Wishlist: Death battletomes

[Garboq]

Hello guys and gals.

@Mengel Miniatures got me thinking about what would I like to see in the new Battletomes, and I'd love to hear your thougths as well.

I'd honestly love to get an *actual* soulblight army. With that, I mean to make it more than knights, coven throne and vampire lord on whatever flavour. I want to see neophytes, reckless young vampires trying to prove themselves, wearing less armour and dishing more attacks -but with less damage output- than a Vampire Lord. I'd also love to see cultists, or a mechanic where the vampires use up a model to heal or power up. Say, I've got 20 cultists and I may sacrifice one per turn to heal d3 wounds or increase d3 attacks, to show how revitalised the vampire is after drinking the cultist's blod.

As for Nighthaunts, I would like to see something like a conclave of banshees, where they're not as strong as the hero banshee, but have a better shooting attack, representing their wailing in a cacophony.  Maybe allow some kind of magic.

Walkers and Mages I'd merge into one faction. Can't see them on their own, really.

Deathrattle may be kept as is, just by improving the wight kings or by making a wight lord, what Krell was to most wight kings.

How about you? What would you like to see?

[PJetski]

Tomb Kings

They can even be split into a Skeleton faction and a Reanimant faction

[Squirrelmaster]

Gotta second Tomb Kings.

Failing that, expanded Deathrattle. Blocks of infantry with armour, shield-walls, actual banners with ancient heraldry. Not ravening packs of monsters or shambling mobs of zombies, but something that actually has an "ancient military" feel to it. My interest in Tomb Kings came mostly from them having archers, war machines, and chariots. Giant walking statues are also cool, and an AoS army needs some sort of big heavy-hitters, but mostly I'm drawn to the idea of ancient skeletal warriors marching in step, drawing swords or lowering spears in unison, echoing actions of a once trained, disciplined, military force.

A lot of "Wight" stuff and "Tomb King" stuff is basically the same, but under different names, and I can easily see them being merged into one. At the end of the day, a Tomb King is basically a better version of a Wight King.

The way I see it, most undead from any genre can be broken into three broad categories:

1. Bestial, ravenous, savage
2. Shambling, lurching, mindless
3. Emotionless, disciplined, relentless, robotic

I'd quite like to see the Death faction split up along similar lines. Ghouls rush at you and dish out damage, but are reckless. Zombies shuffle forward and need sheer weight of numbers to drag you down, but are resilient. Skeletons march forward in disciplined units that need to employ more traditional military-style tactics to be effective, but are more balanced overall.

Right now, I feel it's Deathrattle that are most lacking.

[TerrorPenguin]

Can't say I want to see Tomb Kings again, it just adds another faction to an alliance which already has a small number of units thinly spread. They are appealing at the moment because they're the most well rounded faction - which are ironically compendium!

I really want to see a Deathrattle battletome with Wight lords and a few named characters. I think some of the smaller factions are unlikely to see the number of model updates they need to make them viable so should just be rolled into another.

Id also like to see Deathlords go and the mortarchs be split between Deathrattle; soulblight and nighthaunt with those three being our big factions. Nagash should be able to be taken in any army without breaking allegiance .

Its either that or some batallions which allow units like e.g necromancers to be taken without breaking allegiance

[Ao_Death]

Deathrattle could use a monster or two. I could see a skeletal hydra or wurm (or just a dragon I guess...). Some heavy cav would be sick too, bone mamoths or griffins would be cool. More tricks in the hero phase are a must, either by adding a spell caster or priest. As it stands they are pretty reliant on 5 wound models. Add some tough hero's or just toss em on one of the new big units. 

I think the biggest thing deathrattle needs is a cohesive theme. Personally I would kill for a Roman legion theme. I would buy upgrade kits for my skels and GG sooo fast. (Helmets shields etc).

[Squirrelmaster]

8 minutes ago, Ao_Death said:

Deathrattle could use a monster or two. I could see a skeletal hydra or wurm (or just a dragon I guess...). Some heavy cav would be sick too, bone mamoths or griffins would be cool. More tricks in the hero phase are a must, either by adding a spell caster or priest. As it stands they are pretty reliant on 5 wound models. Add some tough hero's or just toss em on one of the new big units. 

I think the biggest thing deathrattle needs is a cohesive theme. Personally I would kill for a Roman legion theme. I would buy upgrade kits for my skels and GG sooo fast. (Helmets shields etc).

Or maybe… giant animated statues? War Sphinx, Necropolis Knights, etc?

Tomb Kings basically have everything you just asked for. Just merge them into deathrattle; It won't be "adding another faction", because you'd just be expanding the deathrattle faction. Roll in the deathlords, some of the deathmages, maybe nighthaunt if you feel like it. Call it "Ancient Legions", or something like that.

Then merge all the others that are left — soulblight, deadwalkers, some deathmages and maybe nighthaunt. There's a common theme — stuff that not only kills you, but then enslaves your body and/or soul and turns you into one of their minions. Shambling, relentless, but expendable because they replenish their ranks by raising their fallen victims, as zombies and/or ghosts. Even the vampires heal themselves using the blood of their victims.

You're left with basically three factions — the Flesh Eater Courts, the Ancient Legions, and the Soulblight (+ minions).

[ElectricPaladin]

Many. If I had a dollar for every time this thread has cropped up, I'd be able to buy another hero for my Stormcast army. I really hope GW is watching and sees how badly we want this already! Here is what I'd do if I was in charge:

1. Deathlords gets the Everchosen treatment - a slim Battletome made of Battalions that let you use other Death units while still getting some cool "these are the primo minions of Nagash" allegiance benefits.
2. Deathmages remain something you sprinkle in for an "alliance" level force, reflecting how necromancers are usually minions of greater powers. I'd enjoy seeing a "Great Necromancer" or "High Necromancer" profile that makes the Necromancer a real commander, but I don't think Deathmages need a "real" battletome. Alternately, necromancers get folded into Deathlords as Nagash's "least" agents, making the Deathlords Battletome more viable in smaller games.
3. Deadwalkers either remain an alliance-level splat of random units or get beefed up a little, possibly with some Battalions that let you field nothing but scads and scads of zombies.
4. Soulblight gets a few added units (Neophyte vampire footsoldiers? Shyish-dwelling humans?) and grows up to become a real battletome.
5. Nighthaunt gets the mortis engine folded into the faction, gets a hero that's a wizard so there's some synergy with the mortis engine and the black coach, and gets maybe one more unit, and then it's fine.
6. Deathrattle gets a "wight king on giant skeletal beast," a generic equivalent of Arkhan (skeleton wizard - call it a liche?), a new bone gargant sculpt (as well as a new warscroll so its synergies work with Deathrattle), and skeleton archers and it's done. There's more cool stuff you could do, but that's all it needs.

[Ao_Death]

20 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said:

Tomb Kings basically have everything you just asked for. Just merge them into deathrattle; It won't be "adding another faction", because you'd just be expanding the deathrattle faction. 

True, but with models that only a mother could love at the price point of a new release, I hold more hope for a reskin than a reboot. 

For the record I do wish that they would have waited before killing off the most interesting/well rounded death faction...

[TerrorPenguin]

34 minutes ago, Squirrelmaster said:

 

Tomb Kings basically have everything you just asked for. Just merge them into deathrattle; It won't be "adding another faction", because you'd just be expanding the deathrattle faction. Roll in the deathlords, some of the deathmages, maybe nighthaunt if you feel like it. Call it "Ancient Legions", or something like that.

Given that it looks like we won't see anything until late 2017; 2018 - if their big reveal for death is 'no new units but we brought tomb kings back' I'll not be impressed.

Id like something new. I'd like all those incredibly creative people at GW to look at Death and think 'how do we make this an interesting and fun to play alliance while maintaining its fluff'. Werewolves, shades, wight lords, bone constructs, thralls, liches, ogre zombies.

What happens when an aelf becomes undead? A chaos warrior? A daemon? What machines could be constructed that harvest necromatic will? What other monsters could be undead? Mawcrusha? Could we see more characters on abyssal terrors? 

There have already been loads of really good suggestions in this forum already. If the most they do is bring back tomb kings I'd be really disappointed.

[TerrorPenguin]

Admittedly if the most they are going to do is 'absolutely nothing' then yeah, I'd take the tomb kings back just for a bit of variety 

[Squirrelmaster]

Personally I love the Necrosphinx model, and I also think the skeletal archers and chariots, the actual Tomb Kings, and the Casket of Souls are all not bad. I think the Necropolis Knights would be decent, but I don't like the way the riders are posed. Even the Ushabti hold up reasonably well, though I'm not a fan of Finecast.

The Bone Giant is pretty bad. Ditto the Screaming Skull catapult, the Liche Priest, the skeletal horsemen (both varieties), the carrion, have I missed any?

But yeah, I think what I'd like to see is new models, with a note along the lines of: "We've brought out zombie demigryph models for these new undead monstrous cavalry, but TK players can use these rules for their Necropolis Knights. The undead mammoth? That could be a warsphinx if you prefer".

Or even new sculpts in plastic for existing units, not a re-release of the old finecast & metal, but an actual cool-looking plastic undead giant or giant-shaped animated statue.

Ideally I'd like something thematically compatible with my existing Tomb Kings, but I certainly agree that bringing back the old models would not qualify as a "big release".

[Vasshpit]

I'd like to see Deathlords become the new TK. Think like a merging of the two styles with a fully fleshed out range.

I'd like Deathrattle to have a COMPLETE update if they stay around.

Their models are still great but could definitely use an update with scaling and some more dynamic posing. Also, for the love of Nagash, give us some archers!

I like Nighthaunt / Malignant but they need some more options.

Mainly though I think most players would very much appreciate an update of existing models that are waaaaayyyyy on the outdated side. zombies, dire wolves, fell bats, bat swarms, blood knights, etc....

 

 

[Dan.Ford]

Tomb kings need to stay at the moment,

But to answer your question above, just replace TK with new amazing GW models withdifferent  names. In any theme you want or faction.

fast moving models

 Normal bow, great bow, warmachine 

1 or 2 units that do mortal wounds. 

Oh and most importantly the abilities to have the whole army to come up from anywhere on the table. From the death realm portal

[Azure Guardian]

I would love to see another death army since they are a little under represented atm. I would also like a few more in the Destruction camp. So far there have been people asking for the return of older factions so I am going to list some that have not been created that I would like to see.

For Death I would love to see a Werewolf faction or a "Beasts of Death" which are the creation of a mad scientist or necromancer. An army of Frankenstein's monsters with fell inhuman power crushing through lines. Or why not use personifications of Death from different cultures? Have a swarm of spectral samurai with Yokai at their head or some Jiangshi. 

For Destruction lets get elemental. Destruction has been represented as something primal and bestial so lets get up in that. I want to see a Golem army. Sentient stones rise as the Realm of Beasts awakens to cast out intruding humans from its lands. Also to get some female representation up in Destruction lets have a Water army. Water elementals, nymphs, mermaids, sirens and massive sea monsters all crushing the foolish mortals who dare lay claim to their waters.

 

[Garboq]

4 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

I'd like to see Deathlords become the new TK. Think like a merging of the two styles with a fully fleshed out range.

How would you make them play?

28 minutes ago, Azure Guardian said:

I would love to see another death army since they are a little under represented atm. I would also like a few more in the Destruction camp. So far there have been people asking for the return of older factions so I am going to list some that have not been created that I would like to see.

For Death I would love to see a Werewolf faction or a "Beasts of Death" which are the creation of a mad scientist or necromancer. An army of Frankenstein's monsters with fell inhuman power crushing through lines. Or why not use personifications of Death from different cultures? Have a swarm of spectral samurai with Yokai at their head or some Jiangshi. 

For Destruction lets get elemental. Destruction has been represented as something primal and bestial so lets get up in that. I want to see a Golem army. Sentient stones rise as the Realm of Beasts awakens to cast out intruding humans from its lands. Also to get some female representation up in Destruction lets have a Water army. Water elementals, nymphs, mermaids, sirens and massive sea monsters all crushing the foolish mortals who dare lay claim to their waters.

 

I'm not too sold on the elementals... seem to close to order for me. Too close to Sylvaneth.  Other than that, how would you make the mad  doc army work out?

[ElectricPaladin]

2 hours ago, Azure Guardian said:

For Death I would love to see a Werewolf faction or a "Beasts of Death" which are the creation of a mad scientist or necromancer.

I still think this is a terrible idea. Death is for death, not random monsters.

[Vasshpit]

4 hours ago, Garboq said:

How would you make them play?

INFANTRY

Well for a basic infantry, (albeit an elite infantry) think similar to the Necron Lych Guard kit with Deathlords look and feel. Almost a grave (tomb) guard +1.

Alternate version could be a single spirit host clad in armor with a slightly more humanoid appearance.

 

CALVARY / FAST ATTACK

1. I think a cool idea would be redone Necropolis Knights/Stalkers but I'd like to see the humanoid upper body with snake lower skelley body kept as basis of model design.

These could match well to the construct feel of the Morghast/Dread Abysalls.

2. More of a standard horse and knight design but almost like mini Dread Abysalls without flight. Think Deathlords version of Varanguard or Dracoths.

RANGED

I'd like to see a ranged unit of wizard thralls with ethereal fire in each hand similar to Tzeentch arcanites.

Again staying to a skelley Deathlords look.

A generic Mortarch kit would also be nice.

Heavy support already exists with Morghasts.

I'm kinda looking at this similar to how Sigmar has been building an army so Nagash has been slowly building his up as well comprising of the souls of the most elite Warriors and wizards that have died.

Just wishlisting.

Ideas?

 

 

[Azure Guardian]

Death means undead which basically is random monsters. Hell, Ghouls are not technically dead or undead, yet they feature prominently in Death lore with the Flesh Eater Courts getting their own battletome. As far as I am convinced the Death faction should be where random monsters are found. Raid the old Universal movies and make them the forces of Death. Werewolves are cursed beings so you could easily claim they are undead since the curse prevents them from aging or something. As for monsters look no further then Dark Eldar Grotesques and Talos but with a fantasy aesthetic. Horrible creatures neither living nor dead, raised through dark magic and sustained through evil science. Their creators all devout in their worship of the great necromancer, all of them hoping to aid his armies whilst making an impression on their dark god.  

As for the elements looking too close to Sylvaneth, personally I don't see a problem. Alarielle is the goddess of life but so far that has only extended to plant life. The Beastclaw Raiders of Destruction have control over ice and have yhetees so its not like they haven't had any elemental powers or monsters before. The biggest problem with Destruction so far is that it is the least diverse of all the GAs, as so far its just's Orrucs and Ogors. They could use a little more variety which the monsters would bring. That's my 2 cents anyway

   

[Garboq]

13 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

INFANTRY

...

 

CALVARY / FAST ATTACK

1. I think a cool idea would be redone Necropolis Knights/Stalkers but I'd like to see the humanoid upper body with snake lower skelley body kept as basis of model design.

(...)

RANGED

I'd like to see a ranged unit of wizard thralls with ethereal fire in each hand similar to Tzeentch arcanites.

(...)

 

You know, I'd actually like to see smaller morghasts, as some sort of flying infantry far less powerful. I'm not fond at all on shooting for death, much less magic shooting. I mean, that's what amde the TK unique in a way; but I can't see death going all tzeench... I believe that death should be more "Slow, attrittion", with ways to heal up wounds and debuff the enemies rather than face them on their terms. Wouldn't mind the stalkers at all.

4 hours ago, Azure Guardian said:

Death means undead which basically is random monsters. Hell, Ghouls are not technically dead or undead, yet they feature prominently in Death lore with the Flesh Eater Courts getting their own battletome. As far as I am convinced the Death faction should be where random monsters are found. Raid the old Universal movies and make them the forces of Death. Werewolves are cursed beings so you could easily claim they are undead since the curse prevents them from aging or something. As for monsters look no further then Dark Eldar Grotesques and Talos but with a fantasy aesthetic. Horrible creatures neither living nor dead, raised through dark magic and sustained through evil science. Their creators all devout in their worship of the great necromancer, all of them hoping to aid his armies whilst making an impression on their dark god.  

As for the elements looking too close to Sylvaneth, personally I don't see a problem. Alarielle is the goddess of life but so far that has only extended to plant life. The Beastclaw Raiders of Destruction have control over ice and have yhetees so its not like they haven't had any elemental powers or monsters before. The biggest problem with Destruction so far is that it is the least diverse of all the GAs, as so far its just's Orrucs and Ogors. They could use a little more variety which the monsters would bring. That's my 2 cents anyway

   

I guess an argument could be made about how werewolves could be set for destruction instead -skinwalkers and all that-, or not made at all considering the beastmen range. However, I would like to see the abominations, Warcraft style, merged into the Deadwalkers. Hell, I'd love it. A slow, hard hitting and resistant ogre-sized infantry made of different bodies, with cleavers, hooks... Would be lovely.

I'd not thought of the Beastclaw, really.  I'd put Earth or fire elementls rather than water but that's just a matter of taste.

[ElectricPaladin]

7 hours ago, Azure Guardian said:

Death means undead which basically is random monsters. Hell, Ghouls are not technically dead or undead, yet they feature prominently in Death lore with the Flesh Eater Courts getting their own battletome.

Flesh Eaters are cannibals, specifically infested with Death energies. Vampires (ghoul kings) and undead monsters (zombie dragons and terorgheists) also feature prominently in the battletome...

[Azure Guardian]

7 hours ago, Garboq said:

You know, I'd actually like to see smaller morghasts, as some sort of flying infantry far less powerful. I'm not fond at all on shooting for death, much less magic shooting. I mean, that's what amde the TK unique in a way; but I can't see death going all tzeench... I believe that death should be more "Slow, attrittion", with ways to heal up wounds and debuff the enemies rather than face them on their terms. Wouldn't mind the stalkers at all.

I guess an argument could be made about how werewolves could be set for destruction instead -skinwalkers and all that-, or not made at all considering the beastmen range. However, I would like to see the abominations, Warcraft style, merged into the Deadwalkers. Hell, I'd love it. A slow, hard hitting and resistant ogre-sized infantry made of different bodies, with cleavers, hooks... Would be lovely.

I'd not thought of the Beastclaw, really.  I'd put Earth or fire elementls rather than water but that's just a matter of taste.

Werewolves in Destruction would be cool, I would just like to see the GAs flushed out with different types of armies. Earth elementals were what I was thinking of when I pitched the Golem army.  

4 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:

Flesh Eaters are cannibals, specifically infested with Death energies. Vampires (ghoul kings) and undead monsters (zombie dragons and terorgheists) also feature prominently in the battletome...

I mean if Ghouls are just cannibals with Death energies that solves the problem. Werewolves are magical wolf human hybrids infested with death energies. Hell if Death energies can make anything part of the Death alliance then fluff wise they can have whatever they want. I like the fluff of Warhammer but its ultimately dressing when the game is the core. If you want to argue that lizard-human-hybrid people are beings of pure Order that are made up of starlight that's fine with me. Its that level of silliness that brought me to this game in the first place, I love how camp and over the top it is and it is due to that you can fluff it to have what ever you want. Looks wise I would make the argument that from a thematic standpoint the Seraphon and the Skaven have more in common with Destruction then Order or Chaos due to them being far more bestial. Yet their lore places them on different GAs, and that is a good thing. The less each Alliance is forced to conform to one strict aesthetic the better, it makes for more diverse and interesting armies on the table and in the fluff.

Well this is what happens when I have drank too much after the family has gone home, online Warhammer rants. Merry Christmas everyone, Happy Holidays and to all a good night.  

[ElectricPaladin]

3 hours ago, Azure Guardian said:

Hell if Death energies can make anything part of the Death alliance then fluff wise they can have whatever they want. I like the fluff of Warhammer but its ultimately dressing when the game is the core. If you want to argue that lizard-human-hybrid people are beings of pure Order that are made up of starlight that's fine with me.

Well. I can't argue with that. I suppose I just don't see the appeal of Werewolves, or where they fit into the larger world.

[Rogue Explorator]

Can't say I would like a return of Tomb Kings as they where, even though they where very high on my list of armies would have collected, had I played WHFB.

What I would like, is the various compound parts of the old Tomb King army, many of which are iconic old stables of Warhammer, reimagined and redesigned for AoS.

That would mean:

-Redesigned Skeleton Marksmen, Bone Chariots, Screaming Skull Catapults and Bone Giants for Deathrattle. All of these have been Death/Undead units long before they where subsumed into Tomb Kings, it would be a pity to see them Gone for good. Along with some heroes, this would also turn Deathrattle into a veritable faction that can stand on its own feet.

-Classic Carrions, once again ridden by malignant Spirits for Nighthaunts

-My personal pet wish, golems/constructs of Death, the various animated statues from Tomb Kings, from Ushabti to Sphinxes, redesigned to the AoS Death aesthetic and expanded to a full faction

-That leaves only Mummies and Lichs unaccounted for, which could be saved for later or something. I admit, I do not care as much about these as the other, I guess Mummies could be turned into an elite faction simmilarly to Soulblight.

 

Other than that, there are two points on my Death Wishlist:

-Where/when there are Battletomes, I'd like to see two teirs. A great number of Death factions work very well as self contained and sufficient armies build on their own Battletome and Allegiance. However, it is hard to see Soulblight, Deathmages or Mummies without "lesser Undead to serve them. So if such factions where to get released, it would be nice if they could retain allegiance and yet include minions, like basic skeletons, zombies, spirithosts and ghouls, but not the more elite and advanced units of such factions.

-Nighthaunt getting the Sylvaneth treatment, i.e. battletome and new miniatures. Simply because they are the current Death faction I am most interested in.

[Acid_Nine]

I want to see some dismounted Vampire blood knights. Expensive as hell point wise, but tougher on average than a chaos warrior and able to bring guys back would be cool. Maybe 3 wounds each and bump the mounted blood knights up to 4 wounds? they would be powerful like the stormcasts but still able to have quite a few of them. Maybe have some slave archers or militia as bloodbags for them. A new mount for a blood dragon vampire lord would be cool, or maybe a re-buffing of the zombie dragon.

I would also settle for them getting creative with death monsters. Make them twisted horrors of bones and armor mashed and held together by fell magic, turning normal skeletons into horrors unimaginable. Basically the bosses from dark-souls turned into minatures.