Terry Pike Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 On 08/05/2016 at 11:25 PM, yarrickson said: 30 points is still too cheap for the Brotherhood of the Great Bolts. Rolled it up vs my (fairly competitive) chaos army and it effectively takes it off in 2 turns. You know this 30 points is in addition to the cost of all the models? I don't think you can actually fit this formation in 100 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarrickson Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Terry Pike said: You know this 30 points is in addition to the cost of all the models? I don't think you can actually fit this formation in 100 points? 72 points for the minimum size formation. 85 for the maximum. If you take the minimum size formation you can still fit in a stardrake as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Pike Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 What do you actually get in the minimum size? 30% of your army total on a formation seems like you get a small force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarrickson Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Terry Pike said: What do you actually get in the minimum size? 30% of your army total on a formation seems like you get a small force Oh the force is tiny. 85 points as the example gets you the Formation, with 1 Celestant Prime, 3 lord Relictors and 3 vexilors, leaves 15 points for something that scores in whatever the mission is or something like a bastiladon or hurricanum that is just good on its own. The brotherhood player only has 2 deployment drops, nearly guaranteeing choice of first turn. Turn 1 the brotherhood player rolls 6d3 for number of bolts, each of which multiplies into d3 or d6 mortal wounds (because he brought the prime down turn 1 so there's no downside to the bolts roll) . so the formation does between 6 and 108 mortal wounds in that first turn. That total does not include the additional mortal wounds caused by the cometstrike sceptre, the comet banners on the vexilor and the mortal wounds caused by whatever 15 points you added at the start. Turn 2, unless you kill a model or two at range, or are the king of alpha strikes the same thing happens again, less the comet banners but plus the relictors mortal wound prayer. Honestly, roll this up against yourselves or have a mate use/proxy it. Its a twenty minute game that needs some very bad dice rolls to not break the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Pike Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 I'll check it out after work and see what the bolt shooting attacks are actually meant to do, as I don't know how they are generated, who fires them, at what range etc. I didn't help with the pool costs on the latest update so haven't read the formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 It's basically an Uber-Kroak - infinite range, no line of sight mortal wound spam. I can only think that this formation would be appropriate in an all-day massive scenario game, e.g. where these heroes have to hold out ( Rorke's Drift style) against a near infinite swarm of opponents. The only tournament it would be appropriate in would be a 40k tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Agree with the above. I thought/hoped at 30 it was effectively comped out, but it seems not. It's completely dull and a total negative play experience. Not saying it would necessarily do well at events or anything, due to lack of scoring units, but still! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 You could sideboard most of it (leaving Prime Time in the main army of 100 as he's usually pretty useful) and use it for an autowin on the scenarios where only heroes (and monsters) can score (e.g. Battleplan 1 of SCGT). Virtually guaranteed to get the first turn and then just spam all the bolts at the enemy heroes - game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Pike Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 Read the formation for this now and fits nicely with the Rain of Stars shooting spam already available to Stormcast. why do they need so many dull non-game rules, take a look at Bloodbound or Orruks and you can see where all the super over powered rules are ending up In a few months time even I'll have jumped on the Stormcast bandwagon and I love my chaos lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblinclub Posted May 12, 2016 Author Share Posted May 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said: Agree with the above. I thought/hoped at 30 it was effectively comped out, but it seems not. It's completely dull and a total negative play experience. Not saying it would necessarily do well at events or anything, due to lack of scoring units, but still! If it's that pants, in terms of it's chances of doing anything at a tournament, does it matter that it's not comped out? Surely nobody is going to take it knowing they'll be spectacularly outnumbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 11 hours ago, hobgoblinclub said: If it's that pants, in terms of it's chances of doing anything at a tournament, does it matter that it's not comped out? Surely nobody is going to take it knowing they'll be spectacularly outnumbered. For exactly the reasons posted above by Nico. Due to the sideboard you can bring this formation in where appropriate or easily switch out to a more regular build. I think it would be acceptable to just flat out ban this one. I know that lays down a precedent that perhaps Russ isn't keen on though (ie full comp over just points). After playing Fyreslayers I definitely think maybe 7-8 for 10 of the basic bros is more reasonable than 5 for 5? The characters and elites seemed ok. Ironjaws stuff all seemed fine tbh. Magma Dragon seems cheap at 25 and that was with me using it. Even at 30 I'd probably still consider it worth taking - but mostly because it adds some real power to the Ironjaws which are pretty middle of the road in general I guess. Thanks for all the work @Russ Veal and co! x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Quote Magma Dragon seems cheap at 25 and that was with me using it. Even at 30 I'd probably still consider it worth taking - but mostly because it adds some real power to the Ironjaws which are pretty middle of the road in general I guess. Couldn't agree more. I suggested 36 PCs for this one. It's an absolute superdaddy. Movement 16, so a first turn charge is possible on an 8. 20 Wounds and a 4+ save. Anthing that hurts it in the Combat Phase takes D3 mortal wounds - much better than typical mortal wound aura abilities. The big one is the breath attack - 18 inch range, so it can threaten a unit 34 inches away. Hits on a 2+. D6 mortal wounds or 2D6 for a block of 10. No wait - the big one is FOUR jaw attacks with -3 rend, D6 damage; and 8 attacks causing 2 damage (which makes it choppier than a Dread Saurian, Malekith - second only to the Rogue Idol). Of course, it can also capture objectives in any scenario. Maybe 32 or 34 PCs. The new Warscrolls coming out of Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower; and Shar'Tor would be reasons for another quick update to the pool costs please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Sorry if I'm obviously missing something here without the SCGT pack in front of me but are unit sizes capped, and if so is there a diff in cap between core and non? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 30 wounds or 40 if pool cost is 5 for 10 or less. No difference core or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 But the question i am thinking about regarding fyreslayers since I know you run them is you might want 3 units to fill a formation requirement but since they come in fives and you are can only in SCGT take 6 scrolls can you only run them 10 each. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 8 minutes ago, Andreas said: But the question i am thinking about regarding fyreslayers since I know you run them is you might want 3 units to fill a formation requirement but since they come in fives and you are can only in SCGT take 6 scrolls can you only run them 10 each. :-( That's a good point actually and perhaps another reason to up them to 10's. Of course there's a valid argument for 5's having benefits (personally I'd like to see Ardboyz coming in 5's)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 thanks for the cap info...but wait...I need to check the doc because I think there's a misunderstanding somewhere. So, is the correct then, formation aside for the moment, SCGT means for core I can't take more than 6 units of Vulkites (min 10 in each) or I can only take 6 x 5pt. pool choices, so 30 vulkites total in army? We've been using it as types. Just wanna get this cleared up. thx;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 As of now 30 vulkites max from my understanding but that crippels a fyreslayer only army so dont think your opponents would mind you having your two units of 20. But Russ please change them to 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Maybe it is, but that just seems way off from the spirit of having infantry. Plus we all would have been doing it wrong here if 30 was the max in the entire army deployed. I'll wait for some confirmation but that would be good to know. However, I doubt we would keep that cap in our games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 To clarify max 4 units since they are core. So you options now are pretty much One unit of 30. Two units 20 and 10. Three units of 10. Or the useless 10, 10, 5, 5. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, Andreas said: To clarify max 4 units since they are core. So you options now are pretty much One unit of 30. Two units 20 and 10. Three units of 10. Or the useless 10, 10, 5, 5. :-) heh. yeah, that last option would be useless. For the rest....Eh, um, I don't really care for that to be honest. But will be good to know, plus we can always change some stuff for local play:) Added: looking at the rules packet now and I admit I don't read it that way. Now I'm really curious Seems like I could take up to 6 units of Vulkites but each must have the minimum (5) and no more than 40 (they are core) wounds per unit, which would be 40 models. So warscrolls and pool choices being different things. My reading of the helpful FAQ makes me more certain and there was where I saw the max unit size but wounds (in this case 1-1). **SCGT2016 Pool Document Each Warscroll has a minimum unit size. For each pool choice selected you receive the minimum number of models from that Warscroll. For example Blood warriors are 5 pool choices. Their minimum unit size according to their Warscroll is 5. So to take 5 Blood warriors in your Army, it costs 5 pool choices. You may only take a maximum 6 of each warscroll in your Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Read the deployed army part there it states that you can only deploy your 6 min scrolls in 3 units or 4 if they are core. But someone please chip in if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veterannoob Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Just now, Andreas said: Read the deployed army there it States that you can only deployed your 6 min scrolls in 3 units or 4 if they are core. But someone please chip in if I am wrong. yeah, as with other times re: AoS reading the same words differently, lol. I hope I'm not wrong in this instance though because it would be a shame to deprive the mortal realms of extra Fyreslayer bodies running about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThereIsOnlyJoe Posted May 18, 2016 Share Posted May 18, 2016 There's plenty of broken ****** in AoS if you go looking for it. So either do or don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobgoblinclub Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 If people go looking for the broken, don't go looking for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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