looking for support Bretonnia Battletome Project

[SpiritofHokuto]

So are there any more ideas/criticisms before we start on the next round of revisions for this? 

[Nielspeterdejong]

Well to be honest, I don't see any changes into it ^^; Are you certain you've uploaded the right file?

[SpiritofHokuto]

3 hours ago, Nielspeterdejong said:

Well to be honest, I don't see any changes into it ^^; Are you certain you've uploaded the right file?

Yes initially the old version was linked but that's been rectified.

These are the changes that were made.

The Lady Wills It! - Change to working on an unmodified 6

Armour of Brilliance - Change to CV5

Nature's Wrath - change range to 6"

Revivfy - change to CV7

Blessed Lake - Add Mystic Shimmer back in, Hymn to the Courtiers change to CV6

Morrigna - Blessing of the Lady - Change to CV6

Marshal on Demigryph - change Marshal's Shield to be like others, remove charge benefit to halberd make it 3+ to wound

Noble Champion with Peasantry buffs, remove mounted version

Host Knights - Massed Cavalry from 10 to 8

Bowmen - replace Massed accuracy with Steady Aim

Mounted Yeoman - remove Wooden Shields

Exemplar Order - remove limit on Unrefutable Challenge

[Nielspeterdejong]

Well next time let us know, because I thought you still had the old version there.

And I like most of these changes, especially to the Noble Champion

Massed Accuracy seems to be the same though, or is just the title the same?

I think the Mounted Yeoman are missing an edge now, so I'd suggest changing their melee attacks to 4+ hit and 4+ wounds for both the spear and hooves. 

And perhaps the cost of Sons of Breton could be lowered to 180? And I'd lower the cost of the Peasant militia to 60. Also the Sage's Order seems to be missing something for 120 points, perhaps you could give it one additional minor effect?

The rest seems great though

 

 

[Verengard]

Im happy that Bretonnia is going to get some love in AoS even if its unofficial. But I must say i dont like some changes:

- unit name changes - GW already did that why make it again for even more confussion

-demi gryphs - why demigryphs, bret have hipogryphs... why even adding new OP cavalry just buff grail knights there are living saints after all... or pegs this is our demigryph counterpart

- new units other than those from 5th edition - bretonnia already has a ton of units in comparason to some official AoS factions, whats the point of adding more

- my suggestion is to focus on existing warscrolls, point costs , create some some battalions, allegiance, not whole new freaken army with no GW miniature support, if you balance the existing compedium the community might allow it on tournaments. But in current form... sorry mate  I see it only  for some casual play. 

And no im  no hater, Im a devoted Bret player on round bases but i dont like how this goes.

[SpiritofHokuto]

In no way is this project intended to be for high level competitive play. If small local tournaments allow it that's great but essentially we're aiming for a consolidated house rule document with attendant fluff and artwork.

As for name changes and additional units. We need to change with the times and adapt the Brettonian army to be more a comprehensive range.

[Verengard]

Im just not sure if the way it's going to happen is a good idea.

Fluff - OK ++

Artifacts - OK ++

Alegiance Traits / Buffs - OK ++

Point/existing scrolls balancing - OK++

Changing names of some units - NOK -- whats the point of renaming a Lord to a Marshal, Damsel to Handmaiden, all the knigts...

New strange units that don't even have models - NOK -- whats the point? original Bret already have more units than most NEW FANCY AOS armies, realy no need to add more without any models avaiable

Demigryphs - ROFL? this is the worst change IMO, freeguild have demigryphs, we have pegasus which are simmilar. If you realy want new monsters why not Hipogryphs, after all the king rides a royal one...

Don't treat me as hater, this is just my opinion.

[SpiritofHokuto]

4 hours ago, Verengard said:

Im just not sure if the way it's going to happen is a good idea.

Fluff - OK ++

Artifacts - OK ++

Alegiance Traits / Buffs - OK ++

Point/existing scrolls balancing - OK++

Changing names of some units - NOK -- whats the point of renaming a Lord to a Marshal, Damsel to Handmaiden, all the knigts...

New strange units that don't even have models - NOK -- whats the point? original Bret already have more units than most NEW FANCY AOS armies, realy no need to add more without any models avaiable

Demigryphs - ROFL? this is the worst change IMO, freeguild have demigryphs, we have pegasus which are simmilar. If you realy want new monsters why not Hipogryphs, after all the king rides a royal one...

Don't treat me as hater, this is just my opinion.

The names are changing due to fluff, if you look back in the thread for @henin posts it should give a decent idea of where we're going with that.

All new units have equivalents that have existed in the Bretonnian army at some point. We're just consolidating them into one document. And yes the number of units is higher than some AOS armies. But it's not my place to question GW's sometimes weirdly limited design space. As for models no Bretonnian units actually have any officially sold models any more. So it's either paying way over the odds for second hand GW stuff or going third party. Of which there's a smorgasbord of analogous models for all the units.

Demi-gryph are something that's still not concrete yet and we are looking at the possibility of a Hippogryph unit similar to how Pusgoyles were implemented.

    

[FORCEFIELDS]

I'm discovering this project just now so my apologies in advance if this has already been covered -- Are there any plans to include rules for a Peasant Levy / Peasant Militia? I've recently painted up a batch of wargames foundry armed peasant models that I would love to use as part of a Breton army!

Edited April 15, 2018 by FORCEFIELDS

[SpiritofHokuto]

9 hours ago, FORCEFIELDS said:

I'm discovering this project just now so my apologies in advance if this has already been covered -- Are there any plans to include rules for a Peasant Levy / Peasant Militia? I've recently painted up a batch of wargames foundry armed peasant models that I would love to use as part of a Breton army!

In terms of a Peasant Levy probably not. We're already a bit on the high side for number of units and also they don't really fit in with the new fluff that we're developing. They could still be used as particularly hard done by Men-at-Arms or ascetic Battle Pilgrims.

  

[Nielspeterdejong]

Well to be honest, playing is only fun if you have a somewhat equal chance of winning.

[AthlorianStoners]

@SpiritofHokuto great stuff, really awesome work! 

Some of the weird hostility you get in here astounds me, you and everyone else involved should only be commended for the work you’re doing.

[Nielspeterdejong]

I’m not sure what you mean? I love this project, and I just really want it to succeed

[Verengard]

I dont see any hate here either, i'm waiting for the release. Different people have different opinions how it should look like.

For me tweaking existing scrolls & adding allegiance/battalions is enough. Current unit names are generic enough that you can create lore without name changes.

But it's just my opinion, it's up to the creator of the tome.

 

 

[Zeroken]

Hello, I recently found out about this project and I must say, you are doing Lady's work. Keep it up!

I have a few comments about it:

1) Green Knight's sword having the same rules as a lance is a bit weird. If the goal is to give gim some kind of charge bonus, might I suggest something like what Lord-Celestant has? +1 attack with his sword? Maybe his steed could kick one more time too, making his Phanton Steed special in a way.

2)The Lady made the grail knights her pocket dimension's immortal guardians right? Unless I'm mistaken this should mean that Louen and even Grail Companions of old like Landuin are/could be alive there. I don't know how much this could effect your current lore, but just putting it out there.

3) Currently, the battletome draft does not include any rules for the "noble standard bearer" and "Prophetess on Pegasus models. I think it would be better to include all existing models.

*I'm wondering what size a model you thought for The Great White Hart?

Thank you for doing this all! I wish I was an artist, then I could help, alas...

 

[Duke of Gisoreux]

First, I really appreciate the good work that you did so far!

Here are some suggestions/comments/questions I have:

• Battle Pilgrims should become Battleline when the army contains at least one unit of The Returned.
• The Silver Mirror: Change range to 30" as this is the new range for unbinding in AoS 2nd edition.
• Field Trebuchet: Change the profile like GW did it for the new Celestar-Ballista. This means the war machine and crew have only one profile and not one for each.
• Green Knight: He seems to be too expensive for what he does. There has to be a reason to take him over a Marshal on Pegasus. He could have 3+ to wound not only when he charges.
• The Exemplar Order: Range 2" for Unrefutable Challenge seems very little.
• There is no option for a mounted standard bearer hero.
• There is no option for a Handmaiden on Pegasus
• Marshal on Warhorse/Pegasus: Why does the Marshal on Warhorse have a reroll to hit against MONSTERS, but the one on Pegasus doesn't? A Hero on Pegasus is more likely to be a monster hunter than a one on warhorse.
• Battle Pilgrims: Does the Reliquae have the same profile like the other Battle Pilgrims? When taking a minimum sized unit, would it be 4 Battle Pilgrims and 1 Reliquae or 5 Battle Pilgrims and 1 Reliquae?
• The Exemplar Order: Does "non BRETON units" refer to allies or also to units that are part of a BRETON Battailon like The Sage Order or The Order of the Burning Lance which contain ELDRITCH COUNCIL and FYRESLAYER units?
• I don't like the idea of units on Demi-Gryph. In my opinion Demi-Gryph is Free Peoples. A unit of Hippogryph mounted knights would be nice.
• I would like to see a Bretonnian Crossbowmen unit. Bretonnia had Crossbowmen back in 3rd/4th edition of WHFB and I still have models for them. I would really like to use them in my Bretonnian Army.

 

That's my thoughts so far.

[kenshin620]

I would love to see if theres any changes/tweaks with AoS 2.0.

[SpiritofHokuto]

3 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

First, I really appreciate the good work that you did so far!

Here are some suggestions/comments/questions I have:

• Battle Pilgrims should become Battleline when the army contains at least one unit of The Returned.
• These are going to be changed to be battle-line if a Morrigna is the general
• The Silver Mirror: Change range to 30" as this is the new range for unbinding in AoS 2nd edition.
• This was missed out on our revisions thanks for the heads up.
• Field Trebuchet: Change the profile like GW did it for the new Celestar-Ballista. This means the war machine and crew have only one profile and not one for each.
• Yes this warscroll will be redone.
• Green Knight: He seems to be too expensive for what he does. There has to be a reason to take him over a Marshal on Pegasus. He could have 3+ to wound not only when he charges.
• This warscroll has been tweaked and points dropped accordingly.
• The Exemplar Order: Range 2" for Unrefutable Challenge seems very little.
• It would lead to some strange scenarios if the range was longer than his melee range.
• There is no option for a mounted standard bearer hero.
• We're still trying to work out how exactly to do the "Paladin" heroes.
• There is no option for a Handmaiden on Pegasus
• This is mostly due to lack of an easily obtained representative model.
• Marshal on Warhorse/Pegasus: Why does the Marshal on Warhorse have a reroll to hit against MONSTERS, but the one on Pegasus doesn't? A Hero on Pegasus is more likely to be a monster hunter than a one on warhorse.
• We're still working on how to make both of them distinct.
• Battle Pilgrims: Does the Reliquae have the same profile like the other Battle Pilgrims? When taking a minimum sized unit, would it be 4 Battle Pilgrims and 1 Reliquae or 5 Battle Pilgrims and 1 Reliquae?
• It is basically their version of a standard bearer now.
• The Exemplar Order: Does "non BRETON units" refer to allies or also to units that are part of a BRETON Battailon like The Sage Order or The Order of the Burning Lance which contain ELDRITCH COUNCIL and FYRESLAYER units?
• While models in these battalions don't count against your allies limit and count as having the Breton allegiance they are still non-Breton units and so The Exemplar Order would still preclude them. 
• I don't like the idea of units on Demi-Gryph. In my opinion Demi-Gryph is Free Peoples. A unit of Hippogryph mounted knights would be nice.
• These have been removed, not sure about the Hippogryphs for the same reason as Handmaiden on Pegasus.
• I would like to see a Bretonnian Crossbowmen unit. Bretonnia had Crossbowmen back in 3rd/4th edition of WHFB and I still have models for them. I would really like to use them in my Bretonnian Army.
• We entertained this idea but ultimately went for a Woodsmen style unit as it felt more iconic. 

 

That's my thoughts so far.

There's going to be many other big & small changes/tweaks. It'll just take us a bit of time to work through all of the revisions. 

[Duke of Gisoreux]

Thanks for the fast reply!

Looking at the Blessed Lake I think it is too strong as it is now. It's only 100 points and it has the potential to summon a 200 point Sons of Breton unit each turn! I think the Lake is strong enough even without granting this summon spell ability. It would also be possible to place the Lake somewhere in the center of the battlefield depending on where you setup the corresponding handmaiden. So please consider that the Lake's improved protection could easily cover most of your army.

About the Handmaiden on Pegasus:
I just placed a regular mounted Damsel model on a regular Pegasus so I don't see any issues with that:

 

[SpiritofHokuto]

The Sons of Breton are going to be reworked into an allegiance exclusive endless spell. Therefore that ability will be removed from the Blessed Lake. The Lake's improvement of Protection of the Spirits does key off models not units. Although with the changes to auras we may just extend the range a bit and specify units wholly within.

[Duke of Gisoreux]

I had a game yesterday using the Breton rules from the v0.4.1 PDF.

My army list:

Allegiance: Breton - Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders (2/4)
Host King of Breton 380
- General
- Trait: Virtue of Heroism
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike
Marshal on Pegasus 140
- Artefact: Jadewound Thorn

Battleline (2/2)
3 x Pegasus Host Knights 160
3 x Pegasus Host Knights 160

Battalions
Royal Air Force 140

Total: 980/1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Favour Tokens: 3
Wounds: 35

 

My opponent's list:

Allegiance: Seraphon - Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders (1/4)
Slann Starmaster (260)
- General
- Command Trait: Great Rememberer
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices

Battleline (2/2)
20 x Skinks (120)
- Boltspitters & Moonstone Clubs
20 x Saurus Warriors (200)
- Clubs

Behemoths (1/2)
Dread Saurian (420)

Total: 1000/1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Wounds: 63

The army was really nice to play.  After choosing the models I realized that my whole army was only 8 models and looked quite small on the battlefield. We played the battleplan "First Blood" from the core rules. It ended up with a major victory for me after battle round 5. I only lost 2 Pegasus Knights and the Marshal, but killed my opponent's whole army. My King had no problem killing the Dread Saurian in battle round 2, but the Slann was hard to get, but I managed to kill him battle round 4. He was really annoying as he used Celestial Conjuration to summon new Seraphon units each turn. During the battle he summoned two Salamanders, one unit of Skink Handlers and a unit of Saurus Knights on the battlefield and was able to teleport two of his units each turn. My units are very fast so I was able to counter this most of the time.

 

[kenshin620]

Unrelated to actual breton, but that dread saurian! ? (though bit odd to see a 420 point monster in a 1k list!)

 

Good to see the RAF back in action!

[Lord Bretonnia]

Hello Design team...

Its been quite a while and I was wondering if there might be any AOS 2.0 updates on the way? That would be grand.

Let me know whats going on, looking forward to some updates soon.

 

Cheers

[AaronWilson]

Your king killed in a dread saurian in 2  rounds? How mad is he, that thing has a 3+ save and 16 wounds..

[Duke of Gisoreux]

46 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

Your king killed in a dread saurian in 2  rounds? How mad is he, that thing has a 3+ save and 16 wounds..

Well, actually the King killed the Dread Saurian in a single round (the second round). He only needed two rounds to charge it.

As I already mentioned the King had the command trait Virtue of Heroism (+1 damage against HEROES and MONSTERS) and the artifact Ghyrstrike (+1 to hit and +1 to wound). Additionally the Sword of the King rule grants him rerolls for failed hit rolls against HEROES and MONSTERS and +1 to damage and wound rolls on the charge against them. So he hit the Dread Saurian on the charge on 2+ (rerolling fails) and also wounded on 2+ doing D3+2 damage with each attack. All 6 attacks were successful. So the Dread Saurian had to do 6 save rolls at 4+ (because of Rend -1 of the King's Sword). He failed 4 out of 6 saves and thus the King did 4D3+8 damage which resulted in 17 wounds in total. So I didn't even need to roll for the hippogryph's attacks.

As I expected one or more monsters in the SERAPHON army I customized the King to be the best monster hunter as possible.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Duke of Gisoreux