Let's chat Disciples of Tzeentch

[Mirage8112]

Back to the purpose of the thread. Building lists and discussing stratagems for matched play:

I think the Multitudinous host could make a fantastic gunline counter: 

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
Herald of Tzeentch (120)

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)

Units
20 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
20 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)

Battalions
Multitudinous Host (30)


Whats funny here is that the list doesn't look extremely fit for matched play. But with proper positioning, I actually think it could be fairly competitive. (if you don't mind spending an eternity painting horrors.)

The basic idea is this; This is a list that is almost entirely chaff. Your opponent has to completely commit to wiping out a unit down to man, and it will take roughly 60 shots (4's x 4's with no rend) to totally wipe a 10 man unit of pinks out and 100 shots to wipe a 20 man unit of blues out (slightly less to wipe a unit of brims out, since they have no save).

Each unit regenerates models (D6 in the case of pink and blue horrors and D3 in the case of the brimstone horrors) and any unit that take causalities will effectively "top up" units down the line Pink>Blue>Brim since the "split" and "split again" rules state you can add models to units already on the table without having to pay reenforcement points. Battleshock rolls of 1 for pink horrors will also add D6 models to the unit further perpetuating the cascade effect. Since this has 8 units of horrors it would take an obscene amount of shots, roughly 500 (at 4's x 4's), to bring down the horror component in a single phase. 

The question is where to go from here. The list as it stands is 1200 points. The hope would be to fit everything into meta-battalion to guarantee second turn (and hopefully a double). But the eternal conflagration is doesn't fit points-wise and neither does the hosts duplicitous. A two battalion drop is nearly as good as single, so the slaves to darkness and arcanite battalions are on the table as well. 

if this is basis, what would you add and how would you use it? 





 

[blueguy203]

Good question there Mirage8112, im curious to see what builds people can come up with to make that battalion more competitive. I think what we can do to progress this thread is talk about each battalion what it consists of, its pros and cons and suggestions to make the list competitive at 2k (or as close as you can get competitively) 

[Tokyo Nift]

You missed the point. Matched play clearly allows you to NOT deploy any units you wish not to, the Changeling's warscroll clearly allows you to set him up at the start of the battle, the start of the battle is clearly defined as the start of the first battle round - or if you don't agree with this - it is at least after setup is complete as this is labelled "pre-battle abilities".

Arguing that the "start of the battle" could be before deployment is finished would suggest insane things like Kairos being able to affect the roll for the Battleplan. 

 

Kairos has a "once per battle" ability - thus the Changeling is deployed at the moment you believe you can start using Kairos' ability. 

 

EDIT: did not see the thread had moved on before this was posted D:

 

[Tokyo Nift]

The issue with the multidinous host is horrors don't do anything really.

All the horrors you posted there have 100 shots, 50 hits, 25 wounds, ~12 unsaved vs a 4+ save. 

12 wounds for 1200 points is not particularly efficient. 

Also, I just came from a game vs 12 Kurnoth Hunters and a Hurricanum.

24 shots, 3s and 3s -1 rend

18 hits, 12 wounds, 2 saves,

2 damage each, 20 damage from the hunters so that's two units of pinks wiped out on turn 1 (his is a one drop army Gnarlroot formation).

That damage goes up against blues and brimstones. 

 

That said, if I were going to make a multidunious hosts list, I'd probably run it with Archaon, and use Psychoconductive Bond on the regenerating horrors.

[Malfallax]

Hello guys I have a mini tourney 1000pts in my LGS and i came up with this for my daemon list....

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Phantasmal Weapons 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Daemon Prince Of Tzeentch (160)
- Axe
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Mount: Steed
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

Total: 1000/1000
 

[Nevvermore]

Can you guys please take the Changeling discussion to another thread? It's getting pretty annoying checking this thread out for some sweet DoT discussion and seeing nothing but walls of text about the rules for a single model.

[Tokyo Nift]

4 hours ago, Malfallax said:

Hello guys I have a mini tourney 1000pts in my LGS and i came up with this for my daemon list....

 

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Phantasmal Weapons 
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Daemon Prince Of Tzeentch (160)
- Axe
- Lore of Change: Unchecked Mutation
The Blue Scribes (120)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Mount: Steed
- Runestaff
- Mark of Chaos: Tzeentch
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Arcane Transformation
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality

Total: 1000/1000
 

Cool list. I'd say though you should consider dropping the blue scribes. The reroll to cast is nice but doesn't really feel necessary with how good our wizards are? I'd also suggest maybe taking your artefact off of the LoC and giving it to the daemon prince? He's more likely to want to be in combat, though at 1,000 points you can definitely also fight with your LoC. 

Otherwise good luck and nice list

[Nico]

On another note, who out there has been experimenting with the single drop Battalions. I'm currently looking at a possible small Pyrofane Cult coupled to a big (like 700+ points) summoning pool.

My concern with a big summoning pool is that if you don't have the choice of turn one, you might be wiped out before you can even summon anything on. Obviously against another single drop army, you're potentially looking at a 50-50 of choosing first turn, but that's better than nothing.

On the basis that Tzaangor Shamen and Englighted/Skyfires appear to be the main bargain for DoT (a bit like Kurnoth Hunters are the only undercosted unit for Sylvaneth - unless you take Compendium Treekin). I'm convinced that Skyfires are a sucker's bet (because Stormcast seem to have sufficient hard counters to pew pew and as Kurnoth Hunters outrange them (for pew pew the actual range sometimes matters, since if Skyfires come into their range - they are susceptible to (say) Judicator fire in return or long bomb charges - unlike 30" Kurnoth Hunters). This pointed me in the direction of the Witchfyre Coven over the Alter-Kin Coven. 

[Nico]

Quote

Cool list. I'd say though you should consider dropping the blue scribes. The reroll to cast is nice but doesn't really feel necessary with how good our wizards are?

Feedback from @Leonardas from practice games for London's #Calling and SCGT at the South London Legion has been that the Blue Scribes are worthwhile. Rob has been using the Changehost a lot is that it's far easier to fail critical cast rolls than you might imagine (particularly summoning the Balewind Vortex on a deceptively hard 7). 

[Tokyo Nift]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

Feedback from @Leonardas from practice games for London's #Calling and SCGT at the South London Legion has been that the Blue Scribes are worthwhile. Rob has been using the Changehost a lot is that it's far easier to fail critical cast rolls than you might imagine (particularly summoning the Balewind Vortex on a deceptively hard 7). 

Of course, I love the blue scribes and I run them in my Changehost. I just think in that particular list he posted they might not be worth it. In the Changehost they fill up a slot that would otherwise be horrors, in a non-formation list you don't have this restriction. Just food for thought, already said it was a good list with or without them! 

[Nico]

Quote

Also, I just came from a game vs 12 Kurnoth Hunters and a Hurricanum.

That Hurricanum is (rightly) stone cold dead turn one turn one vs DoT. You would only need either 120 Summoning Points and two Destiny Dice of 6 and 5 (summon Herald into range - Pink Fire of Tzeentch, then Bolt of Tzeentch - you would use Destiny Dice to guarantee the second cast roll of 9). Then the Kurnoths are back to hitting on 4+.

Quote

The question is where to go from here. The list as it stands is 1200 points. The hope would be to fit everything into meta-battalion to guarantee second turn (and hopefully a double). But the eternal conflagration is doesn't fit points-wise and neither does the hosts duplicitous. A two battalion drop is nearly as good as single, so the slaves to darkness and arcanite battalions are on the table as well.

I'm right in thinking that the LoC is outside of the battalion?

It's a better looking prospect than many of the Daemon Battalion. Smart opponents will shoot the pinks before any of the Blues die and then repeat the process with the Blues, but you'll do very well against melee armies.

I'm skeptical about the Battalions that require 6 Exalted Flamers (the model count becomes dismal). Changehost/Hosts Duplicitous look like the obvious choice (which I tend to avoid like the plague out of contrarian habit).

[Mirage8112]

15 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

The issue with the multidinous host is horrors don't do anything really.

Including die. I's not the damage output thats attractive here, it's the durability of the horror units. 

 

15 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

All the horrors you posted there have 100 shots, 50 hits, 25 wounds, ~12 unsaved vs a 4+ save. 

12 wounds for 1200 points is not particularly efficient. 

Also, I just came from a game vs 12 Kurnoth Hunters and a Hurricanum.

24 shots, 3s and 3s -1 rend

18 hits, 12 wounds, 2 saves,

2 damage each, 20 damage from the hunters so that's two units of pinks wiped out on turn 1 (his is a one drop army Gnarlroot formation).

That damage goes up against blues and brimstones. 

 

I know the hunters well (I'm a Sylvaneth player myself), but you're math looks a little off. 24 shots hitting on 3's and wounding on 3's is 16 hits (24 x 67% = 16), 11 wounds, (16 x 67% = 10.78 rounding up) and 2 saves (11 x 17% = 1.87 rounding up). That's 18 damage, which means at least 2 horrors from either group is likely to survive. Then (if the sylvaneth player took the first turn), that unit will regenerate D6 horrors and possibly 2D6 if you get the double turn, you could even go 3D6 if you used a 1 for their battleshock tests.. So he can definitely take at least one group of horrors off the board if he dedicates enough shots to it. 

 

50 minutes ago, Nico said:

It's a better looking prospect than many of the Daemon Battalion. Smart opponents will shoot the pinks before any of the Blues die and then repeat the process with the Blues, but you'll do very well against melee armies.

But positioning here is pretty key, and why games are won or lost in deployment. It will be pretty obvious where those hunters will come in (if there is a wyldwood and they're off the table, it will obviously be in the wood). So if your smart with your deployment and leave only 1 unit of pinks in range, he'll be forced to put some shots into either the blues or the brimstone horrors. He is required to decide how many shots to put into each unit before he fires (he can't shoot 10 and then decide he wants to put a few more), and if he splits his shots evenly, say 12 and 12, its pretty possible the pinks survive, (12 shots, 8 hits, 5 wounds, 1 save. 4 wounds x 2 = 8 damage), and the blues will def survive (10 damage). The 8 dead pinks replace all the lost blues, and the pinks regenerate as described above. 

But let's say just for the sake of argument he plays it safe and is able to wipe out 1 unit of pinks. I might point out that in this case he'll have used 1040 points worth of Sylvaneth shooting and order support to wipe out 140 pts worth of horrors. Which is pretty much exactly what you want to have happen.  
You've basically absorbed a massive amount of shooting and taken minimal losses. Horrors damage output isn't really why you take them; you take them for their resiliency. 

Gunlines are brutal against elite armies, but this battalion creates this weird MSU/horde hybrid. it's weird because it has the properties of an MSU list, with small/compartmentalized units, meaning armies with blocks of shooting must declare how to to split their shots if they want to wipe out more than 1 unit. The advantage here is it forces your opponent put more shots than he probably needs into his targets and if he miscalculates or rolls short the unit comes to nearly full strength back each turn. 

Yet at the same time, because its best to run the horror within 6" of each other so casualties from each unit top up the others, its plays like a horde list. A relatively large amount of bodies (50 if you run 1 unit of pinks, 1 of blues and 1 of brims). If you're careful with your positioning in CC you can ensure that wounds are distributed between the 3 units (for example, making sure the opponents units can't focus all their attacks on a single unit) means no single unit will take enough damage to disappear before it can regenerate. 

16 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

That said, if I were going to make a multidunious hosts list, I'd probably run it with Archaon, and use Psychoconductive Bond on the regenerating horrors.

Not so sure about this. The current list is also already 1200 points and includes a LoC for spell support. I'm not sure that adding another large target is the best way to go.

Ideally I would think everything else in the army should be choppy, but not so integral that it would hurt if it was lost. Ranged support would be helpful, as would more characters. Screamers perhaps for monster hunting. Aethereater host would be fantastic for spell support and magic defense, but I'm not sure it has the damage output. I'm also not set on the unit numbers for the multitudinous host. 

 

 

[Denneysman]

No one seems to be mentioning that the pink horrors are Wizards and with the tzeentch Spells they can put out a lot of mortal wounds.

[Mirage8112]

No one seems to be mentioning that the pink horrors are Wizards and with the tzeentch Spells they can put out a lot of mortal wounds.

  

That's something I hadn't considered. Only heros can take artifacts, but apparently wizards don't share that restriction in regard to spells. Pink horrors near a LoC with the wellspring of arcane might artifact stand a good chance of casting the lower tier spells (casting value of 6 or less) and a slightly better than average chance of casting mid tier (casting value of 7)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[Denneysman]

Even better they get +1 to casting when near a daemon hero.

[Mirage8112]

Even better they get +1 to casting when near a daemon hero.

So 2's become 3's and 1's get rerolled. That means the lowest value you could get is a 5 (unless you get a 1 on your reroll). Those are pretty good odds for casting.


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[Nico]

Quote

Gunlines are brutal against elite armies, but this battalion creates this weird MSU/horde hybrid. it's weird because it has the properties of an MSU list, with small/compartmentalized units, meaning armies with blocks of shooting must declare how to to split their shots if they want to wipe out more than 1 unit. The advantage here is it forces your opponent put more shots than he probably needs into his targets and if he miscalculates or rolls short the unit comes to nearly full strength back each turn. 

I made this exact mistake against @Leonardas and his 3 units of Pink Horrors. Simplifying what actually happened, I fired 4 Exalted Flamers at them (2 shots from each Flamer at each unit) as each time you cause a wound (from each model!) you will cause D3 mortal wounds to the unit at the end of the shooting phase on a 4+. I also took the Damned buff for +1 to hit on each model. Needless to say, Rob rolled 5+ saves like the Nurgle player he truly is and all 3 units clung on with 1-2 models left. He then unleashed the 1s Destiny Dice to bring back a bunch of models. Pretty sure that on average all 3 units would pop or at least 2 of them, but it was embarrassing. I've seen (Rob's) 3 regular Flamers kill a unit of 10 Chaos Warriors (20 wounds worth) before in one round of pew pew (that was exceptionally lucky).     

[Nico]

Quote

Aethereater host would be fantastic for spell support and magic defense, but I'm not sure it has the damage output.

I've looked at this and it's just awful. Initially I thought you could put Chariots in it and thus create a relatively small single drop army if you took the Herald as general) which could then summon a bunch of stuff. However, that promptly went out of the window when I reread it. At best, it's a cheap artefact. Healing off unbinding is a pretty dismal special rule (on a LoC it would be great, but not on a hero that's going to die as soon as it takes any serious pressure).

I might see if I can make a decent single drop army with the Multitudinous Host instead.

Screamers feel like they should be capable of playing the tank role for Daemons with the sixes become ones rule (as a big unit of 9-12 with Mystic Shield, Shield of Fate and Fold Reality to bring them back; but they just do not work at the cost, especially compared to Enlightened. 

[Tokyo Nift]

Maths definitely wrong on the hunters D: 

 

i think the list is definitely good for clogging up the board, and it is hard to kill, it just doesn't do anything so you have to think about how it wins. You're not going to be able to get anyone off objectives, and on the battleplans where heroes hold them you're going to have them removed by any shooting the enemy has because they're the only target.

Vs a melee army you're just going to lose the slow battle I feel. You average 1 or 2 rolls of 1 in your destiny dice. You only regenerate 3.5 horrors per turn on average, a lot of armies are going to do much more than 3.5 wounds to a block with a 5+ save.

Sorta playing devils advocate a little, I love horrors and my army is made almost entirely of them, they just are very weak. I think multidunous host is more fun than it is good. Not that is always a bad thing

[Malfallax]

7 hours ago, Tokyo Nift said:

Of course, I love the blue scribes and I run them in my Changehost. I just think in that particular list he posted they might not be worth it. In the Changehost they fill up a slot that would otherwise be horrors, in a non-formation list you don't have this restriction. Just food for thought, already said it was a good list with or without them! 

I picked the blue Scribes for their ability to learn all of my other spells and work as a Swiss army knife in case i lose something. Also they fire bolt of Tzeench on a 2+

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I fired 4 Exalted Flamers at them (2 shots from each Flamer at each unit) as each time you cause a wound (from each model!) you will cause D3 mortal wounds to the unit at the end of the shooting phase on a 4+. I also took the Damned buff for +1 to hit on each model. Needless to say, Rob rolled 5+ saves like the Nurgle player he truly is and all 3 units clung on with 1-2 models left. He then unleashed the 1s Destiny Dice to bring back a bunch of models. Pretty sure that on average all 3 units would pop or at least 2 of them, but it was embarrassing. I've seen (Rob's) 3 regular Flamers kill a unit of 10 Chaos Warriors (20 wounds worth) before in one round of pew pew (that was exceptionally lucky).     

Math says 24 flamer shots will do about 23/24 wounds a shooting phase. (14.5 from shooting counting +1 to hit, and 9 from the Capricious warpflame ability.) Spread out over 3 units, I could see each unit having a model or two left. Really, one model is all you need if you have 1's in your destiny pool. Plus, if you're taking the battlion imagine the effect of have 3D6 returned to play in the span of two consecutive phases (D6 for battleshock at the end of your opponent phase, and then D6 for the battalion ability and D6 from fold reality in your hero phase).  

@Nico I originally started looking at this battalion as a result of the discussion of the list in the Kunnin' Rukk thread you tagged me on. The idea was to create something that can absorb a significant amount of shooting long enough to close the gap and deal with the army without losing anything irreplaceable. Right now, I'm sort of leaning toward something like this:

Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Staff of Change
-Wellspring of Arcane Might
The Changeling (140)
20 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (280)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
20 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
10 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (50)
20 x Blue Horrors Of Tzeentch (100)
20 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (80)
20 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (80)
Multitudinous Host (30)

Total: 1120/2000

Single drop. The idea being let the Rukk player take the first turn, basically wasting his hero phase shooting. Depending on deployment, you might be able to even put them far enough away to forgo the shooting in the shooting phase as well. 26" should do just fine. The changeling can just sit out in midfield and net objective points. 

Then, in your first hero phase, you pop the herald's ability to roll 3 dice for 1 casting attempt and summon a Lord of Change within 18". Wellspring + 3 dice almost guarantee's a summoning roll of 10. If you want a Guaranteed 10, using a destiny dice of 3 or 4 should be plenty. Since the Herald can cast a second spell if the first was over 9, he can either shield the LoC or the unit of 20 pinks. 

Now the Loc is well within range to pop the Boss, essentially halving the arrowboyz shots. Then the LoC can either summon something choppy within 3" of their front lines or cast a second spell. Since at this point, there isn't any other units in the army, I'd be inclined to burn a 6 from the destiny pool and summon a group of 3 exalted flamers 13" from the arrowboyz. (putting them out of range of the fanatics).

In the first movement phase, the LoC can either move in to set up a charge, or be a total d#@k and move 10" back well out of range of arrow fire next turn.  Flamers do their pew-pew to the arrow boys removing 10-11 of them, dropping their shot output by another 30. You can also start moving the horrors up, putting the 20 strong pink unit at the front, flanked by a unit of 20 blues. 

Charge phase sort of depends on what you feel like and what you decided to do with the LoC.

By the time you get to the battleshock phase, you'll likely see another 5-7 of the arrowboys flee due to battleshock since he likely won't have enough foresight to use inspiring presence on them. 

If you don't get the double turn, you've managed to drop the total shot output of the arrow boys from 240 to 66. If you do get the double turn you can pretty easily delete the rest of the unit. You'll also be able to get the horrors onto objectives. You'll also have another 380 its worth of summoning you can play with. 

How's that for a stick of fried gold?

 

[Tokyo Nift]

8 minutes ago, Malfallax said:

I picked the blue Scribes for their ability to learn all of my other spells and work as a Swiss army knife in case i lose something. Also they fire bolt of Tzeench on a 2+

good choice.

[Tokyo Nift]

8 minutes ago, Malfallax said:

I picked the blue Scribes for their ability to learn all of my other spells and work as a Swiss army knife in case i lose something. Also they fire bolt of Tzeench on a 2+

good choice.

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, Tokyo Nift said:

Vs a melee army you're just going to lose the slow battle I feel. You average 1 or 2 rolls of 1 in your destiny dice. You only regenerate 3.5 horrors per turn on average, a lot of armies are going to do much more than 3.5 wounds to a block with a 5+ save.

The trick is not to let the enemy focus a single unit. 

Lets say you have a unit that puts out around 20 wounds per combat phase. Regenerating 3.5 models doesn't look especially impressive in the face of 20 wounds. But if you can arrange your units so that he can't bring all the attacks to bear in one place you can spread the damage out fairly easily. 20 wounds spread out over 4 units is 5 wounds per unit. 5 models lost and 3.5 regenerated looks much more palatable. 

Furthermore, the pinks are the engine that drives this machine. Ideally you would see to it that only 1 of the pinks are in base to base with the enemy. (pretty easy to do if you get creative with your positioning. That way the blues and brims are taking the brunt of the damage. In the case mentioned above, if your 20 wounds are spread between 4 units, 1 pink, 2 blues and 1 brim, it's pretty easy to see the pinks taking 3, and the remaining units taking 6-7 apiece. That way the dying horrors each top up the other units down the line. The 3 lost pinks turn into 6 blues which also get D3 from the battalion ability (making a total of 8 replaced blues on average) and the 7 dead blues turn into 7 brims who also get D3 (making a total of 18 brims replaced from the 2 units of blues!). Relying on "split" and "split again" is also smarter since it triggers at the end of the phase rather than just the hero phase. Since it's topping up an existing unit it also doesn't eat up reenforcement points. 

The trick is balancing your positioning so everything gets spread evenly. Even if you were to take the smallest sized units in the list above, it's 40 models that you have to play with. That's a lot of bodies to play with. More than you need. The only difficulty is single models that put out a lot of damage in one place like monsters. Everything else is pretty handleable. Basically if your smart, you can perpetuate the topping up indefinitely, and even if you don't replace all the lost models every turn, you opponent will be losing models from weight of attacks and replacing none of them.

Furthermore as @Denneysman pointed out, those pinks can also cast spells. That means they can top up units in a pinch with fold reality, or they can just pump out mortal wounds via casting (your choice of spells). They reroll 1's and get +1 to cast from the herald. since you likely woundn't need to burn destiny dice from the pool to meet the casting value, you can use destiny dice for damage output. 

[Tokyo Nift]

@Mirage. Vs Kunnin Rukk a thundertusk (if we're talking about the same list) will just kill your herald of Tzeentch? If your herald is too far away to be shot by the thundertusks it's gonna be hard to summon a LoC into boss-targeting range, especially when the boss is facing so much shooting and will likely be at the back. 

Also LoC has to be summoned in 9" away from the enemy, which there will not be much space for when the destruction moves have come out across the table. Getting him into range of the boss while also not losing your herald to thundertusks is not a given, and it's not like your opponent won't expect summoning when you only have 1100 points on the table. 

 

 

Edit: just saw your second post! Good points in it, definitely agree with good positioning you can pull off crazy regen, for sure. Not saying the list can't work, just saying it's not where I'd go for a "competitive" Tzeentch list. Just my $0.02. Shooting armies will likely target your herald, as he's the only distinguishable target.