Let's chat : Blades of Khorne!

[ledha]

Any tips against mortal khorne vs fyreslayers ?

 

I fought one  on a 4 square board in 1500 pts and had to surrend turn 2/3 because the vulkite berserker ate the charge of all the army and killed it in two combat phase with the help of the hearthguard

the rerollable save and the 4+ invulnerable save behind mean they just don't care at all and whistand everything i threw at them. 

They have too much stuff. Reroll wound. Reroll save. Invulnerables. Immun battleshock. The whole army have rend-1 and they go to rend-2 with the rune.  Great board coverage both in base and number. Cheap teleportation.

It's insane. Without ranged weapon to snipe their heroes, i don't see how you can manage them with a full melee army

[chord]

4x4 boards are just too small to play on I think. Even at 1k points

[Tasman]

3 hours ago, chord said:

4x4 boards are just too small to play on I think. Even at 1k points

I have to disagree

[Retro]

@ledha

Hero sniping options, I would say slaughter priests and skull canons would be your only real options. They don't really have much in the way of sniping either so would probably work with the priests

[Killax]

10 hours ago, ledha said:

Any tips against mortal khorne vs fyreslayers ?

I fought one  on a 4 square board in 1500 pts and had to surrend turn 2/3 because the vulkite berserker ate the charge of all the army and killed it in two combat phase with the help of the hearthguard

the rerollable save and the 4+ invulnerable save behind mean they just don't care at all and whistand everything i threw at them. 

They have too much stuff. Reroll wound. Reroll save. Invulnerables. Immun battleshock. The whole army have rend-1 and they go to rend-2 with the rune.  Great board coverage both in base and number. Cheap teleportation.

It's insane. Without ranged weapon to snipe their heroes, i don't see how you can manage them with a full melee army

Nobody said it was easy  

What you could consider here is Bloodforged aswell, moreso if you really want to rely on Bloodwarriors, which in itself is a harder thing to do against them specifically. We basically have units for army X, Y and Z but this also means you will have a rough time to cover every army.

One of the reasons why I personally still like to mention a Bloodthirster here is because next to Slaughterpriests or Skullcannons the Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster can actually snipe Heroes decently too, the distance isn't massive but it works out with good model placement, which is key anyway. 

In many cases your opponent feels the same about dealing with Khorne without ranged weapons though. Fyreslayers and Khorne are alike in that if all the support remains it becomes a really problematic army. 

[Praecautus]

So I am playing my first proper big game with Khorne mortals this Thursday, taking on some Tzeentch marked slaves. For both of us this will be our first proper game of AoS - as such we decided no battalions (fewer rules) and approx 1500 points give or take. I am planning to take

Mighty lord of Khorne 

Blood secrator 

Blood stoker 

Slaughter priest w hackblade

Slaughter priest

20 reavers

10 blood warriors w gorefist

10 blood warriors w double axes

3 khorgorath

1 gore chariot

10 bloodletters

should be 1530 if I added it right (eventually this will be a gorepilgrims list once everything is painted)

 

I am a bit unsure about the following, so advice is appreciated

1. which artefact to take - MoD for lord or brazen rune for secrator

2. Run the khorgoraths as 1 unit or split

3. Planning on bronzed flesh and killing frenzy prayers, or some other load out?

4. Any tweaks to the list over the longer term? Over the longer term I plan to drop the chariot and letters from this list, add gore pilgrims, Valkia, skull reapers and wrath mongers. But other thoughts appreciated.

Anyway pics and battle log will follow past Thursday

[Killax]

39 minutes ago, Praecautus said:

I am a bit unsure about the following, so advice is appreciated

1. which artefact to take - MoD for lord or brazen rune for secrator

2. Run the khorgoraths as 1 unit or split

3. Planning on bronzed flesh and killing frenzy prayers, or some other load out?

4. Any tweaks to the list over the longer term? Over the longer term I plan to drop the chariot and letters from this list, add gore pilgrims, Valkia, skull reapers and wrath mongers. But other thoughts appreciated.

Anyway pics and battle log will follow past Thursday

List looks like a solid start so no worries there.

1. Really depends on what you want  The prime advantage of Gore Pilgrims is that your Bloodsecrator doesn't have to be that far upfield but you can also thake both there.
2. I personally prefer split. Easier on the Blood Tithe points and better Flank protectors that way.
3. That's pretty much the cash.
4. I'd personally skip on Valkia and at least have one good block of 30 Bloodletters, Killing Frenzy is obviously very good on them. Other than that your heading in the right direction. If you do want to have an eventual flyer I like the current Bloodthirsters more (roughly twice the cost of Valkia). For 2K it also gives a good center piece.

Valkia is still a nice model but 140 points for her is a lot, she is a fire and forget model and while she snipes a hero quite well we have entered an new age where either oppossing heroes that are relevant are more expensive as 140 points or Valkia can't thake them on at all (Monster Generals). 

[ledha]

and for the cost of valkia, i find the lord of khorne on juggernaut is way better, even if not the general

[Killax]

38 minutes ago, ledha said:

and for the cost of valkia, i find the lord of khorne on juggernaut is way better, even if not the general

Yeah I pretty much agree with this. One other smaller issue Ive always had with Valkia is that she's an good additional named Hero but in general even at 120 wasn't really an amazing deal. Because when we look at it from a competitive aspect there are just a few things that don't really do much or do what we want. If she costed 100 points I think she'd be much more interesting as her Hero sniping reminds me of Slaughterpriests but however I turn it I do think 120 points with Gh2016 was the right cost for her. Simply because assassins like her are very rare for Khorne armies and it doesn't seem like GW wanted to design Khorne with assassins.

Pros:
- Move 12" Flying is offcourse good.
- 3+ Save is good.
- -1 to hit is good.
- Rend -2 and D3 damage on charge is decent.
Cons:
- 5 Wounds.
- The Gaze of Khorne isn't really doing much for our larger numbers and/or immume units (thanks to Bloodsecrator)
- 140 points gets us a Mighty Lord of Khorne, Khorne Lord on Juggernaut, is only 20 points away from a Daemon Prince and roughly half the cost of all our good units.

Now is she lacking anything in particular? Not really, but there just is little need for her specifically. If you want to have acces to possible smaller Hero sniping usually a Slaughterpriest will do it better and going for a Bloodthirster to me personally remains a very valid distraction and support strategy aswell. 

Perhaps if we had more flying units I'd be more into Valkia, at 120 points I did test her with The Goretide which was okay but also when we had that Battalion for a whole different cost. Now at 140 I feel that she's left aside and Skarr came in her place. Skarr at 80 points still feels fine. The only reason why I havn't created lists with either is because I like filling up those spare points with more support. The again, running lists without Bloodthirsters certainly leaves more room for Skarr for example.

[Praecautus]

Thanks everyone, sounds like Valkia is better for friendly games and I should look at an alternative e.g. Jugger lord for a mortal only list. I have some skull crushers so sounds like a hobby project

Then adding in more blood letters and the bloodthirster for the mixed daemon / mortal. That I like as I want to be able to mix and match. Just need to get the models.

[Killax]

19 minutes ago, Praecautus said:

Thanks everyone, sounds like Valkia is better for friendly games and I should look at an alternative e.g. Jugger lord for a mortal only list. I have some skull crushers so sounds like a hobby project

Then adding in more blood letters and the bloodthirster for the mixed daemon / mortal. That I like as I want to be able to mix and match. Just need to get the models.

That's exactly my thake on it aswell. Typically I've found we have room for either a Bloodthirster or Khorne Lord and usually the named characters get skipped due to flexability and good Artefact choices that named characters simply cannot obtain. 

It's a bit of a shame because Valkia does indeed look awesome. I do have plans to test Skarr still though, you can't really go wrong with 80 points even if it's just a bang against a bigger chaff unit. 

[Keldaur]

Silly question about rules. The lord of khorne on juggernaut's weapon has a rule that when he gets a 6 to wound, he deals 3 wounds instead of 1. When paired with the gorecleaver, how does it work ? Thanks in advance.

[Killax]

34 minutes ago, Keldaur said:

Silly question about rules. The lord of khorne on juggernaut's weapon has a rule that when he gets a 6 to wound, he deals 3 wounds instead of 1. When paired with the gorecleaver, how does it work ? Thanks in advance.

Not silly at all mate! Ive resolved it as inflicting 3 Mortal Wounds, it can be wise to ask your local TO or inform your opponent beforehand. 

As I see it you are allowed to resolve abilities (like this) in any order. So what you would do is change the damage to 3 and then have it resolve as Mortal wounds.

[Render]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Not silly at all mate! Ive resolved it as inflicting 3 Mortal Wounds, it can be wise to ask your local TO or inform your opponent beforehand. 

As I see it you are allowed to resolve abilities (like this) in any order. So what you would do is change the damage to 3 and then have it resolve as Mortal wounds.

And throw in his Command Ability with +1 to Wound on the charge and the recent FAQ stating that abilities that trigger on a 6 actually trigger on a 6+, and you turn the Juggerlord into an absolute wrecking ball. Juggerlord + Gorecleaver can be really nasty.

I ran him that way this past weekend, and with the help of attack buffs from the Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers, the Juggerlord wiped out a unit of 4 Retributors (one had died earlier) with Staunch Defender in one go. Given the circumstances, it pretty much won me the game.

[Son Of Khârn]

Hey hey,

So I'm thinking of trying this out on my next friendly 2k points matched play against a pure High Elf army.

 

General:

Aspiring Deathbringer (Goreaxe & Skullhammer)

Trait: Slaughterborn - Artefact: Mark of the Destroyer

Leaders:

Bloodstoker

Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood

Bloodstoker

Slaughterpriest

Slaughterpriest

Bloodsecrator

 

Battleline:

20x Bloodreavers

20x Booodreavers

10x Bloodreavers

 

Others:

5x Skullreapers

5x Skullreapers

4x Khorgoraths

5x Wrathmongers

 

Warscroll Battalion:  Skulltaker

 

So plan for the Deathbringer is to stick him close to the Khorgoraths for his Bane of Cowards and the Khorgie's Horrific Predator ability, that along with Mark of the Destroyer seems like a pretty fun concept. 

As usual, Wrathmongers for the +1 attack and anti-large prowess.

20+ Reavers for grabbing objectives if ever.

A whole unit of 4 Khorgies might actually be overkill so I might do 2 units of 2's and stick em on Skullreapers each.

 

Thoughts?

 

[Killax]

Yeah 2x2 seems better because it is allowed in the Battalion aswell. It seems cool to me, quite the elite force and such. I am a bit uncertain about these Skullreaper heavy lists though, they still soak up a lot of points and frankly speaking the Bloodreavers in this way arn't that scary. It leads to Skullreapers being the main engine and while that's possible between them they don't have that many wounds...

Give it a go and let us know how it went, I'm interested in the results!

[Keldaur]

Skulltaker in my experience gets much better when you max out and have a lord of khorne on juggernaut. That way not only the skullreapers will be doing the heavy lifting, but even regular bloodreavers supported by a bloodsecrator can do a lot of work.

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Bloodstoker (80) (Batallion bloodstoker)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General
- Trait: Slaughterborn 
- Artefact: Gorecleaver 

Battleline
40 x Bloodreavers (240) (B)
- Meatripper Axes

20 x Bloodreavers (140) (B)
- Meatripper Axes

20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180) (B)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (180) (B)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (180) (B)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
2 x Khorgoraths (160) (B)
2 x Khorgoraths (160) (B)

Battalions
Skulltake (200)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

 

Edited  to highlight whom is taking advatadge of the batallion rules.

[Son Of Khârn]

4 hours ago, Keldaur said:

Skulltaker in my experience gets much better when you max out and have a lord of khorne on juggernaut. That way not only the skullreapers will be doing the heavy lifting, but even regular bloodreavers supported by a bloodsecrator can do a lot of work.

Allegiance: Khorne

Leaders
Bloodstoker (80) (Batallion bloodstoker)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Bloodstoker (80)
Bloodsecrator (120)
Lord Of Khorne On Juggernaut (140)
- General
- Trait: Slaughterborn 
- Artefact: Gorecleaver 

Battleline
40 x Bloodreavers (240) (B)
- Meatripper Axes

20 x Bloodreavers (140) (B)
- Meatripper Axes

20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Meatripper Axes

Units
5 x Skullreapers (180) (B)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (180) (B)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
5 x Skullreapers (180) (B)
- Daemonblades
- 1x Soultearers
2 x Khorgoraths (160) (B)
2 x Khorgoraths (160) (B)

Battalions
Skulltake (200)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

 

Edited  to highlight whom is taking advatadge of the batallion rules.

I was actually planning to run 3 units of Skullreapers in place of the Wrathmongers, but, sadly I only have 2 at the moment.

I don't know how I feel about the Lord of Khorne on Juggernaut tho. The +1 to wound works only upon completing a charge whereas the Aspiring Deathbringer adds +1 to attacks on 6" around it- so including the Bloodsecrator that's 2 extra attacks for mortal Khorne units.

What I'm really eager to see tho is how the A.Deathbringer would perform.

I could also drop one of the Stokers for 10 more Reavers but that +3" to run and charge is just too good.

[Keldaur]

With 2 bloodstokers that shouldn't be that much of an issue, and since you have the skulltake battallion it means that your 5-6s are getting +1 damage. This makes anything with a big volume of attack really scary specially with rend since they can get dish out a lot of pain. Way more than they would do with no battallion + aspiring deathbringer. For example.

40 bloodreavers

Aspiring no battallion, full bloodsecrator  120 ---- >  60 ---- > 30 wounds -1 rend

Juggerlord, battallion, full bloodsecrator    90 ---- > 45 ---- > 15 wounds 1damage, 15 wounds 2damage ---- > 45 total wounds.

With bloodstoker buff:

Aspiring no battallion, full bloodsecrator 120 --- > 60 ---- > 35 wounds -1 rend

Juggerlord, battallion, full bloodsecrator   90 ---- > 45 ---- > 17,5 wounds 1 damage, 17,5 wounds 2damage ---- > 52,5 wounds

It does a 50% more wounds.

Khorgoraths with their 8 attacks also benefit a lot more from the +1 to wound than +1 attack.

Aspiring no battallion, full bloodsecrator  10 ---- >   6,66 ---- > 4,44 wounds  D2 -1rend ----  8,88 wounds

Juggerlord, battallion, full bloodsecrator  9 ---- > 6  ---- > 3 wounds D2,  2 wounds D3 ---- > 12 wounds

Now we could argue that battallion + aspiring might be better, because of how situational charging might be sometimes (it's a matter of being better at grinding combat, or being better at dismantling the opponent with very powerful charges, with the battallion worked the way it is i had been more successful with going all in and then the skullreapers cleaning house afterwards).

Yes it is situational, but you got 2 bloodstokers and afterwards you have the skullreapers to deal with the enemy remants and perform countercharges (therefore you continue to get the buff). Otherwise you are, in my opinion wasting a huge part of the potential of the battallion which is not cheap at all, and i think you would be much better suited with gore pilgrims in your setup than skulltake. About the models, that's completely understandable (miniatures are not cheap at all!).

The biggest problem the battallion has tho, is people who can snipe your bloodstoker obviously, and why i don't think it is a very competitive choice, but against full head on armies it is pretty hard to deal with, because you have very powerful screens (if not the most powerful in the game), you got reach from bloodstokers and everything hits like a truck.

[ledha]

Ok, guys, i think the biggest problem i have with Khorne mortal is the impossibility to shoot off those pesky heroes who can make some ennemy units too sturdy for us to kill (like liberators with 2+ rerollable or vukites berserker with 4+ reroll and 4+ invu)

So, i was thinking about adding some firepower. My first option was skullcanon, but they look very random, and seems like to be able to do nothing one game and rekt everything the other. However, they are quite resilient, mobile, and are big base, so able to act as a blockroad if needed, and have a very good range.

I thought about the jezzails too. They are basically cheaper vanguard raptors. Hit on a 4+ instead of 2+, but chaos is quite good as giving to hit bonuses, so they are actually better at putting mortal wounds. They are sadly less resilient, but the difference between wet paper and paper is not that huge.

Another option, the hellcanon. No line of sight is pretty bunker, and it fit quite nicely with a khorne army.

What are other nice/not to expensive and good option to kill ennemy heroes at range ?

 

Keldaur :  Yes, it's the "problem" of the Skulltake. It make us absolutely insane in melee, which is already khorne specialty, but does nothing to cover up the weaknesses

[Praecautus]

All ready for tomorrow's battle - 1530 points of khorne

 

[Killax]

2 hours ago, ledha said:

 

What are other nice/not to expensive and good option to kill ennemy heroes?

Slaughterpriests and Flying models can get the job done, consider Bloodthirsters, consider Daemon Princes. You could add random shooting but there are some Khorne options.

[ledha]

12 hours ago, Killax said:

Slaughterpriests and Flying models can get the job done, consider Bloodthirsters, consider Daemon Princes. You could add random shooting but there are some Khorne options.

in my local meta with lot of shooting and good players, slaughterpriest are just shot off the board and never in range of the opponent to threaten him, so i didn't count them. The others are melee option, and will suffer the same problem of my army : being sniped before going in melee (and players in my area are good at board covering and prevent any flying big base to go past their screen units ) I'm really searching long range shooting option here.

[Patapoef]

 

6 hours ago, ledha said:

in my local meta with lot of shooting and good players, slaughterpriest are just shot off the board and never in range of the opponent to threaten him, so i didn't count them. The others are melee option, and will suffer the same problem of my army : being sniped before going in melee (and players in my area are good at board covering and prevent any flying big base to go past their screen units ) I'm really searching long range shooting option here.

You could use sayl. He isnt that much a long ranged unit but he does get the units far. 

You gove a unit 18" move and fly. Combined with some charge buffs you should get a charge of turn 1. Combine this with wrath of khorne bt and a bloodstoker and basicly any unit you pick can be dumped right in their ranged dudes. Buffing the unit with slaughterpriests and they regret choosing ranged for sure. 

 

Not a fan though. Because mages and Khorne....

[Duck1986]

Hi guys, I'm looking at getting into Chaos and see Khorne as a good starting point!  I'm a freeguild player but have "competed"  my army so much as one can. I'm therefore thinking of something other than Order!

How is it working out for Khorne players currently - are they as stronger faction as they appear?

I was thinking of kickstarting my army with the Thunder and Blood box (to also bulk out my small Stormcast force ) and the Bloodbound start collecting box. 

I believe this would give me :

1 Bloodstoker

1 Slaughterpriest with Hackbridge

15 Blood Warriors

20 bloodreavers

3 mighty skullcrushers

1 Khorgarath 

Coming in at 840 points but throw in a battalion and we"re around 1000. Does this sound like a good starting collection?  £100 is probably the most I can dedicate to getting started. Which those equate to - is there anything else I should be investing in instead?  

Looking forward to it!