 6 mortal wounds mechanic. So rather than raising the points I would like them to have 4+ and 6 mortal wounds or something. Or maybe it is the threat range that is the problem again, make the range 6”It would be much less obnoxious if it was rolling to hit and not a flat 2+Then you could try to defend yourself via things like Cunning deceived or other shooting to hit modifiers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrexPushups Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Varanguard have perhaps the biggest gap between coolness of models and viability in lists. Terrible Shields (cf normal Chaos Runeshields - let alone Dracoth Knight Shields). Keyword mechanic is cool except it's tied to a 700 point hero who is only viable in DoT, which they cannot join. The list that comes out as 2020 points if you use them as Battleline is infuriating. Even the DoT book doesn't resuscitate them.They would be so much more viable if they could just start the game with a mark. Oh well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Pretty much everything in Scourge Privateers underperforms. Sure it's fairly cheap but it's also not very good at anything. 5+s all over the stat line. Their extra models fleeing never really happens. The chariots are more expensive and probably won't get a shot with their harpoons though a monster's save so the extra damage won't apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I don't have any new units to add - my picks are already in here. Dragon Ogors. So disappointing. As a completely objective voice, who totally doesn't have 25+ old metal DOs (as well as 6 of the shiny new plastic ones), I really wish they were worth fielding. Light and medium chariots. Take up so much real estate on the board, to practically zero effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, amysrevenge said: I don't have any new units to add - my picks are already in here. Dragon Ogors. So disappointing. As a completely objective voice, who totally doesn't have 25+ old metal DOs (as well as 6 of the shiny new plastic ones), I really wish they were worth fielding. Light and medium chariots. Take up so much real estate on the board, to practically zero effect. I've found the Dragon Ogors a little overpowered. A regular I play against has an entire 1K army of, they can deal out some good damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamopower Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 The dragon ogre rule which heals them when the initiative roll is a draw is a brilliant mechnic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Jamopower said: The dragon ogre rule which heals them when the initiative roll is a draw is a brilliant mechnic though. True true. I think if they had their rend improved by 1 across the board, damage for weapon attacks increased by 1 across the board, and a slight increase in points to accommodate, they would be wonderful. As is, they just don't fill any role (I keep comparing them to Bullgors, and choosing the Bullgors in every comparison). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 In fact. What I'd really like to see would be Dragon Ogors given more of a Khorgorath treatment - proper (keyword) Monsters, in units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Skullcrusher. Such a fail. Needs to be scary, they used to strike terror in opponents, nothing more than a piglet now. Those lances shoukd be brutal on the charge, impact damage shoukd be d3 per model at the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamicCalories Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I used some Chaos Knights to add some movement to my Nurgle recently. They just whiffed everything and got torn apart next combat. They need to be a little tougher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sennyo Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 i agree with what everyone is saying about dragon ogors and charoits. i would also like to add the assasin to the list. while his hidden abblilty is great fun and as another hero he can be usful in some objective games, he seem to fail to do what he was designed to do, take out enermy heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taketheskull Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 1. Nurglings - 15 wounds for 80 points and can only be removed in lumps of 5 wounds, no save. Sounds o.k. but their damage output is zero so there opponent is always hitting them with full strength. They aren't even battleline. The Nurgles Deluge formation makes them much more interest and useful, but it is not for match play. 2. Most Khorne Heroes - sure they offer buffs and it makes Khorne armies more interesting to play than in previous editions of Warhammer, BUT, much like a Mighty Skullcrusher, they hit like a damp squib! These guys are the mortal champions of the dread god of bloody slaughter who have risen to their position through a life of relentless butchery and you look at their damage output and think, "meh". Booooooo... to whom ever wrote those rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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