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Unofficial Bretonnian Battletome  

242 members have voted

  1. 1. Would a full unofficial Bretonnian Battletome for AoS interest you?

    • Yes! I have something to offer for this project so i will notify you!
      16
    • Yes! I would love to see this and really hope it gets done!
      141
    • Sure, hope it happens.
      44
    • Nah, too complicated...
      6
    • No I am fine with things as they are.
      21
    • NO! DEATH TO THE LADY!
      22


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Hello Everyone! 

My name is Henin and I hail from the lands of the Tomb Kings! :P If you have not heard, there is an incredible project going on for tomb kings where the TK are getting their own fan-made, unofficial Battletome, complete with artwork and lore as well as some unofficial additional rules put together by the community to play for fun with friends: http://theendlessdeserts.blogspot.com/p/what-are-endless-deserts_8.html 

I have come to love the new world of AoS thanks to this project (personally). I may not be completely happy with the lore but I enjoy the game and love the dynamics and creative encouragement it has. With that said, I keep hoping to see a similar event from the Bretonnian community, but have yet to see this. (based on my research, I could be wrong and if I am please point me in that direction xD [seriously do please])

My brother and I started playing and collecting warhammer models some time before the End Times began. When they began the changes, me and my brother were hit hard since we had barely just finished getting the hang of the game and then suddenly it does a 180. All our efforts were crushed especially since both our armies seemed to be thrown out by GW (Him playing Brets and me playing TK). For me it is not simple to remember and learn such a complicated game as it was in warhammer 8th edition. Though, eventually I gave AoS a chance and came to love it, but honestly it was thanks to the efforts in the TK community that I now came to love it. 

I really want to somehow do the same for my brother and the Brets. I want to try to put together some kind of team and put effort into creating something like what the TK have for their own game for fun! To support the community. Put together an AoS Bretonnian Battletome with all kinds of fun stuff for all to use and enjoy~

So please, if this is something you are hoping to see, and/or have something to offer such as artistic skills, game knowledge, photography skills with epic models and anything at all that can help get this project in motion, please comment or message me. I want to see what the community has to say and if their is any desire for this to happen. 

Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas? (be sincere please)

Best,

-Henin

 

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As someone whose first warhammer love was Bretonnia I would be overjoyed to see this happen :)

A great opportunity here (background-wise) would be to explore the lives of the "regular humans" often asked about. Unlike the Tomb Kings (who have a fairly unique society that could be brought forward into AoS relatively unchanged) I think a Bretonnian tome might work by looking at human society more broadly, using their generic fantasy status as a template for a variety of kingdoms (perhaps with their own quirks like Sylvaneth Wargroves or Stormcast Chambers?) rather than trying to come up with a "New Bretonnia". You could do a lot of interesting stuff with this - perhaps even looking at some of the people who were left behind when Sigmar abandoned the realms and using that as a starting point to explore some of the questions raised by the End Times (and never really given the treatment they deserved) regarding honour, faith and identity...

Just my few humble thoughts, anyway. Looking forward to see what you do with this project!

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6 hours ago, Davariel said:

As someone whose first warhammer love was Bretonnia I would be overjoyed to see this happen :)

A great opportunity here (background-wise) would be to explore the lives of the "regular humans" often asked about. Unlike the Tomb Kings (who have a fairly unique society that could be brought forward into AoS relatively unchanged) I think a Bretonnian tome might work by looking at human society more broadly, using their generic fantasy status as a template for a variety of kingdoms (perhaps with their own quirks like Sylvaneth Wargroves or Stormcast Chambers?) rather than trying to come up with a "New Bretonnia". You could do a lot of interesting stuff with this - perhaps even looking at some of the people who were left behind when Sigmar abandoned the realms and using that as a starting point to explore some of the questions raised by the End Times (and never really given the treatment they deserved) regarding honour, faith and identity...

Just my few humble thoughts, anyway. Looking forward to see what you do with this project!

Thank you for your comment!

Yes! I want to look at everything in detail and see what might have been left behind or what might have not been answered in the End Times to put together something that is unique to the culture that is Bretonnia. From what I understood there were things revealed in End Times or in the transition to AoS in Lore that the Lady is some sort of Goddess that used to be an Elf Goddess or something of the sort. That is something I would like to explore further as one of the options and see where it could lead. They are very loyal to their kings and the Lady. I plan on further continuing my research on them since I am not as familiar with their lore as undead.

I am hoping I find a couple more people that can compliment the group in creating this because I have limited skills. I am capable of designing and creating digital art, but it only goes so far. So if you know of anyone who might be interested please let them know of this project.

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This is great. Bretonnia really needs it. The order allegiance ability is pretty useless for them. Their banners give the nobles rerolls already and Louen makes them immune to battleshock so they really need an upgrade in that way.

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On 3/3/2017 at 10:53 AM, Oppenheimer said:

This is great. Bretonnia really needs it. The order allegiance ability is pretty useless for them. Their banners give the nobles rerolls already and Louen makes them immune to battleshock so they really need an upgrade in that way.

Thank you. I feel like Bretonnia Had so much potential for new cool and original content/lore/rules unique to them but they never had a chance.

After reading some more I read that during the end times the lady had a sort of realm where she created specifically for the brets and in the apocolypse she had her daughter bring all the remaining brets to her new created realm and saved what was left of Bretonnia. I feel this is one key part in Lore that can help forge this Battletome background.

On the conversation of the King. It seems he did "die" but that is not a problem the way I see it, if we are going to try to stick with lore as best as we could. I am merely brainstorming here so other ideas and opinions are welcome. The same way TK solved the problem of "Settra is Incapacitated" issue, I think can be done for the Brets and their king. By name, it will be the "next king" or a viable replacement for the lore but the rules will be literally the same because rulewise it is still the original king. As shown here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IzQocsfEp_WXFPbXFFVXNHVG8/view

just an Idea anyway to get things going and maybe get people enticed and understand what We might be going for this project.

Hope That I get someone to join the team soon. If I might ask someone to help me in the right direction to spread the word on the Brets main forum, where to post it there, please do!

Edited by henin
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I don't have a bretonnian army but I think this is brilliant. The fact the TK is coming out is great! I always loved the TK and was kinda planning one. This may allow that to happen.  Although I have nothing to kick in, I completely support this. What it may mean for future armies of the realm also lies open whether it's Tillian or maybe Cathay, estallian or such. Great idea!

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1 hour ago, henin said:

Thank you. I feel like Bretonnia Had so much potential for new cool and original content/lore/rules unique to them but they never had a chance.

After reading some more I read that during the end times the lady had a sort of realm where she created specifically for the brets and in the apocolypse she had her daughter bring all the remaining brets to her new created realm and saved what was left of Bretonnia. I feel this is one key part in Lore that can help forge this Battletome background.

On the conversation of the King. It seems he did "die" but that is not a problem the way I see it, if we are going to try to stick with lore as best as we could. I am merely brainstorming here so other ideas and opinions are welcome. The same way TK solved the problem of "Settra is Incapacitated" issue, I think can be done for the Brets and their king. By name, it will be the "next king" or a viable replacement for the lore but the rules will be literally the same because rulewise it is still the original king. As shown here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IzQocsfEp_WXFPbXFFVXNHVG8/view

just an Idea anyway to get things going and maybe get people enticed and understand what We might be going for this project.

Hope That I get someone to join the team soon. If I might ask someone to help me in the right direction to spread the word on the Brets main forum, where to post it there, please do!

The Bretonnia pocket dimension had the souls of Bretonnians in it so they could easily have had Louen reborn. After all Drycha and Durthu died but are back. Heck, Alarielle, Mannfred, Nagash, Tyrion and Teclis died. Death doesn't seem to matter much to the writers of AoS fluff so it shouldn't stop you either.

That said even a genetic "Free People's" version of Bretonnia that doesn't specifically reference their old lore would still be fine with me.

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Durthu isn't back FYI. Not sure about several of the others either.

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4 hours ago, Aezeal said:

Durthu isn't back FYI. Not sure about several of the others either.

I suppose not technically but his spiritual idea is and so I'm saying you could do the same thing with Bretonnians.

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I actually think focusing on Gilles rather than Louen would be the way to go if you're looking for a "legendary king" background figure.

Not only is he the founder of Bretonnia and seemingly immortal, but his fate in the End Times was left very ambiguous (mostly because like many other plot threads it seemed to be forgotten... :(). IIRC he and Abhorash were last mentioned as leading the last of the Brets and Blood Knights to defend a place that might even survive the end of the world... or something to that effect! Needless to say it seems possible - or even likely - he could still be around in the Age of Sigmar.

I think he'd work well as a background figure along the lines of Settra in the Tomb Kings project or Ushoran to the Flesh-Eaters, better than Louen anyway. Much as I love Louen's character and model, he met a fairly definite end and was generally tied to Bretonnia's present rather than being connected to the kingdom's very essence like Gilles.

Going that route, you could come up with some cool stories where Gilles wanders the realms as the Green Knight. In the darkest times of the Age of Chaos he appears to those in need, riding out of the mists and shadows on a steed whose eyes glow with mystical power. The poor souls abandoned by their gods and left at the mercy of Chaos can only stare at this unexpected salvation as he shields them from their foes without a thought for his own safety. His sword gleams with holy light and his eyes hold only cold contempt as he cuts down those who would wreak harm upon the realms of men until none remain. Then, as soon as the battle is done, he vanishes into the mists from whence he came, inspiring countless others to follow his example...

Okay, I'm the one getting inspired now xD

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Problem with Brettonia is simple - army doesn't have any place in AoS fluff considering, I like idea of a Green Knight but still as a whole there is no place for Bretonnia. Maybe when or if Araloth Elves get a Battletome there will be some kind of Bretonnian ghost units. 

Also problem is how to make in line with other Battletomes. Usually Battletomes use limited number of units/characters and that's what I hated about Tomb King unoffical Battletome - too many units and too much flexibility when GW idea is clear considering brand new faction Battletomes - 4-5 new units/leaders + 3-5 older units/leaders. Look at Sylvaneth or rumored Duardin. So unless Bretonnia Battletome is limited to few units it won't work considering how Battletomes are constructed. 

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16 minutes ago, DantePQ said:

Also problem is how to make in line with other Battletomes. Usually Battletomes use limited number of units/characters and that's what I hated about Tomb King unoffical Battletome - too many units and too much flexibility when GW idea is clear considering brand new faction Battletomes - 4-5 new units/leaders + 3-5 older units/leaders. Look at Sylvaneth or rumored Duardin. So unless Bretonnia Battletome is limited to few units it won't work considering how Battletomes are constructed. 

But Seraphon have loads of options yoo, right? I believe they only lost a tiny number of units as Lizardmen.

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Yep but Seraphon didn't get post GH Battletome with items and lores. 

All new Battletomes follow the same pattern (even DoT which is bigger but there is no rules for Chaos Warriors for example) with mix of older and brand new units :

- items, magic lore

- certain playstyle 

- less flexibility in army building considering number of units, but those units may have differents uses in certain Battalions. 

 

I think it is much easier to balance Battletomes that way. I doubt we will see huge Battletomes with huge number of units. 

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3 hours ago, DantePQ said:

Yep but Seraphon didn't get post GH Battletome with items and lores. 

All new Battletomes follow the same pattern (even DoT which is bigger but there is no rules for Chaos Warriors for example) with mix of older and brand new units :

- items, magic lore

- certain playstyle 

- less flexibility in army building considering number of units, but those units may have differents uses in certain Battalions. 

 

I think it is much easier to balance Battletomes that way. I doubt we will see huge Battletomes with huge number of units. 

That is true sir! Well, with the Tomb Kings Battletome still not released yet, I cannot say much of whats on it literally, but I did help in putting my own efforts into the project and know exactly what the Battletome's main goal to do: officially it is merely an expansion of the microscopic lore that the TK have in AoS and taking the official legacy warscrolls and putting them together in an aesthetically up-to-date manner :) In addition to some fun rules that will give them Time of War rules, battleplans, Battalions, all based off the other Battletomes and some fan-made rules bringing back old models that we love and have a lot of fun with. This all was simply started as small fan-rules that Tyler started making for fun to play with his own army but has incorporated and grown to be a community effort of sorts and together with some artists and other members of the TK commuity he has taken on this project to put a home for his TK and all others who wish to have the deserts as their home too.

Here I wish to do the same:

-Develop Lore for Bretonnia

-aestetically update all current warscrolls of bretonnia

-develope some time of war, battleplan, and allegiance rules.

-incorporate some fan rules of models that were lost together as a community

-but above all I just want to do something to support my brother really :) and therefore the brets because I hold them close to my heart as well!

So you are correct my friend! Officially the goal is to merely work with the battletomes already out and bring Brets into AoS as a true force that (suposedly) is (potentially) stil around in Lore (possibly as much as tk was lol)

But yes this is merely a fun project for the fun and love of the hobby and this army :D 

 

7 hours ago, Davariel said:

I actually think focusing on Gilles rather than Louen would be the way to go if you're looking for a "legendary king" background figure.

...

Okay, I'm the one getting inspired now xD

Thank you for all that, It was actually very inspiring and informative! This is exactly what I am hoping to achieve!

I just went through the Sylvaneth book and saw how they handled Durthu, and read that it is not Durthu himself in literal form, but rather some kind of "tree lord" taking on his essence and soul to be as he was. Though, in rules he seems to be pretty much Durthu. (anyone care to make the comparison?)

I think Focusing on Gilles might be another way to handle the king. 

I was also thinking of the Pocket the Lady had set for the Brets, I feel it can be used as their home-realm among the world of AoS. Which as such could also (in lore) incorporate anyone else who resided with the lady's favor, animals, forests, sylvaneth, elves and those of the like. More brainstorming to get the thoughts going :) thoughts? Opinions?

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Yeah but waht about Lady of the Lake, didn't End Times and AoS fluff changed Bretonnia fluff too much to recover it in any form ? (unlike TK)

There is no reason for Questing Knights, Grail Knights,Green Knight, Errand Knights,Lady wizards etc. to live in AoS setting, 

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On 05/03/2017 at 0:39 PM, DantePQ said:

Yeah but waht about Lady of the Lake, didn't End Times and AoS fluff changed Bretonnia fluff too much to recover it in any form ? (unlike TK)

There is no reason for Questing Knights, Grail Knights,Green Knight, Errand Knights,Lady wizards etc. to live in AoS setting, 

I already discussed earlier how much potential the revelations in the plot had for creating new fluff for Bretonnians coming from that pocket dimension so I won't go into that again in response here.

But, I do want to say that considering that you can do anything you want in AoS due to the high fantasy aspect of the setting I think that it's even easier to fit any crazy fluff reasons for armies you want in it.

I've actually seen Bretonnia like models referenced in the lore already. One of the short stories talked about a kingdom under attack by Khorne that had knights in shining armour and bright colours pennants and also had descriptions of men at arms.

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On 3/6/2017 at 2:33 PM, Oppenheimer said:

 

 

On 3/5/2017 at 0:39 PM, DantePQ said:

 

Precisely~ as things are and with the microscopic lore in AoS that theoretically could belong to the Bretonnians, there is plenty to work with and in the end, AoS is designed to be able to literally create anything you want no matter what it is, and it will fit somehow. But of course I am not like that so I try to make things fit as best I could with this type of thing because its funner that way and feels more right personally. I prefer to build this as a community and not make it something too personal in that sense. (Like I don't want to include personal OCs or anything like that.)

UPDATE:

I have been busy lately but I will be coming back with new ideas to put out some time this weekend or earlier (hopefully) But I will be looking into exploring the lore that exists in better detail.

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from my admittedly limited experience/knowledge of Bretonia I'd suggest designing them around the massively terrifying charge of expensive knights.  However the Brets have a very large Peasant force so I'd give their cav some sort of bonus like when a mob of peasants charge into a combat the knights are already in the knights can retreat before combat.  Or something that encourages synergy between these two disparate parts of their army.  

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I have an interest, but unfortunately not much time. I am knowledgeable in Brets.. were my favorite and most played army from 4th edition (1994) through End Times. Still have my classic and current armies too. This wouldn't be cool to see.

- Cedric

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

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I'm pretty sure the reason the new 100% Age of Sigmar factions battletomes have so little unit  roster its because... well. They don't have more. Look at Seraphon and Stormcast. I'm pretty sure trought the years, Ironjawz, Disciples of Tzeentch, Bloodbound and Sylvaneth will have expansive unit rosters.

The initial idea with Age of Sigmar was to have a ton of subfactions but as you see with the Ghouls Courts, the Disciples of Tzeentch (Tzeentch Acolites+Tzeentch Daemons), Stormcast (Extremis Chamber+Other Chambers), etc... its obvius that GW has changed that idea and its going back to Big factions with huge unit rosters. If not, why the have merged sub-factions in the bigger faction of a battletome?

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It’s good to see there is an interest in keeping Bretonnia alive.  Having a large force of them sitting at home, I too would love to see this develop.

Sadly, due to time constraints, I have been unable to continue my own background story for why my Knights exist.  But I thought I would share them.  Just in the off chance you can use even a piece of it.

So…

 

Brief History

Gilles survived the fall of the old world and now rides through the mortal realms seeking out those who have survived Chaos and teaching them of the return of Sigmar.  Whenever enough survivors are banded together, he bestows to them a magical Grail, said to contain powerful and ancient magic.  In essence, they are relics of the old world.

These Grails are used by Enchantresses to cast magical spells or to bestow the blessings of Sigmar on their chosen warriors.

 

Belief System

Bretonnians (May replace name), are devoted followers of Sigmar.  They see him as the true god of humanity. 

They view the realm of Azyr as a Viking would Valhalla, believing that through devoting their lives to Sigmars fight, they will upon death be rewarded by becoming one of Sigmars Eternal Warriors where they will serve him once more until the end of time.

 

Knights of the Grail Wardens (Grail Knights).

The Grails bestowed upon the Bretonnians, are used in a drinking ceremonies, where warriors who have proven themselves worthy of remembrance, drink from the Grail and devote their life and soul to Sigmar.  Once a Knight has partaken in the Ceremony, he becomes a Knight of the Grail Wardens, protectors of the realms of man and sworn enemy to Chaos. 

 

I know it’s not a huge amount to go on, and it does stray from the ways of the old Bretonnians, but it could come in use. 

My vision of the Bretonnians is a mobile crusading force who live in vast tents and constantly stay on the move.

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Heraldry is important. For painters it may just be a Paint Scheme, but it was important in Bretonnia, and should be for hobbyists.

Some colors have symbolism or meaning (Green in Bretonnia involved something spectral). There's the rule of tincture (no colors can be placed on one another, no metals on metals). Divisions (How Leoncoeur's red and blue are allowed to touch despite appearing to violate the Rule of Tincture), Charges, Arrangements, etc.

Here is a relatively quick page on Blazonry.

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I am not the best writer, but I love the lore and thematic elements that make Bretonnia Bretonnia. 

Check out the roundtable-bretonnia.org. There plenty of artists and Bretonnia nuts on there who I'm sure would lend a hand in putting this together.

 

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^ I'll second this. We Bret fanatics would love to help out with a fan-battletome. I already downloaded and am explaining the one Auticus made, it was very well-done. :)

Mantic already used us in making their not-Bretonnians when AoS arrived so we'd love to help with actual descendants of Bretonnia. 

I myself am a humongous fan of the AoS background and bite into any lore I can get my hands on. (Sigmar bless Shinros and his lore threads. :))

There is sooo much potential. Floating palaces for a king's flying armies where the lower classes live on the perilous bottom of the island, castles built into the bones of a country-sized beast slain by a great hero and using holy magic to seal it from being used by ambitious necromancers, cursed kingdoms that keep appearing and vanishing into mist send out their knights to find precious artifacts to try and lift their curse, the list is endless with AoS!

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On 3/15/2017 at 11:04 AM, DWCScubaSteve said:

It’s good to see there is an interest in keeping Bretonnia alive.  Having a large force of them sitting at home, I too would love to see this develop.

Sadly, due to time constraints, I have been unable to continue my own background story for why my Knights exist.  But I thought I would share them.  Just in the off chance you can use even a piece of it.

So… (etc.)

...is a mobile crusading force who live in vast tents and constantly stay on the move.

Oh wow yes thank you for sharing. I am considering all things to incorporate into the battletome. I note down and save everything I am offered to have under consideration for further development so yes thank you! I really like that as one of the groups of bretonnians that exists? 

On 3/12/2017 at 11:30 PM, Galas said:

I'm pretty sure the reason the new 100% Age of Sigmar factions battletomes have so little unit  roster its because... well. They don't have more. Look at Seraphon and Stormcast. I'm pretty sure trought the years, Ironjawz, Disciples of Tzeentch, Bloodbound and Sylvaneth will have expansive unit rosters.

The initial idea with Age of Sigmar was to have a ton of subfactions but as you see with the Ghouls Courts, the Disciples of Tzeentch (Tzeentch Acolites+Tzeentch Daemons), Stormcast (Extremis Chamber+Other Chambers), etc... its obvius that GW has changed that idea and its going back to Big factions with huge unit rosters. If not, why the have merged sub-factions in the bigger faction of a battletome?

This is precicely what I felt! I agree with you. This is one of the reasons why I am more motivated for the future of the armies in AoS and inspired with high hopes for this project.

On 3/16/2017 at 8:47 PM, SuperHappyTime said:

Heraldry is important. For painters it may just be a Paint Scheme, but it was important in Bretonnia, and should be for hobbyists.

Some colors have symbolism or meaning (Green in Bretonnia involved something spectral). There's the rule of tincture (no colors can be placed on one another, no metals on metals). Divisions (How Leoncoeur's red and blue are allowed to touch despite appearing to violate the Rule of Tincture), Charges, Arrangements, etc.

Here is a relatively quick page on Blazonry.

Yes and this is something else I want to consider with their potential lore or culture. I want to maintain the core essence of everything that makes Bretonnia, Brettonia.

On 3/31/2017 at 11:57 AM, Slick_Kid said:

I am not the best writer, but I love the lore and thematic elements that make Bretonnia Bretonnia. 

Check out the roundtable-bretonnia.org. There plenty of artists and Bretonnia nuts on there who I'm sure would lend a hand in putting this together.

 

Just posted there and hopefully I will be seeing more brets and hopefully more supporters. Thank you for the encouragement!

11 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

^ I'll second this. We Bret fanatics would love to help out with a fan-battletome. I already downloaded and am explaining the one Auticus made, it was very well-done. :)

Mantic already used us in making their not-Bretonnians when AoS arrived so we'd love to help with actual descendants of Bretonnia. 

I myself am a humongous fan of the AoS background and bite into any lore I can get my hands on. (Sigmar bless Shinros and his lore threads. :))

There is sooo much potential. Floating palaces for a king's flying armies where the lower classes live on the perilous bottom of the island, castles built into the bones of a country-sized beast slain by a great hero and using holy magic to seal it from being used by ambitious necromancers, cursed kingdoms that keep appearing and vanishing into mist send out their knights to find precious artifacts to try and lift their curse, the list is endless with AoS!

Thank you for the information! Yes I figured that there is plenty of love for Brets that they will continue to get support for a very long time!

You have some very nice ideas! Thank you for sharing!

 

UPDATE:

As I explained, I have now opened a topic on the round table and hopefully will be getting more support for the project. I am now looking to put together the team to start working on this. If you feel you have something to offer please send me a pm. Writers, artists, anything~

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