Killax Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, Xasz said: Considering that several "core-elements" of Khorne got hit, this will probably not add up to a happy ending. I largely agree, not for all the same reasons, but I still agree with this message. The way I see it Bloodletters did become better due to ease of summonning a Bloodmaster (only 2 BT) and offcourse Karnak, 90 points, summonning a free 100. But all the other changes are heavy to an army that wasn't in the best place anyway or very much near it for that matter. Plus while BT isn't hard to obtain, it also isn't automatically obtained. What makes Blight Points better for that matter is that your opponent has no saying in it. What I see here and also more or less heard from the Podcast is that Khorne generally doesn't interest the team much. For whatever reason, mixing up 18 BT for 8 BT in a podcast seems to me more like a lack of interest as mistake. Likewise adding summonning at this stage shows a less interest in Khorne design to me. Basically every relevant model/unit went up a lot or recieved a minor cost decrease. Nice as those 10 point cost decreases are they obviously don't hold up to a +50 point increase of Bloodletters or +20 point increase of Bloodsecrators. Now, as we are all fans of Khorne, I think fun can be had, but not at the top tournament tables. By comparison we don't summon that well. Our s(h)tick of hitting with a lot of Mortal Wound and a lot of Attacks is getting very short and unwieldy. I will likely continue to play a Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster General with 2 30 blocks of Bloodletters but how to fill the spaces is an unknown to me. I guess Karanak should be in there as it virtually adds free points, which can cover the 50x2 additional points for those Bloodletters I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elevenist Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Anyone know where I can get the rest of the prayers for the slaughter priest? I only see blood boil & blood bound in the battletome and warscroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, Elevenist said: Anyone know where I can get the rest of the prayers for the slaughter priest? I only see blood boil & blood bound in the battletome and warscroll. Page 85 - BoK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elevenist Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 19 minutes ago, Xasz said: Page 85 - BoK. Thank you kind Sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlackSVW Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 There is a unboxing video from WargamerOnline on Youtube and in this one you can can see the second page of Khorne point values. Mighty Skullcrushers and Wrathmongers are unchanged and Skullreapers go down to 170. Battalions are hard to read but almost every Battalion got changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 50 minutes ago, JetBlackSVW said: There is a unboxing video from WargamerOnline on Youtube and in this one you can can see the second page of Khorne point values. Mighty Skullcrushers and Wrathmongers are unchanged and Skullreapers go down to 170. Battalions are hard to read but almost every Battalion got changed. Meh. If the pixels are not misleading me, I could decipher the following relevant changes for us. Bloodmarked is +60, Blood Hunt +50 Bloodbound Warhorde -80 Bloodforged +20 The Bloodlords -40 Brass Stampede +20 Charnel Host +60 Council of Blood +40 Daemon Legion of Khorne +20 Gore Pilgrims +20 The Gorechosen +10 Gorethunder Cohort -20 The Goretide -10 Murderhost +100 The Reapers of Vengeance +60 The Skullfiend Tribe -50 Skullseeker Host +30 Skulltake -10 Slaughterborn -20 Battalions not listed, stayed the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdequateWargamer Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Cynical view: wok -10pts.. This is more for StD or other armies to ally in wok + bloodstoker @ 400pts than it is for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 I can't help myself and think about the changes and their impications. I really expect a shift back to mortals, a 10 man unit of Reapers should be better than Bloodletter now. Goretide might become a thing again. The setup lost ~70 points, has almost no tax units, helps mortals with one of their greatest weaknesses and the MLoK got cheaper + might be more survivable Karanak will pay for himself in many cases stacking battalions became even more unreasonable, except in some border cases But how do we exploit summoning? Welcome to the Blood Factory. Gore Pilgrims with maxed heroes and min. units Bloodmarked Warband with Skarr (or another weak hero if his ability is changed) this basic setup costs 1050 points we still have to fulfill the Mortal Khorne Unit requirement for BmW add a Warshrine and cost efficient StD/Khorne units of your choice all priests take Blood Sacrifice and kill Skarr asap now the fun/recursion begins, you spawn 1 wound hero units which are instantly killed by following prayers Blood Sacrifice is now worth 2 points instead of one, permanently and Skarr can still come back joyfully summon a WoK by turn two and something big in each subsequent turn If the wording of some warscrolls does not change, this should be possible and I pretty much ignored units dying normally. There is a good chance this is god-awful or a less focused list might be better but it sounds abnormally funny. (something to remember, this whole army would be immune to battleshock while having a good 6++ coverage. There would be several small units to threaten objectives or clog them up and although squishy this can be really obnoxious. Especially if killing them would mean helping your opponent doing their thing, ergo summoning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdequateWargamer Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 So, does this turn the murderhost into: 2 x 30 bloodletters 6 x 5 fleshhounds 1 blood throne 1 secrator 1 bt unfettered fury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAdequateWargamer Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 22 minutes ago, Xasz said: But how do we exploit summoning? Welcome to the Blood Factory. Gore Pilgrims with maxed heroes and min. units Bloodmarked Warband with Skarr (or another weak hero if his ability is changed) this basic setup costs 1050 points we still have to fulfill the Mortal Khorne Unit requirement for BmW add a Warshrine and cost efficient StD/Khorne units of your choice all priests take Blood Sacrifice and kill Skarr asap now the fun/recursion begins, you spawn 1 wound hero units which are instantly killed by following prayers Blood Sacrifice is now worth 2 points instead of one, permanently and Skarr can still come back joyfully summon a WoK by turn two and something big in each subsequent turn I volunteer!* *pending prayers being rule of 1'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Unfortunately this looks like what I feared for Khorne. Most of our units were uncompetitive AoS 2, and we may have been made even more so. Thankfully I mostly play Narative so can balance this out myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 So I think these point changes make sense from a business point of view. The units I very rarely see have gotten point reductions. Units that are common and form the core of any BoK army have gone up. I don't think is a coincidence , if they didn't go up then most of would have zero need to buy new models since we have them already. I'm slightly bummed cause this puts my army just over by about 20 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 In another thread, it was mentioned that Marauders now have a minimum size of 20. 1 hour ago, TheAdequateWargamer said: *pending prayers being rule of 1'd That might happen, but I've got a feeling that there will be no more rules of one (or very few). Rule 1, 2, 4 and 5 are already in the new core rules. (page 8 -Casting Spells, 7 - Rolling Attacks, 1 - Roll-Offs, 17 - Artifacts of Power) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Goretide with some reavers to suicide, priest (blood sacrifice). One drop starts with 3 command points, 3 artefacts could be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jaehaerys said: Goretide with some reavers to suicide, priest (blood sacrifice). One drop starts with 3 command points, 3 artefacts could be fun. Priests without Gore Pilgrims are too unreliable, at least in a competitive setting. With the Goretide, you'd rather want something that can bring the hurt while benefiting from the battalion rules. (2x10 Reapers or something similar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaehaerys Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 True, I should know better after the multiple double ones I rolled at SCGT even in Gore Pilgrims Not a fan of Reapers in 10s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asamu Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Xasz said: I can't help myself and think about the changes and their impications. I really expect a shift back to mortals, a 10 man unit of Reapers should be better than Bloodletter now. Goretide might become a thing again. The setup lost ~70 points, has almost no tax units, helps mortals with one of their greatest weaknesses and the MLoK got cheaper + might be more survivable Karanak will pay for himself in many cases stacking battalions became even more unreasonable, except in some border cases But how do we exploit summoning? Welcome to the Blood Factory. Gore Pilgrims with maxed heroes and min. units Bloodmarked Warband with Skarr (or another weak hero if his ability is changed) this basic setup costs 1050 points we still have to fulfill the Mortal Khorne Unit requirement for BmW add a Warshrine and cost efficient StD/Khorne units of your choice all priests take Blood Sacrifice and kill Skarr asap now the fun/recursion begins, you spawn 1 wound hero units which are instantly killed by following prayers Blood Sacrifice is now worth 2 points instead of one, permanently and Skarr can still come back joyfully summon a WoK by turn two and something big in each subsequent turn If the wording of some warscrolls does not change, this should be possible and I pretty much ignored units dying normally. There is a good chance this is god-awful or a less focused list might be better but it sounds abnormally funny. (something to remember, this whole army would be immune to battleshock while having a good 6++ coverage. There would be several small units to threaten objectives or clog them up and although squishy this can be really obnoxious. Especially if killing them would mean helping your opponent doing their thing, ergo summoning) Allegiance: KhorneMighty Lord Of Khorne - GeneralBloodsecrator- Artefact: The Brazen Rune Slaughterpriest (100)- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSlaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSlaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSkarr Bloodwrath (80)5 x Blood Warriors (100) - 1x Goreglaives20 x Bloodreavers (140)20 x Bloodreavers (140)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)Chaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeChaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeGore PilgrimsBloodmarked WarbandTotal: 1970 / 2000 with the updated points Like this? You could generate 8 points and summon a Bloodthirster on turn 1 if you kill Skarr within the first 3 blood sacrifices and don't fail any. It's also a 2 drop list, so you'll be able to decide who goes first pretty regularly. This might actually be competitive, as it has a lot of bodies for contesting objectives. Bloodreavers hit reasonably hard with 2-4 attacks apiece (21-41 4+/4+/-1 attacks from a unit of 10 is not something that can be ignored), and you can get a fresh Bloodthirster every turn as long as you can keep the other player away from your priests and warshrine(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choombatta Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Asamu said: Allegiance: KhorneMighty Lord Of Khorne - GeneralBloodsecrator- Artefact: The Brazen Rune Slaughterpriest (100)- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSlaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSlaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSkarr Bloodwrath (80)5 x Blood Warriors (100) - 1x Goreglaives20 x Bloodreavers (140)20 x Bloodreavers (140)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)Chaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeChaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeGore PilgrimsBloodmarked WarbandTotal: 1970 / 2000 with the updated points Like this? You could generate 8 points and summon a Bloodthirster on turn 1 if you kill Skarr within the first 3 blood sacrifices and don't fail any. It's also a 2 drop list, so you'll be able to decide who goes first pretty regularly. This might actually be competitive, as it has a lot of bodies for contesting objectives. Bloodreavers hit reasonably hard with 2-4 attacks apiece (21-41 4+/4+/-1 attacks from a unit of 10 is not something that can be ignored), and you can get a fresh Bloodthirster every turn as long as you can keep the other player away from your priests and warshrine(s). You need 10 Blood Warriors to take a Goreglaive, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 17 minutes ago, Choombatta said: You need 10 Blood Warriors to take a Goreglaive, correct? Correct. Concerning the list. Double shrines seems wasteful even if it's getting cheaper. I'll also explore StD a bit more. Even if the costs do not change, Chariots, Knights and small units of Knights or Warriors seem interesting for an MSU list and like better options than the BoK units (more offensive or defensive capabilities while being roughly in the same price segment as Reavers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Asamu said: It's also a 2 drop list, so you'll be able to decide who goes first pretty regularly. This seems to be no longer in the game, 1st round is a straight up roll-off and only on a tie the player setting up first decides the order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choombatta Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Xasz said: This seems to be no longer in the game, 1st round is a straight up roll-off and only on a tie the player setting up first decides the order. That actually is not my quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesarius Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Asamu said: Allegiance: KhorneMighty Lord Of Khorne - GeneralBloodsecrator- Artefact: The Brazen Rune Slaughterpriest (100)- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSlaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSlaughterpriest (100) - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeSkarr Bloodwrath (80)5 x Blood Warriors (100) - 1x Goreglaives20 x Bloodreavers (140)20 x Bloodreavers (140)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)10 x Bloodreavers (70)Chaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeChaos Warshrine - Mark of Chaos: Khorne - Blood Blessing: Blood SacrificeGore PilgrimsBloodmarked WarbandTotal: 1970 / 2000 with the updated points Like this? You could generate 8 points and summon a Bloodthirster on turn 1 if you kill Skarr within the first 3 blood sacrifices and don't fail any. It's also a 2 drop list, so you'll be able to decide who goes first pretty regularly. This might actually be competitive, as it has a lot of bodies for contesting objectives. Bloodreavers hit reasonably hard with 2-4 attacks apiece (21-41 4+/4+/-1 attacks from a unit of 10 is not something that can be ignored), and you can get a fresh Bloodthirster every turn as long as you can keep the other player away from your priests and warshrine(s). Hi guys, new Khorne player here. Just wanna ask, I'm abit lost in this combo, mind explaining in detail on how this works? Just decided to join the banner of the Blood God only to find out the nerfs to most of our staples, maybe I've picked the wrong time to join LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xasz Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 45 minutes ago, Vesarius said: Hi guys, new Khorne player here. Just wanna ask, I'm abit lost in this combo, mind explaining in detail on how this works? Just decided to join the banner of the Blood God only to find out the nerfs to most of our staples, maybe I've picked the wrong time to join LOL! It is a take on what I theorycrafted earlier today: 6 hours ago, Xasz said: But how do we exploit summoning? Welcome to the Blood Factory. Gore Pilgrims with maxed heroes and min. units Bloodmarked Warband with Skarr (or another weak hero if his ability is changed) this basic setup costs 1050 points we still have to fulfill the Mortal Khorne Unit requirement for BmW add a Warshrine and cost efficient StD/Khorne units of your choice all priests take Blood Sacrifice and kill Skarr asap now the fun/recursion begins, you spawn 1 wound hero units which are instantly killed by following prayers Blood Sacrifice is now worth 2 points instead of one, permanently and Skarr can still come back joyfully summon a WoK by turn two and something big in each subsequent turn If the wording of some warscrolls does not change, this should be possible and I pretty much ignored units dying normally. There is a good chance this is god-awful or a less focused list might be better but it sounds abnormally funny. (something to remember, this whole army would be immune to battleshock while having a good 6++ coverage. There would be several small units to threaten objectives or clog them up and although squishy this can be really obnoxious. Especially if killing them would mean helping your opponent doing their thing, ergo summoning) The core of this "engine" are the priests and unending heroes from the Bloodmarked Warband. Skarr is only there for good measure and his resurrection ability, ergo he's not wasted. The Bloodmarked Warband has a very specific ability, when a hero from this battalion is slain, you can choose another model from this battalion and provide it with the hero keyword. It'll get some additional stats and become an individual unit. Congratz, you increased your current amount of units by one and if you've chosen carefully, it will only have one wound in total. Meaning a Blood Sacrifice prayer will kill this new unit outright, therefore yielding not one but two Blood Tithe (prayer + a unit was destroyed). The death of this new hero will trigger the battalion ability again, generating another hero which will then be sacrificed as well... this will pretty much double your Blood Tithe generation through prayers. Overall, the whole idea here is to abuse summoning as hard as possible and with this factory you should be able to summon something juicy every turn (except maybe the first turn, as you'll need some warm up -> killing the first hero from the battalion). Obviously, all this is conceived under the assumption that some warscrolls and rules are staying the same. TBH, the new edition does not bode well for Khorne armies. In contrast, a procession of priests sacrificing some of their own warriors to gain his favour and summon several daemons sounds hilarious. (In my head my general, probably a Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut, is ordering the priests to offer his rivals/gladiators/slaves to Khorne ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asamu Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Vesarius said: Hi guys, new Khorne player here. Just wanna ask, I'm abit lost in this combo, mind explaining in detail on how this works? Just decided to join the banner of the Blood God only to find out the nerfs to most of our staples, maybe I've picked the wrong time to join LOL! Bloodmarked Warband: Whenever a hero from the battalion dies, you may immediately upgrade a regular model from the warband to a hero and grant it +1 attack, and it becomes a separate unit. Blood Sacrifice lets you deal d3 wounds to a friendly unit to generate a blood tithe point, and you also generate one whenever a unit on either side dies. So once you've killed off your cheap 5 wound hero, you can get 2 blood tithe points for every sacrifice by killing the solo 1 wound bloodreaver that you upgraded to a hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Damn, khorne got hit hard i'm a mortal players so it balance out, but -20 for slaughterborn and - 10 for goretide feel like a taunt, its still barely playable. And Khorne have the worst summoning system so far with slaneesh. It's sometime very hard to gain enough blood tithe point in some games, and we need to not use our blood tithe points for this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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