New Player: What Faction to Pick for Competitive Play?

[Gauche]

Hello, sorry if this isn't the appropriate place to post this but the New Player Board seemed more of a meet and greet area than a place to post questions. If I'm incorrect please move this thread where it should be, with my thanks.

With that out of the way, hello! I am one of the many new players who's decided to give AoS a whirl and see if it can reinvigorate my love for the tabletop hobby. I've posted a fair few questions to Reddit but having discovered this forum today I figure it's a much better place to get some answers.

A bit about me first off: I started playing 40K during 3rd Edition and Fantasy during 8th, as well as excursions into Malifaux and other small games. I also played Warmachine for quite a long time, probably about half of the MkII duration for those of you familiar with that system. During all that time I've been very competitive in my local state meta (Arizona) and that is where my focus always falls: to being competitive and winning games. This will range from building my own competitive lists to net-decking and following the competitive meta where it leads, depending on opposition and the tone of the game I'm playing (casual vs. tournament). I never play fluffy armies or intentionally mediocre/bad lists as this isn't fun for me.

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With that out of the way, I am enrolled in a Slow Grow League at my FLGS, which seems like a great way to build up a collection and learn the ropes. I also have access to all the books for the various armies and the General's Handbook which I will be spending some time with this upcoming week. I have already delved into quite a few Battle Reports, read some blogs/discussions, etc. since research is my through and through habit.

Unfortunately I've been unable to come to grips with a Faction that catches my eye, so here I am. I've put together a list of what I'm looking for in terms of play style in hopes of finding what will work for me. Please note that aesthetics are not important to me so I haven't included that, I've played so many armies in so many games over the years and always been able to make the look of my models work through conversions and painting.

Play Style: Conservative/Defensive.

I have always been a more reactionary player. I prefer to have options on the approach, typically via ranged attacks and/or screens. AoS seems to be mostly about aggression, which is fine, but there are always levels of aggression. A Khorne army screaming across the table would not fit my style but an Elven army with some bows might.

Army Style: Balanced

I have always favored a balanced army in terms of tookit and model count. Large armies often have issues with maneuverability and bringing numbers to bear while Deathstar/Wonder Friend armies can have issues with covering the board/Scenario play. My favorite lists have always locked down with chaffe, punched with the heavy stuff. An example of this is 8th Edition Skaven where I would pin with Slaves, flank with Giant Rats/Abomination. The nearest I've seen to this in AoS (I've seen very little) is an army of Goblins/Heroes on Mounts.

Requirement: Capable of "Tier 1" Lists

This can be off-putting to some but I don't enjoy playing armies that don't have the capability of constructing a top level list with regards to competitive play. It's inevitable that some Factions are weaker than others, or for AoS the Factions within the Orders. I am a tournament minded player and going to events with a disadvantage before any dice are rolled or models are placed is not something I enjoy. Luckily from what I've seen poking around some tournament results, as well as the upcoming Invitational, the variety in the game seems good.

Preference: Tactical Options/Shenanigans

Even if blunt armies are effective, and they are, I get very bored with simply smashing my opponents face in via large monsters or hordes of dudes with knives. I find that having meaningful decisions about my own army keeps me engaged in the game, keeps my opponent from feeling like neither of us did anything and someone simply won, and accelerates my ability to improve my play. This doesn't have to be a Rube Goldberg machine of effects and synergies, although those can be fun, but it's nice when my gameplan changes from game to game and I feel there's a toolbox to dig through instead of opening a toolbox and only finding an axe inside.

Preference: Flexibility

As I've alluded to, I prefer my lists to be able to answer a great many questions while asking 1-2 major questions. An example of this is an army I played for Orks in 40K. It was 6 Units of Boyz with Nobz, attached fighty HQs, and a load of S:7 guns. This list could deal with most anything through volume of attacks or through preserving quality of attacks (Characters/Leaders with high Str weapons) and had a powerful ranged presence. At the same time I was asking the question: Can you kill my 150+ models?

These types of skews seem less powerful in AoS (which is good for the games health) due to Characters putting out a high volume of attacks and Battleshock but I hope my point was illustrated. It's important that I can make a list which can answer any question, whether that be a hard skew with regards to one phase of the game or a skew towards type of models.

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Well, thanks for anyone who read through that way too long explanation and has some words of advice for me. What Order should I pursue, what Faction within that Order, why? If I can chime in with additional information that may be helpful I will do so but I feel like I've been a bit too exhaustive.

[BaldoBeardo]

There are options in the compendium lists, but based on existing Battletomes you're looking at Stormcast.
Definitely capable of shenanigans and Tier 1 lists, good ranged options, has most unit tropes available.

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[RuneBrush]

I'd suggest not limiting yourself to a single sub-faction as there are some warscrolls that benefit across the whole of a Grand Alliance.  As @BaldoBeardo says, Stormcast would be a pretty good starting point/core for the army, rock solid on the table, but with enough models to hold objectives and dish out a bit of damage.

[Gaz Taylor]

Personally what I would do is choose an Grand Alliance with the models that you find the most interesting/exciting and take it from there. Pretty all Grand Alliances are 'balanced' against each other. For example, for this year's UK Masters, we have a fairly even spread of lists across the factions (see below for more details). To me this says that they are all fairly balanced against each other and it's more of a choice to choose what you want to play with.

Also would be worth watching the Warlords GT coverage on the Warhammer TV YouTube channel as well as checking out the Warhammer Twitch channel to get an idea about what you want to do. 

[Nubgan]

You are probablt better to look for a Grand Alliance you like by the sounds of it. Some of the Sub-factions are a little bit one trick pony, Stormcast as mentioned are quite flexible for most of your requirements, but probably lack the shenanigans you crave.

I myself have been looking at single Sub-factions to collect because traditionally I value an armies appearance and look, but given how accessible the tornament scene is getting in the UK at the moment I might look at something that streches across a Grand Alliance. I don't know how competative the lists are, but Warhammer TV have had some really cool looking armies that sit in Grand Alliances rather than sub-factions and it does tempt me to look at this for my next AoS project. At least if you do it this way, you can pick and choose things that suit everything you mentioned.

[kozokus]

I would direct you to differents paths.

As stated above, Stormcast Eternals have a lot of shenanigans and are extremely flexible. Currently, the main way to play them is full teleport list that can deploy anywhere and throw a bunch of things ni the opponent face turn1 ...or not. the ability to keep things off table and bring them when and where you ant is something you might please. They are both shooty and fighty in equal measure but lack hordes units. The only choice of Monstruosity they have is both shoot/cc. They are perfectly capable of making deathstar or tarpit units. They deal a quite good number of no-save dammage and are vulnerable to them too.

I would also direct you toward the Destruction Grand Alliance as a whole. Currently, there are no sub-faction that seems more interesting than picking things here and there and keeping the amazing Destruction alleigeance that allow destruction armies to walk D6 faster every turn. hThe things to pick are  :

-Beastclaw raider's monsters, one is VERY shoot, the other is indestructible

-Moonclan's goblins, numerous and resistent with shenanigan's fanatic

-Bonespiltter's Kunnin'rukk, A formation of archers, very deadly.

-plenty of other things all worthy but too numerous to notify here. Gitmob assassins, big spiders...etc

All you said made me think this would please you.

 

The Death faction is currently THE GRIND™ faction with multiple way of putting models back and cumulating ward saves and the Chaos faction is lackluster for the moment apart from very specific one-trick-pony .

[Azure Guardian]

To echo what has been said here it seems the Stormcasts are up your alley. They have a few Battalions that can help them make up their lack of moment and the army size tends to be pretty small since their battleline is about half the size of the average army in AoS. Another idea you might like is looking into something like Slaves to Darkness, as they have a similar outline to the Stormcasts but can be added to other Chaos forces with keyword changes. With a lot of Khorne and Nurgle already out and big Tzeentch release coming up, it would give you some flexibility in deciding what you like playing.  

[Requizen]

While the above comments are a good guide (though I think you're looking more for Sylvaneth or a mixed Chaos list than Stormcast, personally), I'm just gonna go ahead and say that any Grand Alliance can do what you're looking for at least to a degree. There is a TON of flexibility in AoS, and unless you're focused on sticking to a single Faction (only viable for a few of them), the ability to pick and choose can let you set up an army exactly as you like it. 

[Gauche]

First of all thank you so much for the replies, it's been very useful.

I have to apologize for my use of the word Faction, I meant the Grand Orders and was just using the wrong vernacular. As I probably illustrated in my OP, I'm not one to minimize my options just to stick to something super specific. Hopefully that makes sense. :]

A lot of people have recommended Stormcast and I will look into them. As @Requizen said, Sylvaneth is very interesting to me but I haven't gotten a chance to crack their book, mixed Chaos has also had some interesting lists and seem to do Magic well.

My only hangup about Stormcast is they seem extremely vanilla. Every game I've watching with them, they're Space Marines. They shoot pretty well, they fight pretty well, they have good saves but all the units are relatively samey. Also good Saves seem like a huge drawback in this game outside of being immune to Rent, or being able to stack Saves because Mortal Wounds or buckets of dice are common. I get the impression that stacking Wounds and/or Bodies is the way to go. Again, these are the first impressions of a novice to the game.

Also I did look over the Invitational Lists and will watch the coverage after the fact. I'm trying to pick an Alliance soon so that I can get my 500pts assembled as my League starts next week and I'm pretty excited. :]

 

[daedalus81]

I would wait and see what kind of developments arise from the Tzeentch book next week as it will paint the direction for new factions and possibly changes to the previously released ones (eventually).

[Gauche]

Unfortunately I don't know that I have that kind of time, depending on the release date.

[Requizen]

Stormcast are a bit "samey" to be honest (and this is coming from someone who loves his). You have a bunch of 4+ dudes with similar statlines, who are all above average at their jobs. They're the Vanilla list of the game, not the best at anything but passable at everything. Not a huge variety in units, but enough to have differing roles. 

Chaos is nice if you're looking to mix sub-factions because there's so much specialized varieties. Khorne for bashy, Nurgle for tanky, Slannesh for speedy, Tzeentch for shooty/magic, Skaven for shooty/tricksy. And then of course things within those groups have their own synergies. Order has this as well. There are less overall options in Death and Destruction for variety, but the things they have are good. Destruction does very little aside from running forward and murdering (Kunnin Rukk aside), Death does very little aside from being hard to kill and having big scary things supported by a million little things, but they're very good at doing that. 

If you want a lot of variety and tricks, I would stick to Order or Chaos, personally.

[Gauche]

3 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Stormcast are a bit "samey" to be honest (and this is coming from someone who loves his). You have a bunch of 4+ dudes with similar statlines, who are all above average at their jobs. They're the Vanilla list of the game, not the best at anything but passable at everything. Not a huge variety in units, but enough to have differing roles. 

Chaos is nice if you're looking to mix sub-factions because there's so much specialized varieties. Khorne for bashy, Nurgle for tanky, Slannesh for speedy, Tzeentch for shooty/magic, Skaven for shooty/tricksy. And then of course things within those groups have their own synergies. Order has this as well. There are less overall options in Death and Destruction for variety, but the things they have are good. Destruction does very little aside from running forward and murdering (Kunnin Rukk aside), Death does very little aside from being hard to kill and having big scary things supported by a million little things, but they're very good at doing that. 

If you want a lot of variety and tricks, I would stick to Order or Chaos, personally.

Those were the Alliances that most had my eye with limited knowledge. I love Orcs, always loved Orcs, but they always play so boring in every game.

[Soulsmith]

Greenskins certainly have variety and balance if you played mixed.

[Thomas Lyons]

Nurgle Mixed Chaos (with Sayl) would meet those requirements as well.

 

[daedalus81]

1 hour ago, Gauche said:

Unfortunately I don't know that I have that kind of time, depending on the release date.

We'll have copies in our hands by the 21st, but usually we get quite a few leaks on the Friday prior to preorder.

[Requizen]

1 minute ago, daedalus81 said:

We'll have copies in our hands by the 21st, but usually we get quite a few leaks on the Friday prior to preorder.

Which is tomorrow. Likely you'll see some online personalities spilling the beans on rules and the like by end of tomorrow, Saturday at the latest. See if it jumps out at you. I have very little doubt that there will be at least one hyper-competitive army in that book. Hoping to make an army of mostly Tzaangors myself  

[Gauche]

3 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Which is tomorrow. Likely you'll see some online personalities spilling the beans on rules and the like by end of tomorrow, Saturday at the latest. See if it jumps out at you. I have very little doubt that there will be at least one hyper-competitive army in that book. Hoping to make an army of mostly Tzaangors myself  

I have always been a fan of Chaos in general and they do have some lists that I like currently, the Stormfiend + Flying trick seems particularly fun. I will keep an eye out this Friday.

Is there any good breakdown of Sylvaneth? They have a huge thread but it's impossible to read and understand at this point.

[Azure Guardian]

If you have an hour free this is a good display of some Sylvaneth 

From what I have played against them, they seem very much about divide and conquer. Dryads keep important units busy whilst Kurnoth's and Tree Lords pelt them from the sides. Tree Revenents can teleport to take objectives or flank important targets behind the battle line. Then with all the trees they can summon you essentially bog down your opponent.    

[Chickenbits]

Although you might not have the time to wait, the new Tzeentch books sounds exactly like what you're after. Lots of shenanigans, and I Think it'll have abillities that deals with the iniative roll, something that is *very* important in tournament-level play.

 

There's also the Seraphon Kroak + Vortex list. A bit samey, but very high tier.

[Gauche]

5 hours ago, Chickenbits said:

Although you might not have the time to wait, the new Tzeentch books sounds exactly like what you're after. Lots of shenanigans, and I Think it'll have abillities that deals with the iniative roll, something that is *very* important in tournament-level play.

 

There's also the Seraphon Kroak + Vortex list. A bit samey, but very high tier.

I am leaning towards Chaos at the moment. I like a lot of the Nurgle and existing Tzeentch stuff, so that would give me a chance to have a selection of currently good lists and expand with the new stuff if necessary. I have a particular fondness for dice fixing.....