thediceabide Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Hey guys, I'm surprised I hadn't seen this bit of interesting news on TGA anywhere. The background is, someone was wondering if it was intentional that Behemoth was left out the note in the Beastclaw Raiders for Stonehorn/Thundertusk Beast Riders. Most people (like myself) assumed that Battleline was appended with their natural Behemoth role, but someone got around to asking GW on Facebook about it and got this response: That didn't sway me personally, I've worked at GW, I know how those questions historically were answered. It did however prompt me to take a look at all the other Behomoths with notes to change Battlefield Role (they're all Leaders, like the Phoenix), I did notice that they said that they became "Leader, Behemoth" and never just said "Leader." Then came the talk if GW coming out with their own army building app, and I figured that would put the discussion to rest... In the new Azyr army builder app, if you're making a Beastclaw Raiders army, the Beast Riders only count towards your Battleline, and not your Behemoth Limit, though the app does count the Leaders against the Behemoth Limit appropriately. This has me pretty well convinced that Stonehorn and Thundertusk Beastriders count as Battleline and not Behemoths, when playing Beastclaw Raiders. The only argument against it would be that you think the Generals Handbook notes are a mistake, the GW customer service rep is wrong, and their own army builder app is incorrect. So, what do you guys think of the future of BCR running 5-6 Behemoths in 2000 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I mean I don't think it's super competitive compared to other options but it's thematic and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I don't have my General's Handbook to hand, but does the rule about cover apply to Monsters (keyword) or Behemoth (battlefield role)? Pretty interesting if it's the latter. All this said though... 21 hours ago, thediceabide said: the Generals Handbook notes are a mistake, the GW customer service rep is wrong, and their own army builder app is incorrect. ...Could feasibly be correct! Haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forestreveries Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I don't have my General's Handbook to hand, but does the rule about cover apply to Monsters (keyword) or Behemoth (battlefield role)? Pretty interesting if it's the latter. All this said though... ...Could feasibly be correct! Haha!Monsters. Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Tomlin Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 6 minutes ago, Forestreveries said: Monsters. Good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 8 hours ago, Beau said: I mean I don't think it's super competitive compared to other options but it's thematic and fun. Not super competitive, but does create some interesting options... I'm sure someone will run 3 Thundertusk Beastriders and 3 Thundertusk Huskards at some point (someone with too many friends?) 1 hour ago, Chris Tomlin said: All this said though... ...Could feasibly be correct! Haha! Hahaha, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be surprised if it changed in GHB2, which is why I'm waiting before I go jump on some more Beastriders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Dragon Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Allegiance: DestructionLeadersFrostlord on Stonehorn (460)Frostlord on Stonehorn (460)BattlelineStonehorn Beastriders (360)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineStonehorn Beastriders (360)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineStonehorn Beastriders (360)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineUnitsTotal: 2000/2000 Not competitive, but pretty 'themey', and exactly 2000 points. I looked at exactly this point when GHB came out last year, and after reading and rereading the exact wording, and talking to others, reluctantly concluded that they would be both Batteline AND Behemoth - just like Leaders AND Behemoth for other units. However, if this is an official ruling then...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Dragon Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Or how about this - make your opponents fume! Allegiance: DestructionLeadersHuskard on Thundertusk (340)Huskard on Thundertusk (340)Huskard on Thundertusk (340)BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineUnitsTotal: 1980/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Soup Dragon said: I looked at exactly this point when GHB came out last year, and after reading and rereading the exact wording, and talking to others, reluctantly concluded that they would be both Batteline AND Behemoth - just like Leaders AND Behemoth for other units. However, if this is an official ruling then...... I was on the same boat, though for the models that become " Leader, Behemoth" the note does explicitly list both, i.e. Arachnarok Spider's note is "Leader, Behemoth if carrying a Spiderfang Grot Shaman." 1 hour ago, Soup Dragon said: Or how about this - make your opponents fume! Allegiance: DestructionLeadersHuskard on Thundertusk (340)Huskard on Thundertusk (340)Huskard on Thundertusk (340)BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineUnitsTotal: 1980/2000 Yeah, I like to call that the Zero-Friends Express list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beau Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Soup Dragon said: Or how about this - make your opponents fume! Allegiance: DestructionLeadersHuskard on Thundertusk (340)Huskard on Thundertusk (340)Huskard on Thundertusk (340)BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineThundertusk Beastriders (320)- Beastclaw Raiders BattlelineUnitsTotal: 1980/2000 That's a lot of ranged mortal woundage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 One day the army of Exalted Greater Daemon of Nurgle and 170 Plaguebearers will come get those Thundertusks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 The only rules argument to counter is the new Escalation in the FAQ talks explicitly about units which are both Battleline and Behemoths. If this isn't the BCR they are talking about, what other units are both? Perhaps food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Dragon Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 31 minutes ago, bottle said: The only rules argument to counter is the new Escalation in the FAQ talks explicitly about units which are both Battleline and Behemoths. If this isn't the BCR they are talking about, what other units are both? Perhaps food for thought. That's a good spot Bottle. I guess that settles it really. An official Errata trumps an opinion on Facebook every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 7 hours ago, bottle said: The only rules argument to counter is the new Escalation in the FAQ talks explicitly about units which are both Battleline and Behemoths. If this isn't the BCR they are talking about, what other units are both? Perhaps food for thought. Sure, though it says nothing about either of the BCR units, it's just a catch all phrase to cover a rules combination that could exist. I would say that the rules on the actual unit, verified by their own army builder, is a bit more relevant to them than a generic phrase that doesn't specifically indicate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 6 hours ago, Soup Dragon said: That's a good spot Bottle. I guess that settles it really. An official Errata trumps an opinion on Facebook every time Settles what? The Errata doesn't mention BCR in any way, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottle Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Yeah, it's just something interesting to raise and consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 5 minutes ago, bottle said: Yeah, it's just something interesting to raise and consider. Yeah fortunately a 5 Behemoth list isn't that good competitively... neither is 6 Thundertusks for that matter, but it will make for an ugly spoiler list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper77 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Haha alot of hostlities about this thing all over the internet, but on TGA all is Well I got told by a friend that they will be ruled as Behomoths and I do think he will be right. Personaly I think it would be kinda fun to be able to play battalions like Torrbad not only with bere minimum. And enerybody is saying its not to competetive anyway?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thediceabide Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, Jesper77 said: Haha alot of hostlities about this thing all over the internet, but on TGA all is Well I got told by a friend that they will be ruled as Behomoths and I do think he will be right. Personaly I think it would be kinda fun to be able to play battalions like Torrbad not only with bere minimum. And enerybody is saying its not to competetive anyway?? Fortunately the discussion here has been much more civil. That said there isn't much going in favor of them still counting as Behemoths other than it "feeling right." I mean, GW has failed in every instance to say that they're still Behemoths, in the book, their customer service, and their app... I know that I'll personally be waiting for the GHB2 before I add any more Beastriders to my collection, but it would be nice to have the option for the sake of having more list options. Ultimately, it's not that great anyhow, the 3-4 huskard list plus grots is still far more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesper77 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Yes, its far from the best destruction list but a fun and thematic one under the right circumstances and I will also wait before adding more "battlelines" to my army would Love to play something like this; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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