GW's stance on using non-GW bits when kit-bashing

[Veillotron]

Hello,

 

Another NOOB question. Apologies in if this has been asked before; I tried searching for an old thread but couldn't find any.

 

I love kit-bashing and trying to create models with a unique twist. I tried as much as possible to only use GW bits from their current range, but sometimes the best parts come from another era / company.

As an example below is my Lord Celestant with the helmet from a model from the late 80s (I want my Stormcast heroes to wear the helmets from their previous lives as opposed to the death masks). I can't remember whether the model was from Citadel, Ral Partha or another company...

 

So what is acceptable at GW tournaments or painting competitions? I am very, very far away from Golden Demon standard, but I was wondering if such a model would be disqualified from the outset because of its dated/foreign parts?

In a tournament, would I be able to field such a model? Is the guideline "as long as the starting point is a GW model, it is OK", or does it have to be 100% GW? Whatever rules they use is fine since it is their company, but I was wondering what the rules are.

I am assuming that for an independent tournament there is more freedom?

 

Again, thanks for your help/insight!

 

 

 

 

 

[Double Misfire]

Classy conversion, the head really fits!

Not at official tournaments held at Warhammer World/Warhammer Fest, not at Golden Daemon and not in White Dwarf and if you go to a non-GW event where Warhammer TV's present not on the livestream. If you're going to an independent event as long as it's clear what the model is and there's nothing about not using non-GW models in the comp pack, use whatever parts you like.

Out of interest, do you have any pictures of the original knight that head came from before you removed it, or even his headless body? I could probably tell you if it was an old GW model or not.

[Veillotron]

12 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Classy conversion, the head really fits!

Not at official tournaments held at Warhammer World/Warhammer Fest, not at Golden Daemon and not in White Dwarf and if you go to a non-GW event where Warhammer TV's present not on the livestream. If you're going to an independent event as long as it's clear what the model is and there's nothing about not using non-GW models in the comp pack, use whatever parts you like.

Out of interest, do you have any pictures of the original knight that head came from before you removed it, or even his headless body? I could probably tell you if it was an old GW model or not.

Thank you for kind comment and the info.

Re eligibility, that is a shame... My local GW store is OK with it, and was hoping that it would be the same with HQ... but their position makes sense. Oh well, my chance of winning any GW trophy has gone down from 0.1% t0 0.0%

Re the model, from memory in came in a box set Knight of the Round Table. The box was yellow and it contained a dozen knights with armors from all different eras: Sir Galahad was dressed in a full plate German armour with the sallet helmet, whilst this knight looked more like a templar knight, dressed in chainmail with a long tabard. He was slightly inclined and had a shield and a small war axe. It was my favorite model, and I had been able to get three models. If I can find the one that I had painted I will take a photo and post it. 

I got rid of the two headless bodies... I put the other head on my wingless Celestant Prime (I reckons he looks meaner without the wings, and he's much easier to carry around). It is hard to see on the photo but I was able to cut the Prime's head halo (for lack of a better term) and glue it on the helmet. I think that this helmet indeed works well with the SE look. 

 

[Double Misfire]

I'm fairly sure GW never released any Arthurian (actually Arthurian, not Bretonnian stuff), so you're probably out of luck. The heads are pretty generic though, so you could probably get away with telling people they came from the '88 Bretonnian range with nobody being the wiser.

[Veillotron]

Whoa, this picture sure brings back some good memories...

In my humble opinion these helmets look 10x better (more realistic, less cartoony) than the latest Bretonnian ones.

By chance, is anyone still selling those? If anybody knows, thank you in advance for sending me a PM [hopefully not breaking any forum rules?].

Thanks for the advice, I'll try my luck at Warhammer World

[Double Misfire]

Foundry Minatures still sell reproductions of earlier medieval GW stuff on their website, but they're much smaller than the above models:

http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/medieval/early-medieval-barons-wars/

Beyond that check ebay. I wouldn't imagine them to come cheap though!

[AGPO]

Back when it was my 'local' I played at Warhammer World with space marine scouts with pig iron helmets and warriors of chaos with some Avatars of War bits mixed in. It depends a lot on your local staffers, but generally the rule is that nobody has issues with a handful of bits (some head swaps, a third party weapon etc) but that whole third party minis aren't acceptable. Personally I think it's fair enough, as no business would be keen on advertising a rival's product in their own store.

[WoollyMammoth]

GW's official rule is that any one model has to be 51% GW plastic. This leaves a lot of room for kit bashes and various basing material, etc.

The point I think is that, the model has to represent an actual GW model that you have to purchase.

In my FEC, most of the 50 ghouls are using mantic heads, yet the GW GM nominated my army for best painted at LVO. The guy that won had a giant model made entirely of green stuff. The point is, all the GW people are cool and if they see a cool model like yours that is made mostly of GW plastic, they are not going to have any issues.

[Durant]

You can always say you did them in Green Stuff (afk the GW one )

[Veillotron]

@Double Misfire: perfect, thanks a bunch for the link!!

@AGPO: cheers for the input - as you said, GW would totally be in their right to ban competitors' products, they are running a business after all.

@WoollyMammoth: you Sir have made my day! Thank you for clarifying the official rule - I feel much better now that I know my models are 'legit'.

@Durant (assuming this emoji represents a ninja)

[Durant]

3 minutes ago, Veillotron said:

@Double Misfire@AGPO

@WoollyMammoth

@Durant (assuming this emoji represents a ninja)

I too have problems with those frigin things, nice and wife always have a laugh when I send them. Always get them wrong specialy animals ones

[Double Misfire]

7 hours ago, WoollyMammoth said:

GW's official rule is that any one model has to be 51% GW plastic. This leaves a lot of room for kit bashes and various basing material, etc.

The point I think is that, the model has to represent an actual GW model that you have to purchase.

In my FEC, most of the 50 ghouls are using mantic heads, yet the GW GM nominated my army for best painted at LVO. The guy that won had a giant model made entirely of green stuff. The point is, all the GW people are cool and if they see a cool model like yours that is made mostly of GW plastic, they are not going to have any issues.

Fairly sure that this rule changed when companies like Chapter House and Kromlech started releasing alternate heads and accessories for existing GW kits. LVO is an independent tournament with a GW presence there, totally different from a GW run one at Warhammer Word or similar.

 

3 minutes ago, Durant said:

I too have problems with those frigin things, nice and wife always have a laugh when I send them. Always get them wrong specialy animals ones

[Veillotron]

3 minutes ago, Double Misfire said:

Fairly sure that this rule changed when companies like Chapter House and Kromlech started releasing alternate heads and accessories for existing GW kits. LVO is an independent tournament with a GW presence there, totally different from a GW run one at Warhammer Word or similar.

Hmmm... I will try to get more clarity / an official answer from the guys @ Warhammer Live either Wednesday or Thursday on Twitch...

[WoollyMammoth]

@Double Misfire
I was told the 51% rule when I first asked at GW in Manhattan. I asked again about two months ago in Scottsdale, AZ and was told the same answer. I know this is the current stance for the stores. There might be different stances or rules for specific tournaments but I would be surprised. Warhammer World could have their own policy but I would assume not. Generally everyone likes to see a little bit of unique kit bashing as long as the model is clearly recognizable as a GW model.

LVO was organized and moderated by guys that flew in from Nottingham. There were a couple people from Frontline Gaming but they were just helping people get set up in their private scoring app. GW was doing live streams, organizing the painting contests, being the official GM and awarding the prizes. They took a bunch of pics too, I don't know where their official pics went, I thought there would be a Warhammer Community post. They probably don't have any procedures in place yet since this was the first GW sponsored tournament in 6 years. 

[AGPO]

As with most things AOS,  the answer on both sides is mostly "don't be a git." A staffer at my local Warhammer store put it perfectly:

"In the end, we're hobbyists and we love nice conversions and armies as much as the next guy, but our jobs rely on sales. We know who here gets their stuff off eBay or Dark Sphere and plays here twice a week without buying anything, and that's a much bigger issue than someone using some third party bits on stuff they bought in store. If we didn't make enough selling models we'd have to start to charge for club nights and nobody wants that, least of all us. Pay where you play and enjoy the hobby; the rest is gravy."

[RuneBrush]

Just to echo the above.  For regular gaming at GW stores etc, most staff are happy to accept odd third party bits and bobs.  For a painting competition you're going to want to stick to GW unless it's something that you've modified vastly from the original part.

I will generally put myself into a staff member's shoes - if a customer says they wish to create a model "like that one", you need to be able to pick out all of the parts from the store or order them in.  If there's a big component that is non-GW that's when it becomes difficult and that's the point where you'd be told the model isn't allowed.

For official tournaments up at WHW the rules pack normally states it needs to be GW models in some form or another.

[HeadHunter]

Our local GW store manager is cool.  He doesn't give you a hard time if you're playing Blood Bowl with a non-GW team, especially for those teams that aren't yet available.  He's not going to insist you buy $75 worth of AoS/40K boxes to kitbash a team.

He's wise enough to realize that when people play in your store, they spend in your store.  If they feel they have to go somewhere else to use the cool models they bought or converted, they're going to spend their money in those other places instead.

GW has yet to realize that people aren't going to play in another store and still travel to GW stores to make their purchases.  They'll buy from their FLGS or eBay if it comes to that.  Also, they're unlikely to buy elsewhere and then go to Warhammer stores to play.  So if they're in there, it's because they want to be at a GW store. The "company line" is costing GW potential sales.