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Nico

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The points about the Acolytes are a shame, I like the models and love the idea of the cultists over daemons, but at 140 points for 10 they seem crazy expensive, I was expecting maybe 100 points at most.  They certainly aren't worth 14 points per model.  Still, I plan on taking  some as my army is going to be based around a cult.

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Just now, wayniac said:

The points about the Acolytes are a shame, I like the models and love the idea of the cultists over daemons, but at 140 points for 10 they seem crazy expensive, I was expecting maybe 100 points at most.  They certainly aren't worth 14 points per model.  Still, I plan on taking  some as my army is going to be based around a cult.

They are likely representative of the new points valuation of ranged attacks in GHB2.  On Warhammer Weekly last night, Rob made it clear that points were being looked at across the board and were going to be rebalanced accordingly.  When I brought up Sayl for example, he said he isn't broken per se, just likely undercosted.  I suspect these points values are more in line with what we will be seeing from ranged units in GHB2.

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Just now, Thomas Lyons said:

They are likely representative of the new points valuation of ranged attacks in GHB2.  On Warhammer Weekly last night, Rob made it clear that points were being looked at across the board and were going to be rebalanced accordingly.  When I brought up Sayl for example, he said he isn't broken per se, just likely undercosted.  I suspect these points values are more in line with what we will be seeing from ranged units in GHB2.

Fair point, that does make sense.  I'm still going to use them, started (slowly) assembling my first box last night.  Gorgeous models.

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9 hours ago, Thomas Lyons said:

They are likely representative of the new points valuation of ranged attacks in GHB2.  On Warhammer Weekly last night, Rob made it clear that points were being looked at across the board and were going to be rebalanced accordingly.  When I brought up Sayl for example, he said he isn't broken per se, just likely undercosted.  I suspect these points values are more in line with what we will be seeing from ranged units in GHB2.

And the tzeentch pink horrors?? they are the same, if they are 20 they hit better, and they are wizzards...

well, do you like my 2000 points mortal/arcanites list?

Leaders
Fatemaster (140)
- General
- Trait: Boundless Mutation - Tzeentch Arcanite Hero
- Artefact: Phantasmal Weapons 
Gaunt Summoner (100)
Magister (120)
Curseling, Eye of Tzeentch (140)
- Artefact: Daemonheart 
Tzaangor Shaman (120)
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might 

Battleline
9 x Kairic Acolytes (140)
9 x Kairic Acolytes (140)
10 x Tzaangors (180)
9 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
9 x Chaos Warriors (180)
- Hand Weapon & Shield

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (160)
3 x Tzaangor Enlightened (160)
1 x Chaos Chariots (80)
- War-flails

Battalions
Tzaangor Coven (40)
Fatesworn Warband (120)

Total: 2000/2000

All the mortals win rending -1 (the acolytes shoots too) and 6+ extra save (only for units).

The Fatemaster hit with -2 rend, and heals 1d3 per turn, but i cant put him the paradogical shield too.

The curseling can crush with double dmg and rending -1 in 1 turn.

The chariot is for have one fast and tanky unit :)

The tzaangor puts to the army the fast and hitty component, and all the wizards obliterate the enemy most tanky units with his mortal wounds.

The tzaangor shaman improve the other tzaangors skills and put +1 to cast to the wizards :).

I usually drop 60 pointns for generate one spawn or summon a slaanesh daemonette on steed, but i cant do it for points on this army xD

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41 minutes ago, Iradekhorne said:

 

All the mortals win rending -1 (the acolytes shoots too) and 6+ extra save (only for units).

The Fatemaster hit with -2 rend, and heals 1d3 per turn, but i cant put him the paradogical shield too.

The curseling can crush with double dmg and rending -1 in 1 turn.

The chariot is for have one fast and tanky unit :)

The tzaangor puts to the army the fast and hitty component, and all the wizards obliterate the enemy most tanky units with his mortal wounds.

The tzaangor shaman improve the other tzaangors skills and put +1 to cast to the wizards :).

I usually drop 60 pointns for generate one spawn or summon a slaanesh daemonette on steed, but i cant do it for points on this army xD

I ran a fatesworn warband last weekend using the new book. I had about an hour to look at the book before my games so I didn't have much time to consider synergies. 

 

Anyway, I also ran Kairic Acolytes in 2 groups (mine were 10) and they just didn't do much in any of my games even though they were picking up -1 rend on their shooting and attacks. 

 

I ran two blocks of Chaos warriors (20 and 10) and I used a Chaos Lord to give the 10 block the Tzeentch buff (re-roll 1's on saves) and the Magister to give the 20 block the shield of fate. The 20 block (with hand weapons) was DEVASTATING with 7-9 Destiny dice when shield of fate was active. They did not encounter a unit all day that managed to defeat them. At one point they were fighting Archeon (on a horse) and 2 Chaos Lords and they came out on top. 

Where my list failed was speed: I couldn't grab midfield objectives before my opponent so I was often playing catch-up on VPs. 

A couple more notes: I couldn't depend much on my wizards to throw mortal wounds because I was counting on them to throw buff spells. They did deliver some clutch spells when needed though. I ran a block of 10 Tzaangors as skirmishers/harassment and they did nothing. Tzaangors need to be well supported or they just don't work. Please note that in your list there's no point running the Tzaangors at 9 other than fluff because they are not part of the fatesworn warband (they aren't mortals.) That being said your list is not legal because you do not have the requisite 9 mortal units to fill the fatesworn warband. You might have to add a spawn somewhere to get to 9. 

Fatemaster can't take Phantasmal weapons as far as I know because he's not a Daemon. 

 

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4 hours ago, Nevvermore said:

After looking at the warscrolls I really can't see what the rationale is for the points on Acolytes vs Tzaangor...

Tzaangor have double the wounds (!), better save, same Bravery, better weapons, the crazy good mortal wound ability, better abilities... and the only thing Acolytes have are their missiles, which are the same as Pink Horror ones without the benefit of the unit also being wizards. And Tzaangors are only 40 points more. Who would ever take Acolytes except for fluff reasons? I'm almost regretting painting my 20 Silver Tower ones.

 

3 hours ago, Arkiham said:

There's that battalion which grants you better to wound if more units attack the same target. And an additional ranged attack phase, but that was it 

"That was it" is no small thing.  Acolytes get the better end of the stick when it comes to battalion benefits.  

A unit of Tzaangors in front of a unit of acolytes can place more damage into a unit than 2 units of tzaangors could.

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What do we think about a Chaos Sorcerer Lord VS a Curseling? I'm leaning towards the Sorcerer Lord for all the buffs, but the Curseling does cast and unbind more spells each turn and gets that funny little bonus if he actually unbinds. Not sure there. 

I've modified my 1000 point list, what do you guys think now? 

Lord of Change (General) - Immaterial Form, Phantasmal Weapons
Chaos Sorcerer Lord 
Gaunt Summoner
Gaunt Summoner

Tzaangors (10) 
Tzaangors (10) 

Plan in most games will be to take the second turn if possible and then blast what ever comes into range all the while advancing with a wall of Tzaangors backed by a nasty melee-centric Lord of Change. I wonder if it's worth sacrificing the Lord of Change and maybe two other wizards to get a big unit of 6 Skyfires. Thoughts? 

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Here's a list to provoke some thought. I believe that it is both Slaves to Darkness Allegiance (for Battleline purposes only cf. Ironjawz and Destruction Allegiance Pack); and Tzeentch Allegiance (with keyword choices):

LEADERS
Chaos Lord On Daemonic Mount (140)
- General
- Command Trait : Incorporeal Form - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact : Phantasmal Weapons
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (140)
- Runestaff
- Steed
Chaos Sorcerer Lord On Manticore (240)
UNITS
10 x Chaos Knights (400)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Slaves to Darkness Battleline
20 x Chaos Warriors (360)
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Battleline
10 x Chaos Marauder Horsemen (200)
- Slaves to Darkness Battleline
WOUNDS: 114 TOTAL POINTS: 1480 / 2000

You would want to take turn one or be given it and get one of the two wizards to summon on the LoC pretty pronto (using Destiny Dice - cannot take a risk here), then the LoC can Gateway and summon something else.

Just a way of bringing a StoD army into the new book - bridging the gap etc..

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Sorry if this has been posted before.

Making the Ogroid a force to be reckoned with:

Soul Burn - additional mortal wound on to wound of 6
Spiteful Shield - reflect 6s to hit as mortal wound
Treacherous Bond (CV 6) - 2+ look out sir versus any wound/mw

Fighting a LoC ---

He'll do 3 wounds to a LoC, soul burn an extra 0.7 mortal wounds , and 'spite' 0.75 mortal wounds.

With an effective armor save better than a 2+ un-modifiable he will take only 1.14 wounds back.  Then he heals and you can even stick him in Fatesworn for rend on the hooves.  Keep a unit of acolytes as the ablative wounds and keep them out of combat.  Sub out soul burn for a real general for less damage.  Or give him boundless mutation to really keep him ticking.

He'll keep a thundertusk at bay without flinching.

Now if only you could get two additional fate spells on the Curseling with soul burn, infusion, and bond you'd have quite a combo...

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As discussed on another thread.

I've been looking at this list even before the book came out (it's no longer possible to include Kairos in the Changehost, but it is possible to fill up the requirements with 40 point units of Brimstones.

This is my version:

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability 
Lord Of Change (300)
The Changeling (140)
The Blue Scribes (120)
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Staff of Change

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
10 x Chaos Knights (400)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Slaves to Darkness Battleline
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)

Units
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)

Battalions
The Hosts Duplicitous (50)
Changehost (60)

Total: 1970/2000

The trick is to fill the Changehost with Brimstones, so that the mandatory units in the Battalions only come to about 1500 points. I then tacked on some Marauders for cheap Battleline and Knights for a bit of toughness and ward saves vs mortal wounds (I have 10 painted ones already).

There are far nastier things you can do with two swaps. Either swap the Changeling (who is somewhere in the enemy half of the table which is a big area) for the LoC (who is withing 27" of himself), who then casts the debuff spell Scintillating Simulacra (horrific debuff) and Gateway. Then you can simply swap them back, leaving the Changeling in place (either to do the same trick the next turn or to have him cast a third spell (revealing itself); and then attack someone with one of their weapons (with Destiny Dice). Watch out for Gryph Hounds (which might be about to become a tad more popular).

Alternatively  nudge up one Brimstone unit to 30 and do the swap of the Changeling and LoC as above, then swap the LoC for the 30 Brimstones keeping a nice line of 30 models 4" away from their front line, this will block their movement for a turn.

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Hey hey,

Hope you guys can give a gor some assistance.  I'm looking to run a Tzaangor heavy force at 2k.

Something like:

Tzaangor Coven: 20 Tzaangor, 3 Skyfire, 3 Enlightened

Tzaangor Coven: 20 Tzaangor, 3 Skyfire, 3 Enlightened

Arcanite Cabal: Tzaangor Shaman, Tzaangor Shaman, Fatemaster

Leaves me at 1740.  Still require another Battleline.  However, with this I end up with 4 Magic items, so if I were to throw another character into the Cabal, or take an Ogroid or Gaunt, everyone can be fancy.  The Three Amigo each hopefully giving the Shaman an extra spell.  May be difficult juggling positioning though.

Can a list like this work, or is this ridiculous?  Is the LoC an auto-include unless you're silly?  The Blue Scribes and Changeling also look so tempting but as other people have mentioned, its hard getting all the toys in there.

What do I do!?

Edit: Actually that puts me at like 1870 which means I can even fit another Battleline in!  Back to the drawing board for me, but any assistance in getting a list like this working would be much appreciated.

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6 hours ago, Nico said:

As discussed on another thread.

I've been looking at this list even before the book came out (it's no longer possible to include Kairos in the Changehost, but it is possible to fill up the requirements with 40 point units of Brimstones.

This is my version:

Leaders
Lord Of Change (300)
- General
- Trait: Incorporeal Form - Tzeentch Daemon Hero
- Artefact: Aura of Mutability 
Lord Of Change (300)
The Changeling (140)
The Blue Scribes (120)
Herald Of Tzeentch (120)
- Staff of Change

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (140)
10 x Chaos Marauders (60)
10 x Chaos Knights (400)
- Ensorcelled Weapons
- Slaves to Darkness Battleline
20 x Chaos Marauders (120)

Units
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)
10 x Brimstone Horrors Of Tzeentch (40)

Battalions
The Hosts Duplicitous (50)
Changehost (60)

Total: 1970/2000

The trick is to fill the Changehost with Brimstones, so that the mandatory units in the Battalions only come to about 1500 points. I then tacked on some Marauders for cheap Battleline and Knights for a bit of toughness and ward saves vs mortal wounds (I have 10 painted ones already).

There are far nastier things you can do with two swaps. Either swap the Changeling (who is somewhere in the enemy half of the table which is a big area) for the LoC (who is withing 27" of himself), who then casts the debuff spell Scintillating Simulacra (horrific debuff) and Gateway. Then you can simply swap them back, leaving the Changeling in place (either to do the same trick the next turn or to have him cast a third spell (revealing itself); and then attack someone with one of their weapons (with Destiny Dice). Watch out for Gryph Hounds (which might be about to become a tad more popular).

Alternatively  nudge up one Brimstone unit to 30 and do the swap of the Changeling and LoC as above, then swap the LoC for the 30 Brimstones keeping a nice line of 30 models 4" away from their front line, this will block their movement for a turn.

I'm looking to build that same super battalion. I thought the LoC couldn't be swapped himself? Also you can't swap the same units twice. It says two different pairs.

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I have one question... Anyone know if  GW is going to throw an Arcanite start collecting?

I dont want go daemons, only the Lord of changue, pink, blue and brimstone horrors. Thats why I want go as mortal plus arcanites at 2000 and above points, and include the daemons at 2500. But I dont want buy 20 tzaangors or 1 box of Acolytes, or a shaman and see him in the start collecting box (cause I probably buy two of them). What I do with 3 shamans, or 60 Kairic Acolytes? Probably i Can use 40 acolites and 2 shamans but not 60 kairic or 3 shamans? thats too much... I need know if they are going to throw a start collecting and what include the box to start buy my tzeentch force arround it :/

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3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I'm looking to build that same super battalion. I thought the LoC couldn't be swapped himself? Also you can't swap the same units twice. It says two different pairs.

Changeling <-> LoC and LoC <-> Brimstone must be two different pairs or what do you think?

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3 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

I have one question... Anyone know if  GW is going to throw an Arcanite start collecting?

I dont want go daemons, only the Lord of changue, pink, blue and brimstone horrors. Thats why I want go as mortal plus arcanites at 2000 and above points, and include the daemons at 2500. But I dont want buy 20 tzaangors or 1 box of Acolytes, or a shaman and see him in the start collecting box (cause I probably buy two of them). What I do with 3 shamans, or 60 Kairic Acolytes? Probably i Can use 40 acolites and 2 shamans but not 60 kairic or 3 shamans? thats too much... I need know if they are going to throw a start collecting and what include the box to start buy my tzeentch force arround it :/

Start collecting for a new army, expect to wait 6-12 months.

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54 minutes ago, Nevvermore said:

Start collecting for a new army, expect to wait 6-12 months.

The silvaneth start collecting was launched after a month the army release.... The first miniature see the light in June of 2016, and they trow the start  collecting in July of 2016...(and the book in September of 2016, the first book after general handsbook).

And i think... If they follow the format of the new tzeentch book... They May include the wanderers on the silvaneth aliance, or Gw is going to do a book with all the aelves, and dwarfs, but subdivided in the book as the arcanites, mortals and tzeentch daemons??? Hmmm i like the format of the tzeentch book (and the next stormcast book in February) a lot xD

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7 minutes ago, Iradekhorne said:

The silvaneth start collecting was launched after a month the army release.... The first miniature see the light in July of 2016, and they trow the start in June of 2016

But there was only 1 model from the new releases in there, rest was just repack to round bases. With Arcanites you shall get only new stuff, completely different cup of tea ;)

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And the tzeentch grand daemon, but all of them doesn't have his own box..., now they have... And the warscrolls also changed (GW gived them points, you couldn't play it in matched play before, only the heros had points).

And another question... Where go the disc of tzeentch profile of the everchosen Gaunt Summoner?? Oo he missed it in the warp?  haha

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5 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

Only new model is skyfires and tzangor shaman. Acolytes, and tzangor plus's ogroid and the gaunt summoner were in silver tower. 

But as a release, they're brand new to AoS,  you couldn't buy them them outside of silver tower previously

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1 hour ago, Arkiham said:

But as a release, they're brand new to AoS,  you couldn't buy them them outside of silver tower previously

The tzangor did have AOS rules and could be fielded if you had the models. I don't think we will be waiting that long for it. 

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1 hour ago, N_Watson said:

Only new model is skyfires and tzangor shaman. Acolytes, and tzangor plus's ogroid and the gaunt summoner were in silver tower. 

Those were different models, we're talking about kits. Tzaangor, Arcanites, Tzaangor Skyfires, Shaman, they are all completely new kits. Pretty sure they won't be releasing a Start Collecting with these models for quite a while, like I said I expect 6-12 months.

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