looking for support Bretonnia Battletome Project

[Zeroken]

I haven't had the chance to try them as I actually have no archer models, but this idea of Forester and Rangers, aka. Ragged Brotherhood seems great. Useful, but doesn't seem OP. However there seems to be something wrong in Forester's command ability. It says:

"...target PEASANTRY units from your army that are wholly within 12"..."

It looks like we can target multiple units, which would make the 'Coordinated Strike' part of The Ragged Brotherhood redundant:

"...all units in The Ragged Brotherhood gain the benefits, while wholly within 12..."

I'm assuming Forester's ability was meant to be used on a single unit, is that correct?

 

And The Returned are now, how Grail Knights needed to be before. Not just Knights+1, but each of them a great warrior. Possibly my favourite part of the battletome.

 

Also, I saw people saying they didn't like the idea of Demigryphs in a Bretonnian army, and I agree. But what happened to The Great White Hart and Sons of Breton? Where they scrapped because of lore or rules?

[SpiritofHokuto]

On 11/29/2018 at 12:14 PM, Zeroken said:

I haven't had the chance to try them as I actually have no archer models, but this idea of Forester and Rangers, aka. Ragged Brotherhood seems great. Useful, but doesn't seem OP. However there seems to be something wrong in Forester's command ability. It says:

"...target PEASANTRY units from your army that are wholly within 12"..."

It looks like we can target multiple units, which would make the 'Coordinated Strike' part of The Ragged Brotherhood redundant:

"...all units in The Ragged Brotherhood gain the benefits, while wholly within 12..."

I'm assuming Forester's ability was meant to be used on a single unit, is that correct?

 

And The Returned are now, how Grail Knights needed to be before. Not just Knights+1, but each of them a great warrior. Possibly my favourite part of the battletome.

 

Also, I saw people saying they didn't like the idea of Demigryphs in a Bretonnian army, and I agree. But what happened to The Great White Hart and Sons of Breton? Where they scrapped because of lore or rules?

Yes, the Forester's command ability should read "target Peasantry unit" so that the Coordinated Strike ability from The Ragged Brotherhood actually gives a bonus.

 

Sons of Breton have been dropped due to rules as there's no real precedent for a damaging Endless Spell that can move and isn't Predatory, and also due to lore as it seems very unfitting that they'd damage Breton units. We are however currently developing 3 Breton exclusive Endless Spells, one of which will be an altered version of the Great White Hart. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by SpiritofHokuto

[Nielspeterdejong]

So while I appreciate all the changes you guys are making, I fear that they will need quite a bit to be competitive with the newest factions XD Here is an battle between Bretonnia and the Beastclaw Raiders: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4SQdraa0nQ

[Lord Bretonnia]

You do reslize that they, in the battle report, are using the official rules and not this community based rules set... right?

[Nielspeterdejong]

Yes, I am aware. But this is just an indication of how powerful the newer factions are. 

[Zeroken]

I think this is an indicator that this community based rules set is needed. The official breton rules and points are between weak and trash.

[Duke of Gisoreux]

19 minutes ago, Zeroken said:

I think this is an indicator that this community based rules set is needed. The official breton rules and points are between weak and trash.

Indeed. So I suggest that all people who think that too post a comment in the videos and recommend to use the fanmade rules in future battle reports for Bretonnia.

[Verengard]

I have a suggestion for a fun rule. There should be a bonus for charging base on the charge distance - this is realistic - the more speed you get, the more impact on hit (3" charges should have almost no bonus), but not overpowered since it increases the chance to fail.

[eciu]

3 minutes ago, Verengard said:

I have a suggestion for a fun rule. There should be a bonus for charging base on the charge distance - this is realistic - the more speed you get, the more impact on hit (3" charges should have almost no bonus), but not overpowered since it increases the chance to fail.

Should it depend on the roll or the actuall distance traveled ? (mind that the second might be easy to exploit)

[Verengard]

1 minute ago, eciu said:

Should it depend on the roll or the actuall distance traveled ? (mind that the second might be easy to exploit)

It makes sense distance traveled (closest points of units), but i'm no rule writer, just giving an idea that seems fun for me.

[Duke of Gisoreux]

21 minutes ago, Verengard said:

I have a suggestion for a fun rule. There should be a bonus for charging base on the charge distance - this is realistic - the more speed you get, the more impact on hit (3" charges should have almost no bonus), but not overpowered since it increases the chance to fail.

Actually there is a rule that provides a bonus for charging:

Quote

The Lady Wills It!
If you make a charge roll of 9+ for a friendly NOBILITY unit, any unmodified hit roll of 6 for its melee weapons (excluding mounts) inflicts mortal wounds equal to the Damage characteristic of the weapon to the target, and the attack sequence ends.

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Duke of Gisoreux

[Zeroken]

I think The Green Knight needs something right now. All other heroes have certain roles but all he has is that he is hard to kill. And even with his skills, with 5 wounds and 4+ save, he can sometimes die quite easily.

I think maybe an aura -1 bravery debuff might work, it would make him a more primary target, reinforcing his role as a tank.

What do you think?

[Pellynor]

'allo! Just joined up here and there's a lot to go through so if any of this repeats, apologizes. 

10 hours ago, Zeroken said:

I think The Green Knight needs something right now. All other heroes have certain roles but all he has is that he is hard to kill. And even with his skills, with 5 wounds and 4+ save, he can sometimes die quite easily.

I think maybe an aura -1 bravery debuff might work, it would make him a more primary target, reinforcing his role as a tank.

What do you think?

A -1 to bravery to all units within 3" would be pretty thematic. I think his biggest weakness at the moment lies not in his wounds but that he stays dead. I loved using him in 8th when he could be set back up again after being slain. Considering there are characters like Skarr Bloodwrath, it would not be too hard to have him return after being slain, maybe on a 4+, 3rd time on a 5+, etc. Being able to come back from the dead also makes his points much easier to swallow.

 

Aside from that is there a link to the most current rules? I've noticed there are several versions out now and wondering which one people are on. Thanks!

[Nielspeterdejong]

So... how is the project coming along?

[henin]

3 hours ago, Pellynor said:

'allo! Just joined up here and there's a lot to go through so if any of this repeats, apologizes. 

A -1 to bravery to all units within 3" would be pretty thematic. I think his biggest weakness at the moment lies not in his wounds but that he stays dead. I loved using him in 8th when he could be set back up again after being slain. Considering there are characters like Skarr Bloodwrath, it would not be too hard to have him return after being slain, maybe on a 4+, 3rd time on a 5+, etc. Being able to come back from the dead also makes his points much easier to swallow.

 

Aside from that is there a link to the most current rules? I've noticed there are several versions out now and wondering which one people are on. Thanks!

We will be taking all suggestions and analyzing them first before I make a proper response regarding them but for you and all who might not know which file it is, here is the new file. I will start cleaning up old files through this forum as well so that nobody can get confused No worries! Sorry for the confusion!

Link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CMGcIhYmScjNXzD7QZdZFzeiD3Pt-F0d/view?usp=sharing

 

2 hours ago, Nielspeterdejong said:

So... how is the project coming along?

Things are going well! We should have a nice update soon though we are going to be generally sluggish since now we are focusing on visuals. If anybody wishes to contribute art then please message me! Also more on the endless spells coming soon! There will be a major update soon I hope!

Life is making things difficult but we are hoping to pick it up again soon! 

[Turin Turambar]

Is this still a thing, if so how soon till V1?

some lore question-things:

1- if in your lore the Lady is still Lileath, is her daughter (who was sent to the pocket realm) around and doing stuff in your lore, I think she should be (she doesn't need a model but in her lore you could include that some think she has disguised herself as one of the  top handmaidens sometimes)

2-Louen...

"So it was that, courteous to the last, Louen Leoncoeur died in the precincts of the Temple of Shallya, far from home, ringed by the living and the dead. Even the Vampire Lord had a look of sadness as he stood over the Bretonnian's ravaged body, before finally retreating from the field. Louen was found hours after the battle had finally ended. Collected by his grieving knights, he was borne away like a hero, silently and in reverence. His body later melted into a pool of holy water as he ascended to godhood, part of Lileath's plan for a new world. Later, as Lileath held a meeting with the other Gods of the Old World, she turned to the Golden Paladin at her side, inspired by the loyal sacrifice he had made..."- https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Louen_Leoncoeur

since many of the other gods servived (like sigmar and nagash) it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have Louen as a god in AOS

[henin]

@Turin Turambar I don't know about Louen being a god but he is present in the form of the Host King of Breton (the king model in our tome currently) Is equivalent to being an avatar to a godly king entity/spirit (Louen or possibly other great kings  ) through the process of Geist Bonding as we call it. A true and worthy knight who is powerful enough to be host for this, blessed by the Lady is capable of being the new King. (just to give an idea in general of whats going on here.) 

As for the daughter, yes she is here and she is in the pocket realm, now the realm given a proper name as Avelone. (the realm being protected in the heart of Breton society and under the watch and guard of the lady herself.) Nothing is stopping her from secretly going about if she wanted to secretly though   

[Sokhar]

@Henin when will release an update :)? Thx

[henin]

Update

Here is a bit of an update. We have been working on some endless spells and we came to this! Hope you guys like them! They are not a 100% sure thing but this is what we have at the moment to add to the allegiance of Breton. 

The points costs are:

The Great White Hart: 40

Sons of Breton: 60

Grail of the Lady: 60

The Warscroll drafts are attached here. If they don't work please let me know so I can make an alternative. Let us know what you guys think and how they test!

 

Great_White_Hart.pdf

Sons of Breton.pdf

Grail of the Lady.pdf

[Zeroken]

I haven't tested anything, but just looking at the pdfs:

1-Page 53 of Malign Sorcery has this sentence: "An endless spell model cannot be moved unless it is a predatory endless spell"

Going by this, either Great White Hart will be an exception or it will have to stay still except for its 'Skittish Instincts'.

2-Sons of Breton hit even less than Quicksilver Swords(Universal and just 20pts). Can't say anything for balance since again, I haven't tested but I wouldn't have expected ancient magical knights to be this weak.

[Lord Bretonnia]

Hi guys

I was just wondering when we might see an update for the tome?


Cheers!

[henin]

Hello everyone!

So, as we were working on completing the next release of the rules, we were on track to release in the next two weeks or so but... There is something we keep coming back to and being very indecisive about (this is something we keep discussing since the beginning, when we started this project). We feel it's time we open this topic to discussion.

Mount Rules/Traits(?)

We know that Bretonnia is very cavalry focused with varying mounts across the units. We feel that in AOS, they will have more prominent focus on mounts with potentially, exotic mounts.

Though our question is... How should we give this focus to the mounts rules?

We have a few ideas but we are unsure. We are opening this for discussion. We have three ideas, one simple and similar to other established mounts rules, one more narrative focus, and the third being a sort of middle idea. Here are what we have come up with:

1. Have a selection of mount traits that give bonuses of varying types.

2. A list of mounts to chose from, potentially including exotic mounts options.

3. A list of customization options. Essentially options that allow you to make a custom mount for your mounted hero. (This being also simple options but should provide the unique aspect we are looking for just as the other ideas should. This could customise an existing mount.)

What do you guys think? What other ideas do you guys have? We are open to suggestions and discussion. These ideas are all rough concepts and thus could alter of course. We really need to hear what you guys think?

Cheers!

-Gabe

 

[Beregond]

Hi Henin, 

I love that you guys are working on this battletome and I have played it a few times. Great fun! 

Regarding the mounts I am not sure I understand exactly what you are suggesting with the three options, but I like the concept of having options for mounts. You have already started this with the marshal having several options and point costs. But then you have adopted a different strategy with the damsel: being able to choose freely between a horse and a pegasus. I think the improved mount/capabilities should come with a point cost as with the marshal, also for these new traits. 

Really looking forward to the next update!

Beregond

[Zeroken]

Bretonnia is the mounted faction, so just getting simple mount traits would be a waste. More customization or exotic options would be good. If they are fitting to the lore, even better.

An idea: Heroes get simple mount traits:
Energetic horse (+2 move, +2 charge), Tough horse (+1 wound), Mystic horse (ignore harmful spell at 5 or 6 of a d6), etc. 

But all mounted troops also get mount traits. Similar to heroes but for the sake of balance, all options get detrimental affects:
Energetic horse (+2 move, +2 charge but has to try to charge if enemy is closer than 9"), Tough horse (+1 wound but only 8" move), Mystic horse ignore harmful or beneficial spell at 5 or 6 of a d6).

This way, the point of the entire army being masters of mounted combat would be emphasized, I think.

[Lord Bretonnia]

I’m not sure I understand the exact idea behind this, not the examples you provide. Could you flesh them out?

Cheers