"Old" Elite Infantry overpriced?

[Bimli]

10 minutes ago, chord said:

Ah ok,  I think that could be debatable since it sounds like the measurement would really close.  Of course I've not tried that nor do I have any figures with me at work, so I just have to picture it in my head.

Yes measure the base size and if it is less than 1" so long as models are touching the back dude can reach

[High Warden]

 

10 hours ago, Bimli said:

Yes measure the base size and if it is less than 1" so long as models are touching the back dude can reach

 

Yeh this how I play at my local GW, people are cool with it given the fact that most older units hit like a wet noodle anyhow.  This means taking a unit of 20 sword masters basically means 40 attacks.  I will say though that the swordmasters and lothern sea helms look great on 32mm bases...

[Fellclaw01]

On 20/01/2017 at 3:38 AM, Denneysman said:

No let's compair 

 

5 Protectors = 15 wounds 4+  armor 7 bravery 15 attacks hit 3s wound 3s -1 rend. D6 to monsters on a 6 roll 4" move

10 swordmasters= 10 wounds 4+ armor reroll against shooting 20 attacks hit on 3s wound on 3s reroll 1s 7 bravery -1 rend 6"move

Other then 5 more wounds swordmasters come out on top.

Protectors have a slight advantage with defense where swordmasters have one with offense. Looks about right to me.

 

 

Your forgetting the free star soul maces, 2 per 5, that changes the damage output

[buffalozap]

The older Elves lines were not bad when the compendiums first dropped and the generals handbook initially pointed them. There were some formations that you could take that made them competitive at a low level of play.

 

Sadly as each new battletome hits shelves the elves are showing their age more and more.

 

We can only hope that the GHB 2.0 will re-value the old warscrolls to make them more competitive. Or alternatively we may see some of those legacy units rolled into new factions that get battletomes and have their points updated at that time.

[Denneysman]

On 1/25/2017 at 1:56 AM, Fellclaw01 said:

Your forgetting the free star soul maces, 2 per 5, that changes the damage output

yes and no. didn't forget just evens out. while on high armor targets maces add to damage on low armor and monsters it doesn't and with monsters can even takes away. the most you can get on a low armored monster with maces is 6. With out maces the most you can get is 36.(odds are more like 12 but IT could be 36.)

[Volund]

I dont know that we can say Starsoul maces even out, for two reasons. 1) you have an option, just the fact of having a choice adds value. You can choose to bring them or not bring them based on what army you are about to fight, other units do not have that ability, therefore that should be considered in their cost. 2) any model with a mace automatically hits and wounds and the save is automatically failed. The fact that it is literally impossible to "have a bad roll" with that model also adds value. There is no risk involved, if some hero needs to die and has two wounds left, you dont even need to roll dice, it just gets removed.

While technically the average damage output could be about the same with or without maces, i think there are other factors at work that make them intrinsically valuable and, by comparison, make other "elite" units seem overcosted.

[Denneysman]

True everything you say is spot on, but there are other circumstances where you have no choice and in fact the choice of bring them turns out to be the wrong one.

 

Say your in a tournament you bring a unit of 5 Decimators with two maces. Now you locked in to having them cause their on your army list. then you face a horde army of Grots. Which would you rather have two mace or two more axes. Then you nxt game chaos knights and you want maces. So I left them out cause value can flip back and forth with them.

I think it may come down to how folks make their army list. Some like myself make their lists well in advance build and paint just what they have on the list,and use it just that way be it for PUG or meet up or tournaments.

Others have a variety of models done up, and wait and put something together while having more info and choice of models on what their facing.

 

for the former, warscrolls are locked in one ways and there is no more choice for them.

for the later, warscrolls can still choose what they will use. So the ability to change around the unit weapons gives it more value.

Neither is the wrong way to do it. It just they have different ways of looking at the value of a unit. One sees the value of ALL the different ways you can make a unit. The other see the value of the way they would make a unit.