Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Retro]

I love the blood thirsters too.

It Would be awesome to see the council of blood in there too but you'd have to lose either priest or secrator to do it. Don't think it's worth it!

[Tubs]

Why are people even considering taking a murderhost now? Seriously it's 120 points for a once per game movement at 20 points it's was awesome for less drops and a free artifact. There's far better options for that now Blood hunt, Blood council, Skullseeker

[Render]

2 hours ago, Tubs said:

Why are people even considering taking a murderhost now? Seriously it's 120 points for a once per game movement at 20 points it's was awesome for less drops and a free artifact. There's far better options for that now Blood hunt, Blood council, Skullseeker

I'm still considering taking Murderhost. A few thoughts why: 

• Given the cost reduction for 30 Bloodletters, it's possible to fit in Murderhost for only a ~40 point increase vs. pre-GHB2017. 
  • For example: I'm considering taking 2x30 Bloodletters, 1x5 Flesh Hounds, and a Skullmaster. Previously this would have cost 820. It now costs 860.
• The vast majority of battalions saw cost increases too - eg. Skullseeker now at 140,  Blood hunt now at 130, among many others - so your question really applies to battalions as a whole, and it's a very valid question that many people are asking. 
  • Council of Blood is a rare exception not seeing a significant increase, and that (only with point decreases to BTs) is likely why more people are talking about it.
• With Murderhost and the right supporting units (WoK BT, Bloodstoker), it's very much possible to pull off a first-turn charge for your Bloodletters. Also being able to easily drop a unit of 30 Bloodletters on an objective where a unit of 20+ models wins the objective right out of the gate isn't a bad thing.
• Bloodletters are very strong units. Many people will likely already be taking them anyway. There isn't necessarily a "tax" that you must pay for units that you otherwise would not be taking. That can't be said for all battalions.

Also, while I like the benefits they offer, I'm not a huge fan of the battalions you mention. It's a combination of not thinking the units are strong enough (Blood Crushers) and not having the models.

[Tubs]

All the battalions received points increases but the murderhost received the largest increase

Murderhost 20-120 6x

Bloodhunt 30-130 4.3x

Skullseeker 40-140 3.5x

Charnel Host 40-140 3.5x

Daemon leigon 80-160 2x

Bloodhost 120-220 1.8x

Bloodcouncil 80-110 1.3x

I see your point about only having to take the units you want aka letters but this applies to many of the other battalions too. Now that you can't duplicate artifacts you can't cover all your heralds in Crimson crowns.

With a stoker and Wok your letters can move a minimum 10" then a charge plus 4" 

You could take a Charnel host which is the Fury thirster and 3 units of letters now the letters can pile in the hero phase and attack. The Furt thirster got a 40pt reduction too and is a pretty good candadite for the Crown. 

Don't get me wrong I loved the murderhost I run a double murderhost with Msu letters at a recent tournament in NZ and took out 2nd I'm just unsure if it's a must take now for Khorne daemons

 

[Render]

Yep I hear you on the 6x increase. It feels big, but the way I think about it is just the reduced drop count and the extra artifact being costed at around 100 points, given that most battalions saw a ~100 point increase. And yeah, who knows if it's "must-take" from a competitive standpoint - time will tell.

Good callout on Charnel Host - I've been intrigued by it since BoK came out. I just worry about the lack of movement (though 2D6 on MH doesn't provide any guarantees...). Have you ever run it?

 

[Koalaninja]

Hey Khorne people. With the new handbook can I still use chaos warriors marked with Khorne as battleline choices in a Blades of khorne army and retain the overall allegiance? Can I include chaos knights marked as Khorne without using up my allies points? Will throw a big spanner in the works for me if this is not the case. 

Thanks!

[TheWilddog]

12 hours ago, Tubs said:

Why are people even considering taking a murderhost now? Seriously it's 120 points for a once per game movement at 20 points it's was awesome for less drops and a free artifact. There's far better options for that now Blood hunt, Blood council, Skullseeker

The fact that it puts you a lot of the way to a first turn charge is the big incentive.  Bloodletter bombs are soooo good, and people are missing Sayl.  The Murderhost was already being used to replicate Sayl's ability before he was nerfed.  Now it is the only way to get that effect for buffed up Bloodletters ( in combination with a WOK Thirster and a Stoker and such), seems like a logical switch to maintain a popular style of play. 

[Killax]

So many new Khorne players here!? Thats wonderful!

Well Ive just picked up the GH2017 and am a bit late to the party. However what I can say is that Murderhost was too good at 20 points anyway, in all fairness it should likely have costed around 60 to 80 from the start, so with that in mind I think one shouldn't worry about it costing 120 now in relation to the others. As has been mentioned, moving up 2d6 per Bloodletter unit is allready excellent and even moreso because the WoK Bloodthirster has recieved a nice discount also. Granted I am not all to certain about running any Battalion anyway. Though if there is one competitive Khorne Battalion it will indeed be Murderhost.

What I also find very important to mention is that Bloodthirsters are awesome but Id be less inclined to run a multitude of them. Instead I would spend those points into more Bloodletter bombs, Bloodstokers and Wrathmongers.

The fun fact is that not too much changed in any grand way for us. Other than The Goretide being more or less removed. Things I deem to be great choices instead of many fancy Battalions would indeed be:
- Bloodletter bombs (30)
- Bloodreaver swarm (40)
- Skarr Bloodwrath, now actually a good guy for his 80 points.
- Bloodthirster generals, all of them are now at that cost where you can seriously consider running one.
- Khorgoraths for homebase objective holding and/or support. 
- Skullcrushers as shock troops, same role they always had but now considerably cheaper.
- Wrathmongers, who in my opinion more than ever are worth all their points because of the Bloodsecrator not stacking. Running 1-2 Bloodsecrator with 1-2 Wrathmonger units just seems like a brilliant plan to me. Largely also because I expect an increase in Monsterplay also.

Last but not least, Murderhost was very relevant at it's low cost also because of how well certain armies could shoot off characters for cheap. That business has been decreased in efficiency, which furthermore makes the bodycount a powerful tool for us, as it always has been.

Sidenote: I will update the Blood Tithe cards soon aswell, based on the last FAQ.

Cheers,

 

[phizzco]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Sidenote: I will update the Blood Tithe cards soon aswell, based on the last FAQ.

Cheers,

 

Thank you!

[Jharen]

@Josh Sticking with the core of that list you've got there, I'd say swap the Slaughterpriest with Karanak, and then swap the Bloodmaster Herald for Skulltaker.  Alternatively you could drop the Slaughterpriest for another Bloodsecrator if you wanted a backup.  Either way I don't see you getting much use out of a Slaughterpriest in that list, as you're going to be playing the dice for him to be either useful or a complete waste 50/50.

 

[Josh]

1 hour ago, Jharen said:

@Josh Sticking with the core of that list you've got there, I'd say swap the Slaughterpriest with Karanak, and then swap the Bloodmaster Herald for Skulltaker.  Alternatively you could drop the Slaughterpriest for another Bloodsecrator if you wanted a backup.  Either way I don't see you getting much use out of a Slaughterpriest in that list, as you're going to be playing the dice for him to be either useful or a complete waste 50/50.

 

good point! appreciate the reply, its a rather expensive army to buy so just working things out and chip away at it

[Killax]

16 hours ago, Tubs said:

All the battalions received points increases but the murderhost received the largest increase

The factor doesn't matter though. Most Battalions where increased with a 100 points. Notable exceptions are those who are very Hero designed or Artilery designed.

I made a massive post but unfortunatly the whole write up was lost due a site update in the middle of it... But to make a very long story short I feel these 3 Battalions are the best we have to offer right now, simply because they thake the most advantage out of the fact that they support larger units very well and those larger units recieved an excellent cost discount on their maximum size. This is how the influence of the added cost can be minimized and the effects of these Battalions are all very good.

1. Murderhost, thake a WoK BT, Bloodstoker, 3 units of maxed Bloodletters and see how fast you can do a Sayl 2.0  
2. Charnel Host, all these included units recieved great discounts, there is nothing wrong with fighting twice with Bloodletters.
3. Bloodforged, a former underdog now boosting massive Bloodwarrior Death Stars.

The others I think will stick around would indeed be Brass Stampede, Gore Pilgrims and maby even see Gorethunder Cohort show up because it only recieved a 50 point increase. The downside however of the 180+ point Battalions is that they directly compete with Wrathmongers. A maxed Brass Stampede doesn't care too much about that but Gore Pilgrims most certainly should. Lastly I too like the idea of Council of Blood and while it only recieved a 30 point boost the Bloodthirsters are still not very much equiped for handling 30+ block units and they will have to under GH2017.

All in all I will say that Im going to pick up another unit of Wrathmongers. It's a shame Skullreapers and Bloodcrushers got treated the way they did but hey all the more love for Bloodletters, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers I guess. Next to that I think Skarr is mad fun and most certainly worth the 80 points. Slow as heck but a nice bomb. Id add him if Id found the points, Bloodstokers matter more first with these obscenely huge blocks.

Warhammer Fantasy Deathstar flashbacks return...

[Tubs]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

The factor doesn't matter though. Most Battalions where increased with a 100 points. Notable exceptions are those who are very Hero designed or Artilery designed.

I made a massive post but unfortunatly the whole write up was lost due a site update in the middle of it... But to make a very long story short I feel these 3 Battalions are the best we have to offer right now, simply because they thake the most advantage out of the fact that they support larger units very well and those larger units recieved an excellent cost discount on their maximum size. This is how the influence of the added cost can be minimized and the effects of these Battalions are all very good.

1. Murderhost, thake a WoK BT, Bloodstoker, 3 units of maxed Bloodletters and see how fast you can do a Sayl 2.0  
2. Charnel Host, all these included units recieved great discounts, there is nothing wrong with fighting twice with Bloodletters.
3. Bloodforged, a former underdog now boosting massive Bloodwarrior Death Stars.

The others I think will stick around would indeed be Brass Stampede, Gore Pilgrims and maby even see Gorethunder Cohort show up because it only recieved a 50 point increase. The downside however of the 180+ point Battalions is that they directly compete with Wrathmongers. A maxed Brass Stampede doesn't care too much about that but Gore Pilgrims most certainly should. Lastly I too like the idea of Council of Blood and while it only recieved a 30 point boost the Bloodthirsters are still not very much equiped for handling 30+ block units and they will have to under GH2017.

All in all I will say that Im going to pick up another unit of Wrathmongers. It's a shame Skullreapers and Bloodcrushers got treated the way they did but hey all the more love for Bloodletters, Bloodwarriors and Bloodreavers I guess. Next to that I think Skarr is mad fun and most certainly worth the 80 points. Slow as heck but a nice bomb. Id add him if Id found the points, Bloodstokers matter more first with these obscenely huge blocks.

Warhammer Fantasy Deathstar flashbacks return...

I'm going to give this a run on Sunday 

Leaders
Bloodthirster Of Unfettered Fury (260)
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown  
Bloodmaster, Herald of Khorne (80)
Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General
- Trait: Slaughterborn  
- Artefact: Deathdealer  
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)

Battleline
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)

Units
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

Battalions
Charnel Host (140)

Total: 2000/2000

Will be interesting to see how it plays out
 

[Josh]

keen to see how it goes!

[Retro]

I'm toying with idea of running a max size brass stampede (7x3 units of crushers) as the basis for a 2000pt list.

It comes in at 1300 points. Has anyone given this a go or have thoughts? 

I'm not really sure what to add after that but considering some minimum battalions of either bloodforged, gore pilgrims or blood hunt (karanak + flesh hounds)

[Roark]

15 hours ago, Koalaninja said:

Hey Khorne people. With the new handbook can I still use chaos warriors marked with Khorne as battleline choices in a Blades of khorne army and retain the overall allegiance? Can I include chaos knights marked as Khorne without using up my allies points? Will throw a big spanner in the works for me if this is not the case. 

Thanks!

Yes to both. They're both Blades of Khorne when marked thus.

[Killax]

@Tubs Seems like a solid list to me! Especially if you want to run double Bloodthirsters  

@Retro You can certainly go for Brass Stampede, it's just quite the list and investment, most I know get bored by the massive quantity of Juggernauts to paint. The list in itself has what it thakes though! One downside with all these upcomming massive units is that Juggernauts thake up quite the space meaning you can't always get as many of them into combat as one might have liked.

The return of the Death Star seems confirmed aswell to me, not only because of just nice large core blocks but also the crazy potential Blood Warriors have as a huge block with Wrathmongers and/or Gore Pilgrims, buffing it into infinity  

Cheers,

[Koalaninja]

2 hours ago, Roark said:

Yes to both. They're both Blades of Khorne when marked thus.

Thank you for the confirmation.

[Bowlzee]

Ran the following list last night against a Changehost with Karios. It was the new Border War , Battle for the Pass (I think).

Quote

Allegiance: Khorne
Daemon Prince of Khorne with Axe (160)
- General
- Trait: Immense Power 
- Artefact: Mark of the slayer 
Skarr Bloodwrath (80)
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Artefact: The Blood-forged Armour 
Slaughterpriest with Hackblade and Wrathhammer (100)
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxe & Gorefist
- 1x Goreglaives
40 x Bloodreavers (240)
- Reaver Blades
10 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
1 x Chaos Warshrine (180)
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Gore Pilgrims (180)

Total: 1920/2000

I lost the game, but it was extremely close through out, and some key things happened.

1. I didn't lose a double turn. I think I would have really struggled vs it.
2. I forgot about Blood Tithe, until the 3rd round. I could have used it to unbind the spell that killed my BloodSecrator.
3. I failed long charges that could have seen my Fleshhounds swamp his objective  

Overall a great game. I'm going to sum up a few moments/units.

First up 10 Chaos Warriors tanked an  entire Magic phase... Everything was thrown at them.

Will definitely keep these guys in for all the mortalwounds flying around.

 

Blood Warriors, were a bit of a fail. Gorefists don't help when mortal wounds are flying everywhere. Dual Axes is definitely the way forward. I think they are most useful wen backed up by Wrathmongers and the Banner to increase the number of attacks

Reavers in 40. Look awesome on the battlefield, with the Banner and Warshrine they stick around pretty well.

Daemon Prince, was a monster in combat. If it wasn't for some great saves by the LoC (3 5+ saves vs D3+1 damage attacks) he would have easily chomped through it. Mark of Slayer is great! Worked well with the Fleshhounds that I ran in support with him.

Fleshhounds were ok. They are quick, and give threat but bit of a wet squib in attacks, especially as they are usually out of Banner range. Mark of Slayer helped though.

Skarr was brilliant. I just leroyed him up the battlefield. He took some shooting, but made it into combat where he killed quite the few Pinks and Brimstones before finally dying....  I then resurrected  behind his lines, and charged his objective. Wiping the Brims that were holding it. Sadly there were 2 characters nearby (on terrain that I couldn't reach)  preventing me from taking it. But in other scenarios/different armies he could be super useful.

Loved Gore Pilgrims. Being able to reroll those prayers on the Priests was great, and the 30" range on the Banner is a fantastic. I will definitely keep this for the time being.

 

Changes:

Skarr is great vs horde, but it's still only -1 rend and 1 damage. I'm not sure if I would be better suited to taking a Skullcannon. Yes It's still not great, but I had nothing to threaten the Guant Summmoner on Balewind. The Priests were shot/magiced  before getting close enough for their prayers.

I could drop the Fleshounds and not resurrect Skarr and take a Skullcannon. 

Thoughts?

 

Here are some pictures from the game, it looked amazing on the battlefield...

 

[Arkiham]

you dont have alot of LoS blocking terrain in the centre of the battlefield. it looks like you've gone for a ruined city look but it still helps. i might start a thread on examples to use and try get some input...

 

but as we discussed on whatsapp. i think we gotta suck it up an start trying to deploy some khannons. one shot to the face and that puny wizard could be dead, the damage to the LoC would also have been helpful and with the increasing chances of hordes theres a much higher chance of the to hit being 2+ rather than 3+ so all in all it could not work out that bad 

[RuneBrush]

I'm currently toying with adding in a unit of Ungor raiders with bows to my Bloodbound.  Unit of 40 for 360 points, 4+/4+ with re-roll to hits of 1 & 2 whilst there are 30 in the unit.  They can make a bonus move after deployment and have a theoretical threat of 24".  Sounds pretty reasonable, though they'll likely fold as soon as anybody focus fires on them (which would buy a reprieve for the other units).  Thoughts?

[Killax]

Cant see the pictures Bowlzee posted but think the list looks mad fun. Running without 80 points feels odd though, a Khorgorath could have been easily added or the Fleshhounds could have been upgraded to Wrathmongers. In any case we all have to work with what we have and I think that the list in itself is cool enough!

For Gore Pilgrims in particular though I would certainly suggest tesing the Blood Warrior Death Star. 30 of those with all the buffs and beefs is certainly to control any point at the table and if that's the key battle your likely winning the game right on the spot then and there. 

Otherwise keep up the cool list brewing! Cheers,

[Render]

2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

I'm currently toying with adding in a unit of Ungor raiders with bows to my Bloodbound.  Unit of 40 for 360 points, 4+/4+ with re-roll to hits of 1 & 2 whilst there are 30 in the unit.  They can make a bonus move after deployment and have a theoretical threat of 24".  Sounds pretty reasonable, though they'll likely fold as soon as anybody focus fires on them (which would buy a reprieve for the other units).  Thoughts?

Same here! Even a unit of 30, despite being less efficient, still has the potential to take off a squishy hero in one turn. If you're taking first turn, you'd still get the 30+ bonus. If not taking the first turn, they'd be an even more tempting target, thus drawing fire away from other units as you suggest (unless you just keep them out of threat range). While 40 seems the better move, I think 30 is still viable.

What are others' thoughts on Ungor Raiders?

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Cant see the pictures Bowlzee posted but think the list looks mad fun. Running without 80 points feels odd though, a Khorgorath could have been easily added or the Fleshhounds could have been upgraded to Wrathmongers. In any case we all have to work with what we have and I think that the list in itself is cool enough!

For Gore Pilgrims in particular though I would certainly suggest tesing the Blood Warrior Death Star. 30 of those with all the buffs and beefs is certainly to control any point at the table and if that's the key battle your likely winning the game right on the spot then and there. 

Otherwise keep up the cool list brewing! Cheers,

a firm wind will blow those guys down... 6+ save and bravery 4.

 

unsure if things can get much worse than that

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Cant see the pictures Bowlzee posted but think the list looks mad fun. Running without 80 points feels odd though, a Khorgorath could have been easily added or the Fleshhounds could have been upgraded to Wrathmongers. In any case we all have to work with what we have and I think that the list in itself is cool enough!

For Gore Pilgrims in particular though I would certainly suggest tesing the Blood Warrior Death Star. 30 of those with all the buffs and beefs is certainly to control any point at the table and if that's the key battle your likely winning the game right on the spot then and there. 

Otherwise keep up the cool list brewing! Cheers,

the 80 points was for skarr resummon 

[Killax]

Ah cool, no need to do that though in my opinion, Skarr is a nice little Fanatic which is the best distraction Hero we have in my book. Swarms beware and all that. 

Still wouldnt resummon him though, the more pieces the better.