mmimzie Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Hey there been struggling to figure out a list that was cool to be my second list, and ahve half started in and out of different list. All of which have been order list as i like being the precieved good guys . I've wanted something low model count, tough, and with magic, but also something i can play at a sort of competitive level, but with some need of technical skill to make good. So i finally think i've settled on something with Phoenix's in it as they tick two boxes of the Tough and reduce model count. Then potentially augment thier defenses with an arch mage and/or a battle mage. Key things. I really want at least 3 pheonix's in my list, and 4 would be pretty cool. So brain storming would be really cool!! So here are two trys at a cool list, but i'm open to pretty much anything with pheonix's. Examples Edit: below doesn't work due to errata Spoiler Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (Quick silver) Anointed Of Asuryan On Flamespyre Phoenix (General Master of Defense or Reckless) Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (Relic Blade) Archmage Anointed Battlemage 10 x Phoenix Guard 10 x Phoenix Guard 10 x Freeguild Guard 10 x Freeguild Guard 10 x Freeguild Guard 10 x Freeguild Guard Spyreheart Warhost 1940pts Freeguild/Anoited on food/pheonix guard all pretty average (guard love the command buff) hold down the fort while pheonixs rip stuff up. Anointed Of Asuryan On Flamespyre Phoenix (280) Anointed Of Asuryan On Flamespyre Phoenix (280) Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (260) Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (260) Anointed (80) Anointed (80) 10 x Phoenix Guard (200) 10 x Phoenix Guard (200) 10 x Phoenix Guard (200) Spyreheart Warhost (100) 1940 Probably as tough as the top list as you don't have mages to escort but you loose that archmage bubble and the cost effective freeguild guard, but you get more pheonix power (-1 the easy +1 save access) . Sorceress On Black Dragon Sorceress Anointed Of Asuryan On Flamespyre Phoenix Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix Anointed Of Asuryan On Flamespyre Phoenix 10 x Bleakswords 10 x Bleakswords 10 x Bleakswords 10 x Black Guard 10 x Executioners Thrall Warhost 2000 Dropping the mortal wounds and picking up an angry dragon. Seems more class cannony but the sorceress on foot has a nice spell taht will work well with the frostheart pheonix, and maybe the talismen of blinding light to nerf realy scary stuff into uselessness. definitly more glass cannony and suprize shooting would be quite depressing to deal with, but atleast you get that +1 save from the friendly casters. ANywho thoughts or recommendations would be cool. Other beefy monsters would be nice. I'm alittle meh on storm cast, but could be swayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Sisters of the thorn. Their spell (and a good roll by the phoenix) gives them a nice advantage. Key thing with the phoenixes are to cast as many spells as possible to give them each their bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Now can the pheonoxs get a roll for each spell cast?? Qlso the spells dont have to be cast on them either. Edit: actually you gave me a sick list idea. Sisters of the thorn are great for what i want to do. LeadersAnointed Of Asuryan On Flamespyre Phoenix Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix Anointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix Anointed Anointed Anointed 5 x Reavers 5 x Reavers 5 x Reavers 5 x Doomfire Warlocks 5 x Sisters of the Thorn 1 x Gryph-Hound 1980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Yes each phoenix should get its own roll for each spell (if in range, etc). Can you drop in a loremaster instead of anointed? This would give you re-roll on all failed hit and wound rolls on one of the phoenix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 Hmmm yeah i considered the loremaster, but the command ability on one of thr pheonixs will have reroll to wound on all other pheonixs and anoited within 8" of them. Hmm but maybe your right, and it would allow a pheonix to go off on thier own pittle mission?? And wow loremasters are tough dudes!! What about maybe a battle mage?? Wildform, miasma, or life surge would be useful. Though i do kind of like the mixed elves thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizianolol Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I love phoenix too, i appreciate your list but with last Faq we have to pay for flamespyre come back ability, so ill drop the flamespyre and 3 anointed for a loremaster and a sorceress in drake if you can with points!:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexHarrison Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Why do we have to pay, the immortal ring has nothing to do with the warscroll ability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, AlexHarrison said: Why do we have to pay, the immortal ring has nothing to do with the warscroll ability? I'd agree you have to pay as the wording and effect are the same. Dude dies and you bring it back both rules are super clear that's the case, and faq says you have to pay for one. I'd personally feel silly arguing that this one is some exempt. That said i don't think it's abig a nerf as the average damage per turn for both the flame pheonix and Frost phoenix is the same, but the flame one does 1/3 it's damage as mortal wounds before and before combat, and the frost one has a -1 to hit aura. Anywho i think the pheonixs are close enough i'm willing to play with the one flame pheonix and if it sucks i'll trade her out for something else. @Tizianolol Droping the anoited wouldn't be too bad. I've been playing this zombie horde list so i'm used to locking people down in combat until i can deal with it. Do you think reevers, sisters, warlocks all running around will be enough to help me fight over objectives with out my pheonixs ending up overwhelmed due to lack of melee support?? Aslo you think a loremaster is better than a battle mage?? (I don't personally know i have no experience with either). I guess the lore master buff goes off on a 4 which is a great spell to get off for sure to get buffs off on the birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I believe the loremaster is better than the battle mage. The loremaster also gets to re-roll save rolls when being shot at which is a nice little bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 poked around with the list. Oh many worst mission for these guys border war haha!!! the list i ran with was: Anoited on Flame Phoenix General Anoited on Flame Phoenix Anoited on Frost Phoenix Anoited on Frost Phoenix Battle mage Loremaster 5x Doomfire warlock 5x Sisters of the thorn 3x10x darkshards. Sisters of the thorn were amazing when they went off but my roll on thier spell was terrible. They don't shoot too poorly either. Either way they did really great damage the times it did go off as the damage was nuts when combined with the high +1's to saves the phoenix get effectively mortal wounding for almost every wound they took. They spell difficulty kind of sucking is off set by them getting a shooting attack, and thus being useful for backing the phoenix's up with ranged damage, and hoping to get the spell off for good times. Doomfire warlocks sucked pretty bad. While the spell was strong they did not much more than the dark shards for the points, and so i might drop these guys in favor of something fun. Flame phoenix's were great!!! BUT!! they stepped on eachother's toe's a little bit. Being able to drop nukes of enemies with out really have to roll to get it off felt very nice, and let me combo them with the frost pheonix's in combat. That said they pheonix's ahve such a big foot print it's hard to have them all dancing together as the dance floor runs out of space quick. Really fun with this is retreating out of combat against the one or two stragglers only to them up on the way out toward the next sight of action. Good buff bot general falling the frost pheonix and burning stuff on the way allowing reroll charge and wound rolls.. Frost phoenix very good. Two is just enough to have gang up on a single unit or two. They do well over two turn in combat and the -1 to hit makes them stand and fight. Damage is great over the two or thre turn sequence before your next turn. The fire pheonix definitly lacks in this part as, and makes the frost pheonix put out more damage over multiple turns. The first brother helped them out a lot though. As it sucks if they get bogged down, and the fire pheonix carpet bombing to get the frost pheonix out of combat was important. Loremaster!!! @chord and @Tizianolol great advice on the loremaster pick up. Which i could link your post again. The reroll was very nice and the spell going off on a 5+ made it a consistent spell that was an important part in giving me a consistent save. One draw back was that he had a tough time keeping up on feet. Batllemage Life surge also did well keep the phoenix's around got two good heals that let a phoenix live 2 turns longer than it should have which was big. As good for staying in the 0-2 wound range with a nice side heal and buff. Darkshard: money. Tough buggers for a 100 point shooting unit. Why do they get shields?? can hardly model them with the shield. Abit weird, but they are cool dudes, and it fun throwing lots of dice, feels good for no reason. Dropping the doomfire warlocks and a flame pheonix from the list: The Other flame pheonix is good and did cool stuff, but it's hard to get that many bird jumping around each other they get into each others way too much. Going to add a celestial hurricanum in it's place as it adds some need it punch while at the expense to a lot of my staying power. The Huricanum will be there just so if i need it i get 2 spells on a 4+ (mystic shield and life surge) to make sure i get clutch shields to protect the bird, and it still gives me that drive by mortal wounding power, while also boosting the overall damage of the army. I'll also ahve room for one more unit of dark shards to hold down the flanks, and support the birds in combat with out also gett in the way of the dancing birds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Good Feedback! With that many phoenix I can imagine it would be hard to get them all into combat together. Interesting to hear about the dark shards I'll have to look into them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 10 hours ago, mmimzie said: poked around with the list. Oh many worst mission for these guys border war haha!!! the list i ran with was: Anoited on Flame Phoenix General Anoited on Flame Phoenix Anoited on Frost Phoenix Anoited on Frost Phoenix Battle mage Loremaster 5x Doomfire warlock 5x Sisters of the thorn 3x10x darkshards. Sisters of the thorn were amazing when they went off but my roll on thier spell was terrible. They don't shoot too poorly either. Either way they did really great damage the times it did go off as the damage was nuts when combined with the high +1's to saves the phoenix get effectively mortal wounding for almost every wound they took. They spell difficulty kind of sucking is off set by them getting a shooting attack, and thus being useful for backing the phoenix's up with ranged damage, and hoping to get the spell off for good times. Doomfire warlocks sucked pretty bad. While the spell was strong they did not much more than the dark shards for the points, and so i might drop these guys in favor of something fun. Flame phoenix's were great!!! BUT!! they stepped on eachother's toe's a little bit. Being able to drop nukes of enemies with out really have to roll to get it off felt very nice, and let me combo them with the frost pheonix's in combat. That said they pheonix's ahve such a big foot print it's hard to have them all dancing together as the dance floor runs out of space quick. Really fun with this is retreating out of combat against the one or two stragglers only to them up on the way out toward the next sight of action. Good buff bot general falling the frost pheonix and burning stuff on the way allowing reroll charge and wound rolls.. Frost phoenix very good. Two is just enough to have gang up on a single unit or two. They do well over two turn in combat and the -1 to hit makes them stand and fight. Damage is great over the two or thre turn sequence before your next turn. The fire pheonix definitly lacks in this part as, and makes the frost pheonix put out more damage over multiple turns. The first brother helped them out a lot though. As it sucks if they get bogged down, and the fire pheonix carpet bombing to get the frost pheonix out of combat was important. Loremaster!!! @chord and @Tizianolol great advice on the loremaster pick up. Which i could link your post again. The reroll was very nice and the spell going off on a 5+ made it a consistent spell that was an important part in giving me a consistent save. One draw back was that he had a tough time keeping up on feet. Batllemage Life surge also did well keep the phoenix's around got two good heals that let a phoenix live 2 turns longer than it should have which was big. As good for staying in the 0-2 wound range with a nice side heal and buff. Darkshard: money. Tough buggers for a 100 point shooting unit. Why do they get shields?? can hardly model them with the shield. Abit weird, but they are cool dudes, and it fun throwing lots of dice, feels good for no reason. Dropping the doomfire warlocks and a flame pheonix from the list: The Other flame pheonix is good and did cool stuff, but it's hard to get that many bird jumping around each other they get into each others way too much. Going to add a celestial hurricanum in it's place as it adds some need it punch while at the expense to a lot of my staying power. The Huricanum will be there just so if i need it i get 2 spells on a 4+ (mystic shield and life surge) to make sure i get clutch shields to protect the bird, and it still gives me that drive by mortal wounding power, while also boosting the overall damage of the army. I'll also ahve room for one more unit of dark shards to hold down the flanks, and support the birds in combat with out also gett in the way of the dancing birds. Nice! This is very similar to an actual list I've been toying around with. Mine is: 260 Frostheart Phoenix [General] 260 Frostheart Phoenix 280 Flamespyre Phoenix 320 Hurricanum 100 Battlemage 220 Sisters of the Thorn 200 10 Executioners 100 10 Darkshards 100 10 Darkshards 100 10 Darkshards 40 Gryph Hound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Oh yeah the gryph hound seems very cool, but one seemed like it would be hard to place in a way where he'd be really effective, also storm casr stuff has me abit nervous to buy while the books right around the corner. What makes you want to frost pheonix as your general?? Is it to use the more offensive artifacts or?? I like the flame one because he doesnt feel so tied down so ge can alwaye move to provide buffs while still doing abit of his damage. The current list is Anointed on flame (generql/reckless) Anointed on frost Anointed on frost Hurricanum Battlemage (light or wild form) Loremaster 5x Sisters of the thorn 20x glade gustd 10x Darkshard 10× Darkshard 1980 Went with glade guard as them with hurricanum, loremaster, and thier -3 rend could let me snipe a big threat early on if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Lyons Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 On February 2, 2017 at 1:21 PM, mmimzie said: What makes you want to frost pheonix as your general?? Is it to use the more offensive artifacts or?? I like the flame one because he doesnt feel so tied down so ge can alwaye move to provide buffs while still doing abit of his damage. I kinda like having the frost phoenix as a general for the exact opposite reason. I want my general (and his reroll bubble) to be a static thing on the battlefield so I can navigate into it appropriately. For the Fire Phoenix, I want to be able to retreat and disengage from combat as appropriate and not have to worry about where the bubble is or if my general can pass over a unit and remain close enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlsaganjrjr Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 Considering only 2 Phoenix and no shards to leave room for an extra unit of executioners, glade guard, and Sorceresses who enjoy a +2 to cast and have a nice - 1 to hit spell. Haven't tested this out. Want to tune it a bit more before sitting down to paint.. Any thoughts or experiences? LeadersAnointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (260)- GeneralAnointed Of Asuryan On Frostheart Phoenix (260)Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (320)Battlemage (100)Sorceress (80)Sorceress (80) Battleline10 x Dreadspears (80)10 x Dreadspears (80)10 x Glade Guard (120) Units10 x Executioners (200)10 x Executioners (200)5 x Sisters of the Thorn (220)Total: 2000/2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzai Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 I'm surprised that no one has suggested a Sypreheart Warhost Battalion. If your going to be running multiple Phoenix'es, I would think it would be an auto include. It requires one annointed, 2 Phoenix guard, 2-4 Phoenix'es of any variety. Any enemy unit within 9 inches of a Phoenix takes a d3 mortal wounds. It's the 2nd best mortal wound delivery system Aelves have. The best being dragon spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzai Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Here is a sample list that I would try running. Flamespyre Warhost-100 Annointed on a Flamespyre Phoenix-280 Frostheart Phoenix-260 Frostheart Phoenix-260 Phoenix Guard-200 Phoenix Guard-200 Reavers-160 Reavers-160 Reavers-160 Loremaster-100 Bolt Thrower-120 Total: 2,000 The formation lets you dish out mortal wounds for each Phoenix that is in range. The Reavers are great harassment and fill the battle line requirement. Bolt thrower's main job should be snipping backfield support characters. The Loremaster can boost the bolt throwers or Phoenix'es in assault. I really like this list actually. I'll have to see if my wife would like to try it out with her High Elves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 @bonzai doesnt work. First pheonixs in the battalion cant be annoited after FAQ, and the anoited in the battalion must be on foot. This is because the word in the battalion must be bold to allow you to use keyword, otherwise you have to use the name as it appear at the start of the war scroll. Which makes the battalion kinda meh because if you dont have the anoited you lose wittness to destiny. I have updated my list quite agressive, and have refined it to deadly perfection. It now only contains 2 phoenixs but has more wizards and juicy combos. This is my write up of the pheonix list in general and what units work best in this list and why. Latest list: Heros: Anointed Frost Phoenix Anointed Frost Phoenix Lore Master Archmage Mistweave saih Spell weaver Battline: 20 Glade Guard 10 Dark Shards 10 Dark Shards Other: 5 Sisters of the thorn 5 Sisters of the thorn 5 wild riders This list works abit better than nefore. 3 pheonixs are still abit clunky next to eachother, and eats into wizard count. The wizards getting off spells is what is most important for the phronixs, and in this list we have 6. 5 of which can cast spell on the first turn. We have some really strong combos: the point of the list) (6 wizards + phoenix) mean the pheonixs reliably get a 2+. Wanderer tank package (2× sister of the thorn, wild riders, spell weaver) The spell weave spell gets a lot of milage on the wanderer mounted units; you get D3x 2wounds. The sisters can then give the wild riders throns and mystic shield. I've realuzed if i give my pheonixs +3 or +4 to thier save that no one would attack them if they had thornes, and they'd instead retreat. Target deletion. (Lore master + glade guard). This combo can delete 15 wounds of stuff off the table once per game, or later throw 15 none rending wounds. Really nice killer. I tried a secons unit, but if i shoot with one deleting comvo the other glade guard unit will get shot off the table. Other units reason being being. Darkshards are suprizingly tough to melee, and do a good job of hold thr backlinr until pheonix or shooting support arives. Mistweaver saih is sooo good i dint know why it isnt used a lot?? Vost nothing and has a better long range arcane missle if needed, and can get a 1+ save once per turn . This is my newest model so it lack some testing, but on paper its bonkers. Archrmage protects the other mages and can cast its spell from turn 1 which is important for the phronix's early save. Later i the game the only wizards that tend tp be left are the sisters and the lore master. The archmage gives me a chsnce to keep more mages alive lonher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aezeal Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Target deletion. (Lore master + glade guard). This combo can delete 15 wounds of stuff off the table once per game, or later throw 15 none rending wounds. Really nice killer. I tried a secons unit, but if i shoot with one deleting comvo the other glade guard unit will get shot off the table. What combo exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted April 22, 2017 Author Share Posted April 22, 2017 8 hours ago, Aezeal said: Target deletion. (Lore master + glade guard). This combo can delete 15 wounds of stuff off the table once per game, or later throw 15 none rending wounds. Really nice killer. I tried a secons unit, but if i shoot with one deleting comvo the other glade guard unit will get shot off the table. What combo exactly? Sorry 15 is the math with a celestial hurricanum there as well. It's actually 13 average wounds. Lore master spell lets you reroll to hit and to wound. 20 x Glade guard can get rend -3 once per game. These guys put out 13.33 damage average with rerolls after all the math. So effectively you get to delete 13.33 wounds of stuff once per game. Which is pretty nice as most thing lose thier natural saves. This can be come more powerful and more realistic with bigger glade guard units, but then you put a bigger target on the glade guard back. These have a 26" threat range as well which is nice, so they can potentially do thier damage firs turn. Again more over you can add a second glade guard unit and fire the big -3 shots twice, but then odds are you can only realistically get one of these to stay on the table for any realistic amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 15 hours ago, mmimzie said: Sorry 15 is the math with a celestial hurricanum there as well. It's actually 13 average wounds. Lore master spell lets you reroll to hit and to wound. 20 x Glade guard can get rend -3 once per game. These guys put out 13.33 damage average with rerolls after all the math. So effectively you get to delete 13.33 wounds of stuff once per game. Which is pretty nice as most thing lose thier natural saves. This can be come more powerful and more realistic with bigger glade guard units, but then you put a bigger target on the glade guard back. These have a 26" threat range as well which is nice, so they can potentially do thier damage firs turn. Again more over you can add a second glade guard unit and fire the big -3 shots twice, but then odds are you can only realistically get one of these to stay on the table for any realistic amount of time. Lore master's spell only affects one model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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