Competitive FEC

[L.Bromley]

So I have been making loads of death lists recently and am taking FEC to a local tournament, but since the FAQ can FEC only be competitive if you include ghoul patrol?

here is my list

Ghoul king on zombie dragon 

red fury - cloak of shadows

Necromancer 

Crypt Ghast 

Crypt Haunter 

Cursed book

9 crypt horrors

20 Ghouls

20 Ghouls

20 Ghouls

3 Flayers

Ghoul Patrol

2000 on the nose.

what do you guys think?

 

[Thanatos Ares]

Looks solid, why red fury out of interest?

Personally I'd go with GK on Terrorgheist and take ruler of the Night. So with his spell he gets armour save and then 2x 5++ saves aswell


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[L.Bromley]

So before the FAQ my go to option was red fury and the ring, you could afford to be super aggressive with general and have a get out of jail card if he bit off more than he could handle but would cause a bucket load of damage in the process.

i feel the cloak is really similar but potentially better, extended movement in order to get into key positions, red fury still does all the damage but the reason why I now think the cloak is better than the old ring is the ability to leave combat in the hero phase, weather it be to run away and start to regen some wounds, or go claim an objective whilst your oppenent thinks they have you locked in combat.

Another positive is it can help you get into position to help buff the other FEC with both its ability it offers other units (re roll 1s ghouls/re rolls to hit for the horrors) an then his spell gives you a re roll to wound bubble which is why I just think he pips the terrorgheist

[L.Bromley]

Thinking about it I may trade the necro for a Ghoul king on foot just for the unit buffs

 

[Dez]

My feeling is that the Tomb Blade might be a better pick, the ZD is pretty fast anyway. The Tomb Blade will help earn back those wounds faster and help compensate for the loss of the Ring.

*My opinion is theoretical, while I've bought 2 Start Collecting boxes I haven't played any games and no one around here plays FEC.

[L.Bromley]

I used to play one of each of the big beasties and whilst I was winning in kill points I just could not compete on the objective front so I just kept losing or scrapping minors an never majors.

As for tomb blade I don't really feel that FEC need it, there is regen all over the board so nots a necessity in my opinion, it is a must though in other death armies, I'm thinking about giving it to my mounted wight lord in my mixed death army.

[Grimnaud]

FEC has been my main army since I started playing AoS on a regular basis, so I'll shoot in my two cents. In my experience FEC is a strong army in any sort of regular play with the various buffs and regens we can get, but in hardcore competitive play it is hard to ramp up the lists as much as the top tier armies. In order to compete it is therefore imperative that we play to our strengths. 

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So I have been making loads of death lists recently and am taking FEC to a local tournament, but since the FAQ can FEC only be competitive if you include ghoul patrol?

Abattoir, Ghoul patrol, or the Royal Menagerie can all be competitive IMO, but they all require you to tailor your lists and your play style. Menagerie is a one trick pony betting everything on that alpha strike with the three beasties, but if the trick works, then it works. Abattoir could potentially be a nightmare to play against if you max out the two units of horrors and the unit of ghouls, then fill up with courtiers to keep those three units coming back. The ghoul patrol is so often seen because it amplifies one of the great strengths of the FEC; our regen. For 100 points you get some deployment shenanigans plus d6 regen tied directly to each unit of ghouls. The deployment rules can be a double edged sword, since you need to make up for the first round of movement that you lose. A bad deployment can leave the unit completely out of the game. The d6 regen is pure gold. As it stacks with any courtiers within range, it makes a ghoul patrol unit one of the most annoying units from GA:D to deal with.

 

To me the other great strength of the FEC, after regeneration, is the ability to give out and get buffs. One of the main reasons I don't use Flayers are that they can't be buffed as well as Horrors. Those are the two strengths I try to maximise when I try to play competitively. With that in mind, lets look at your list 

First of all, I'd advice you to shift the numbers of your ghoul patrol around so that you get a unit of 30. That will not only let you keep the unit alive longer, it also lets you retain the +1 attack bonus longer and more consistently. I know it might sound weird, but if you can buff them up a unit of 30 ghouls can be both a hammer and an anvil.

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Thinking about it I may trade the necro for a Ghoul king on foot just for the unit buffs

Second, definitely keep the Necromancer. Both horrors and ghouls are absolutely deadly with Van Hels on them. More than worth his points. Especially because third, in my experience ridden beasties are not worth their points. Now I know that's not a popular opinion around here, but those are my two cents on the issue *burp*. Ridden beasties will die. There are too many points tied up in them for your opponent to ignore or for you to keep safe in your backfield. Now that the ring is completely worthless it is almost inevitable. And here's the thing; if I loose a ridden beastie I not only loose his combat potential, I also loose all the buffs he can hand out. I need those buffs. They're invaluable to my games. I would rather add another twenty points to have a GK on foot and and unridden ZD/TG. Then I don't really care all that much when the beastie dies, and it forces my opponent to choose between targeting the king or the beastie.

As an aside, if you like the Flayers then go for it, but I'd consider adding a Vampire Lord as your general. You've already included a necromancer, so why not get a command ability that will actually do some good?

[AlexanderHemedinger]

Basically everything said by @Grimnaud is accurate. This is coming from my experience as well playing FEC very competitive and intend on bringing them to LVO as well.

I utilize the vampire lord as a general to allow my 30 man unit of ghouls to burst out an additional melee attack guaranteed.  That's 4 attacks right now. Also the Vampire lord should be using a mystic shield on a unit of ghouls also. He's a win/win.

I also use the Aborghant on foot cause his ability also is like the vampire lord, just casting value 6. Which now can make a unit of ghouls have 5 attacks each.

Necromancer is a must because now your damage output becomes even stronger. His points pay for himself, and put him on a Nightmare for more move distance of course.

Wight king is actually a good hero, he was recently added because it's another save that can help in numbers. Run him, trust me....

The ghoul patrol formation is certainly the best and the output is amazing even with just one Ghour Courtier in addition for the d6 per unit. Maximizing it with 3 units of 30, it almost guarantees your buffs.

The one I am on a toss between is the additional save with Terrorgheist, or the reroll wounds with Zombie Dragon. I have yet to have a concern losing an entire unit even against some pretty nasty Thundertusks/Stonehorns.

In conclusion the ghouls can be seriously nasty and do a lot of damage especially against a horde army. Again, here's my list in case you never saw. I didn't put any artefacts due to ring taking a huge faq hit...You can pick your own.

Also not a fan of other units right now, as ghouls provide the best value for synergistic purposes. I'm also maximizing the heroes due to certain senarios. In LVO they will allow us for sideboard which I was thinking about it....

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King (100)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon (400)
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Night
Necromancer (120)
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)

Units
Crypt Ghouls x 30 (300)
- Battleline
Crypt Ghouls x 30 (300)
- Battleline
Crypt Ghouls x 30 (300)
- Battleline

Battalions
Ghoul Patrol (100)

Total: 1960/2000

[wayniac]

To be honest from what I've seen the way to "competitive" FEC is twofold:

1) Ghoul Patrol, preferably with huge units

2) Add non-FEC things (e.g. Vampire Lord, Necromancer, Wights)

Neither of which appeal to me, sadly

[L.Bromley]

@wayniac yeah I feel the same, looks like I will just go with mediocre FEC

[wayniac]

Just now, L.Bromley said:

@wayniac yeah I feel the same, looks like I will just go with mediocre FEC

To be fair though, I find nothing wrong with that in most cases.  I mean, for me in particular I don't play very competitive anyways (I find narrative games with a story are a lot better) but I get the idea if you want to be competitive branch out to other things, it just feels out of place especially with FEC although like, the idea of a ghoul necromancer (I had the idea of using an old Necrarch Vampire) as a "Court Wizard" is cool, adding Wights and non-Ghoul Vampires seems like it's going against the spirit of the army.

[ThePhyx]

I agree with most people, your list is pretty solid.

To those suggesting Ruler of the Night, I find it is less bang vs red fury. This is because the extra +1 only applies to the Deathless Minions 10" bubble around the General. This is clarified in either the errata or faq, can't remember. Whereas getting another round of attacks with your General is huge!! Only way you don't get it is if you roll like carp and can't manage to get at least 6 damage through.

[TerrorPenguin]

Does Red Fury apply to the rider and the mount if your general is mounted? 

[Thanatos Ares]

I believe so yes


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[L.Bromley]

@TerrorPenguin yeah Jon both the ghoul king and zombie dragon get to attack again if if roll low enough for red fury.

 

[wayniac]

7 hours ago, TerrorPenguin said:

Does Red Fury apply to the rider and the mount if your general is mounted? 

Yes, because they are the same model, there's not a separate set of stats for the monster.

I normally like Red Fury because its nice to wreck something, but since I mainly use a King on Terrorgheist I think Ruler of the Night is better for that one (double 5+ bonus saves, or bonus save on a unit further than 10"), with Red Fury better on the Zombie Dragon because it is more offensive.