Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[Jharen]

35 minutes ago, ledha said:

Another version is to replace the unit of chaos warriors by 10 bloodreavers and using those last 20 pts to push the unit of bloodwarriors to 30. I wonder which is best : 30 bloodwarriors for 520 pts, or 24 for 500 pts, but who have a reroll of wound roll of 1 ?

I think both options have their pros and cons.  The Bloodreavers certain offer you more flexibility on how to use them. They bring the model count up which offers you more area control and may help with objective capturing. as well as being a bit more offensive if you need to rush them into something.  The Chaos Warriors though, if equipped with shields, may actually hold out a tad longer.  Really it's a pretty even trade out so I wouldn't worry too much over it and I like the use of the new 5 model minimum of warriors here just because.  Keeping the Bloodwarriors at 24 for the rerolls on wounds is smart use of the battalion bonus that usually goes ignored.  You're missing out on one model, sure, but the to wound roll is the weakest point of a Bloodwarriors attacks and you're helping them out with the rerolls in that area.

Overall your list looks good, though I fear the lack of mobility may do you in.  Closing the gap is going to prove a challenge against ranged forces. Something to consider at least.

[ledha]

Thanks for your answer ! however, what do you think of the first list ?

Against ranged armies... well, i have nearly more than 150 hp with a 4+ save and some invulnerables. It's not easy to kill, and sufficient enought to at least reach the middle lane and sit on the objectives

[Jharen]

@ledha  Yeah sorry forgot about the first list there.  Solid, I like the inclusion of the warshrine (one of my personal favorites when I run a Bloodmarked warband).  Sending it in surrounded with Bloodwarriors and reavers can truly cause your opponent pause, especially if you get lucky on your rolls with the mortal wound save.  The mobility is still concerning of course, and while you have the ward save of the Shrine, that is playing the dice quite a bit.  Against a heavy ranged army you have to consider the likelihood that you're going to lose at least one critical unit/hero before reaching the front lines with this list, possibly two.  That may be less likely now on account of changes in GHB2017 to ranged forces costing more, but it's still something I'd want to take into account.

[ledha]

yeah, but sadly, mortal khorne don't have anything to protect themselves from ranged attacks, and nothing to improve their mobility, except to now too expensive goretide, or lot of chaos knight/mighty skullcrusher, models that i don't have and think are very bad except in a brass stampede

[Tizianolol]

For 160 you can have a demon prince of khorne!! You have a battalion so you have access to two artifacts!! He can fly and he is pretty strong melee!! He gives you mobility for sure!! The problem Is that he Is not so tanky so care about deploy/moves:)

[Jharen]

8 minutes ago, ledha said:

yeah, but sadly, mortal khorne don't have anything to protect themselves from ranged attacks, and nothing to improve their mobility, except to now too expensive goretide, or lot of chaos knight/mighty skullcrusher, models that i don't have and think are very bad except in a brass stampede

Actually Skullcrushers are on par with Bloodwarriors for their number of attacks (Skullcrushers actually come out slightly ahead).  They also have the option of having either rend or a 3+ to hit.  Where the difference sits is that Bloodwarriors then get to attack again when they die.  Skullcrushers however aren't as subject to damage fall off due to loss of model count (it takes more wounds to remove a sequence of attacks from the table per model), and they're tougher to kill thanks to their shield.  They also offer possible mortal wound output on the charge and bring an 8" move.

They're both very different tools for different purposes in my opinion, but damage potential between the two of them is not as far off as it would first appear so don't be too quick to pass them up.  Granted, if you don't own any of course it's about building off what you have at the moment, so yeah I get that.

[ledha]

the goreglaive alone make the bloodwarriors ahead of the skullcrusher for me.

[Jharen]

True the goreglaive helps make up the difference between them and the Skullcrushers ability to cause mortal wounds.  Again the difference is quite small and circumstantial.  Both are on par with one another in my opinion, they just both serve different functions.  It's why I usually run both   Skullcrushers start pulling ahead I think once you learn how to use them in specific situations (stacking mortal wound charges by carefully placing them within 1" of multiple units etc).  You certainly don't NEED to take them in a Khorne army, I just felt I should point out that they aren't nearly as useless as people seem to think they are outside of a Brass Stampede.

[misthv]

4 hours ago, ledha said:

I wonder which is best : 30 bloodwarriors for 520 pts, or 24 for 500 pts, but who have a reroll of wound roll of 1 ?

Umh, 30 for 520 pts is WAY better. And you can always stoke them to get that re-roll ;-)

[Xasz]

Instead of being productive I tried to brainstorm some lists.

I'm still not sure in which direction the new Handbook will take us.

Allies seem not really enticing. Slaves to Darkness appear to be better with Tzeentch/Fatesworn. Other than that, I'm not a big fan of Skullreapers, 180 is a steep price for a unit that can selfdamage/requires setup, especially if the unit is footslogging. (while 140 was surely too cheap...)

Neither do I find big units of Blood Warriors tempting. (lack of defensive capabilities while StD can do something similar and better)

Bloodmarked Warband:

Spoiler

Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
Valkia The Bloody (140)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Bloodstoker (80)
Skarr Bloodwrath (80)

10 x Blood Warriors (200)
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
6 x Mighty Skullcrushers (280)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)

40 x Bloodreavers (240)
2 x Khorgoraths (160)

Bloodmarked Warband (100)

Total: 1920/2000
 

Bloodreavers are not part of the warband. I reserved 80 points to rezz Skarr.

I don't find it particular easy to write a Bloodmarked list. You know you'll have about 5 heroes which instantly leaves you with 4 units tops to "summon" new heroes.

Wrathmongers might be funny as heroes, making even a single unit more annoying. They could be thrown out of the Bloodmarked Warband in favor of the Bloodreavers. I'm not entirely sure which way is better.

One thing I thought about, is reserving at least 270 points to summon a big unit of Bloodletters via blood tithe, but I don't have enough experience with this battalion to know how reliable it would be.

Bloodforged:

Spoiler

Mighty Lord Of Khorne (140)
- General
Skullgrinder (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Bloodstoker (80)
Valkia The Bloody (140)
Skarr Bloodwrath (80)

10 x Blood Warriors (200)
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
6 x Mighty Skullcrushers (280)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
5 x Wrathmongers (180)
2 x Khorgoraths (160)

Bloodforged (140)

Total: 1980/2000

Never was a big fan of double Wrathmongers but what can you do. The Skullgrinder is actually pretty cool with the right artifacts.

Murderhost + Gore Pilgrims:

Spoiler

Skullmaster, Herald of Khorne (100)
- General
- Trait: Slaughterborn 
- Artefact: The Crimson Crown 
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Bloodstoker (80)
Valkia The Bloody (140)

30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)

5 x Blood Warriors (100)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)

Murderhost (120)
Gore Pilgrims (180)

Total: 1990/2000

300 points into battalions hurt. Nevertheless, still maintaining a nice model/wound count.

Murderhost:

Spoiler

Wrath Of Khorne Bloodthirster (330)
- General
- Trait: Arch-slaughterer 
- Artefact: Crimson Soulstone 
Skulltaker (100)
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Bloodsecrator (120)
Bloodstoker (80)

30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)
30 x Bloodletters (270)

10 x Bloodreavers (70)
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
2 x Khorgoraths (160)

Murderhost (120)

Total: 1980/2000
 

I wasn't sure if the Gore Pilgrims are worth it alongside another battalion, so I tried to compensate the missing range of the Bloodsecrator portal with another one. They would just play a little bit of relay race and adding redundancy.

 

Any thoughts on the lists or what the future brings for us?

I find it rather difficult to build Khorne right now, while something like StD/Fatesworn builds itself.

[Centuryslayer]

Yeah what allies would you bring with? Blades of Khorne at least gets blood tithe when they die so there's that

I was pondering wether that warherd ally box might be good. But the big guy seems so squishy to me.

I don't really have any heavy hitters or anything tankier than a few blood warriors currently.

[Jharen]

@Xasz  The murderhost + Gorepilgrims list is almost identical to one I was gonna run against a buddy of mine.  The silent response I got from telling him the list made me not run it   I opted for the friendlier less "Bloodletter destroy your soul and fun" approach of another list in the end, but yeah... if your local allows stacking prayers then Slaughterpriests bringing bloodletters to a rerolling 1's and mortal wounding on 2+ is hilarious.  and mean.  but hilarious.

[Silchas_Ruin]

1 hour ago, Centuryslayer said:

Yeah what allies would you bring with? Blades of Khorne at least gets blood tithe when they die so there's that

I was pondering wether that warherd ally box might be good. But the big guy seems so squishy to me.

I don't really have any heavy hitters or anything tankier than a few blood warriors currently.

I been looking too and have not really come up with anything making me want to go away from all khorne

[phizzco]

I was painting up a storm and almost bought the skirmish box, with a plan on how i was going to play. now all this has kinda got me deflated... not sure what i want to do.

 

[Jharen]

Allies for Khorne are tricky, yeah.  It gives us access to shooting, but then we don't really get enough points to spend to make a single shooting unit really worth taking.  We have a few key things that come to mind though, not that they're amazing, but that they provide us something we don't otherwise have access to or help us be better at what we're already good at.

 

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - Wizard with a good ability and spell that can help us be even better in combat.  Also gives us access to Mystic Shield which can help us tank up where needed.  Khorne doesn't like magic, sure, but he's got no problem with magic that helps in combat to shed more blood!

Chaos Warhounds - Fast.  Like, really fast!  10 inch move with an ability that makes them always run 6" extra.  If you're aiming to cap objectives before your opponent can stumble over their starting line then they're handy.  Also looks cool on the table to see hounds darting ahead of your barbaric horde!

Brayherds - Like the warhounds they're going to bring mobility to your force, with maybe a bit more punch than the warhounds.  Good for putting the pressure on your opponent fast with some cheap troops while the main of your force comes in the second wave.

 

[Render]

Spoiler

28 minutes ago, Jharen said:

Allies for Khorne are tricky, yeah.  It gives us access to shooting, but then we don't really get enough points to spend to make a single shooting unit really worth taking.  We have a few key things that come to mind though, not that they're amazing, but that they provide us something we don't otherwise have access to or help us be better at what we're already good at.

 

Chaos Sorcerer Lord - Wizard with a good ability and spell that can help us be even better in combat.  Also gives us access to Mystic Shield which can help us tank up where needed.  Khorne doesn't like magic, sure, but he's got no problem with magic that helps in combat to shed more blood!

Chaos Warhounds - Fast.  Like, really fast!  10 inch move with an ability that makes them always run 6" extra.  If you're aiming to cap objectives before your opponent can stumble over their starting line then they're handy.  Also looks cool on the table to see hounds darting ahead of your barbaric horde!

Brayherds - Like the warhounds they're going to bring mobility to your force, with maybe a bit more punch than the warhounds.  Good for putting the pressure on your opponent fast with some cheap troops while the main of your force comes in the second wave.

 

 

Good suggestions. For Brayherds, I've been toying around with the idea of Ungor Raiders. Their Vile Invaders ability allows for 6" move at the end of deployment. Run and shoot means 6" regular move + D6+1" (banner), then 18" shooting range. I assume you could run during Vile Invaders too, meaning an extra D6+1. Solid threat range, particularly in the first turn with the movement shenanigans. With 30+ models, hitting on 4s rerolling 1s and 2s could lead to decent damage output, potentially enough to snipe off a squishy hero. That said, the super low bravery scares me, and I'd be tempted to just run 30 more Bloodletters instead.

I'm also curious about Festus the Leechlord, due to Curse of the Leper. Casting value of 7 with 14" range, Subtract 1 from save rolls for the affected model for the rest of the game(!). I figure this could be a good way to soften up tough targets, but I haven't ever tried him. Does anyone have experience with Festus? Any good?

[Xasz]

Gaunt summoner of Tzeentch is worth a consideration IF the meta becomes super horde-heavy. (from the Everchosen allegiance)

[Jharen]

32 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Gaunt summoner of Tzeentch is worth a consideration IF the meta becomes super horde-heavy. (from the Everchosen allegiance)

I did consider him, but the casting value on his spell is rather high, which in an army where you're getting no boost to cast rolls (outside possible arcane terrain) I felt it was a bit too much of a gamble.

Edit: Actually my mistake, the one from Everchosen has a casting value to the bravery, which is nice and good vs hordes as you said.    Good catch. I'd looked at the wrong one previously!

[Retro]

Anyone know how Balewind vortex works with allegiance? It would make the silver tower gaunt summoner with familiars pretty deadly as an ally.

4+ mystic shield and 6+ infernal flames.

[Mune]

Vortex should be no problem, but I'm not sure about the gaunt with the familiars.

If I get it right, they count as a unit, so the have to be in 1" of each other.

The vortex says only the wizard can get on top, so no familiars.

Well, balewind is about 6-7" I guess, so you would break the formation.

[Xasz]

We can only ally with the Gaunt-version from Everchosen.

The other two are listed under Disciples of Tzeentch.

[Jharen]

46 minutes ago, Mune said:

Vortex should be no problem, but I'm not sure about the gaunt with the familiars.

If I get it right, they count as a unit, so the have to be in 1" of each other.

The vortex says only the wizard can get on top, so no familiars.

Well, balewind is about 6-7" I guess, so you would break the formation.

 

See this thread for your answer:

 

[Mune]

Thx, didnt know this.

For me its still debatable, but I would be fine if my enemy would do this.

[Jaehaerys]

I'm currently toying with just running Pilgrims

B-Thirster Unfettered

Bloodmaster

Bloodsecrator

Slaughterpriest x2

Chaos Sorc Lord on Mant

Bloodletter x30

Bloodletter x30

Blood warrior x10

Reavers x20

Khorgorath

 

Lots of wounds, some prayers, some magic, and MW from the ole' letters. And a cheap as chips Khorgorath thrown in for good measure

[Retro]

47 minutes ago, Xasz said:

We can only ally with the Gaunt-version from Everchosen.

The other two are listed under Disciples of Tzeentch.

But the other 2 still have keyword everchosen, isn't that all that is needed to determine allegiance?