Free Spirit battalion

[Dirt Rey]

Let's you move towards a single target opponent model or terrain peice in the hero phase as if it was the movement phase. Cannot run. 

Can a person use this to use the Root travel skills of the sylveneth? 

[tyler1906]

I would think so.

[Khastarax]

If the unit starts the movement phase within 3 " range from a Wyldwood and also able to teleport to a different Wyldwood, then "yes".

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[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Khastarax said:

If the unit starts the movement phase within 3 " range from a Wyldwood and also able to teleport to a different Wyldwood, then "yes".

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I'm quite sure there is still a lot of debate about this one.

 

[Nico]

Yes - subject to rulings of TOs.

[Khastarax]

Update: the recent errata/faq clarified the rules regarding this.

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[Aezeal]

17 minutes ago, Khastarax said:

Update: the recent errata/faq clarified the rules regarding this.

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And the conclusion is? I mean... just say it

[Khastarax]

7 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

And the conclusion is? I mean... just say it

Took me a while to dig it through lol but if I am to try explain it, it is that the Free Spirit ballation special rule to make a movement (that must always end closer to the chosen target when used)  during the Hero phase "as if it was the Movement phase" (i.e.: you can't end up closer than 3" from enemy units and other restrictions for Movement phase maneouvers, etc.) will not allow it to "teleport" in the Hero phase.

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

After digging through it myself, I would say it does allow you to, but I could easily be mistaken. It seems to work like any other move, shoot, combat ability that is done in the hero phase. Just like the Spire Guardians shooting a unit of Reavers in the hero phase and then using their free move ability. 

[Aezeal]

6 minutes ago, Khastarax said:

Took me a while to dig it through lol but if I am to try explain it, it is that the Free Spirit ballation special rule to make a movement (that must always end closer to the chosen target when used)  during the Hero phase "as if it was the Movement phase" (i.e.: you can't end up closer than 3" from enemy units and other restrictions for Movement phase maneouvers, etc.) will not allow it to "teleport" in the Hero phase.

I agree with you .. you are only allowed to do regular moves with that action right?

[Khastarax]

To further explain the original point that I did not elaborate on before, you can only make a regular "Movement" with this trait but if you end up moving close enough to a Sylvaneth Wyldwood by the time of the beginning of the Movement phase you would be able to "Root teleport".

The rules for "Realmroots" teleport is that it's a specific type of movement that occurs in the MOVEMENT PHASE.

[Khastarax]

Yes, and they also cannot "run" if using this rule. Also, Navigate Realmroots only occurs in the Movement Phase.

Both of which were further and more elaborately explained in the new Rules FAQ at GW's site.
 

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

3 minutes ago, Khastarax said:

To further explain the original point that I did not elaborate on before, you can only make a regular "Movement" with this trait but if you end up moving close enough to a Sylvaneth Wyldwood by the time of the beginning of the Movement phase you would be able to "Root teleport".

The rules for "Realmroots" teleport is that it's a specific type of movement that occurs in the MOVEMENT PHASE.

Everyone of these rules that adds an extra move, shoot, or combat, specifies that it happens in that hero phase(or whenever) as if it were the appropriate phase. So a unit that can move in the hero phase does so as if were the movement phase, and have to follow those restrictions, like 3" of an enemy, and these special rules usually have an extra restriction like no running.  While the Realmroots says the MOVEMENT PHASE, the root teleport says as if the MOVEMENT PHASE

[Khastarax]

I am interpreting the example used in that FAQ as even though you may have an ability during the Hero phase that says "may shoot as if it was the Shooting phase", it would not allow you to make use of "activated" abilities that can be used in the Shooting phase other than using it's missile weapon stat

Page 2,  "Movement", source: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf
 

_

[Aezeal]

45 minutes ago, NoTurtlesAllowed said:

Everyone of these rules that adds an extra move, shoot, or combat, specifies that it happens in that hero phase(or whenever) as if it were the appropriate phase. So a unit that can move in the hero phase does so as if were the movement phase, and have to follow those restrictions, like 3" of an enemy, and these special rules usually have an extra restriction like no running.  While the Realmroots says the MOVEMENT PHASE, the root teleport says as if the MOVEMENT PHASE

have you read the new FAQ at all?

[NoTurtlesAllowed]

28 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

have you read the new FAQ at all?

I read all of it several times. Which Answer am I missing in it? I would like to know so I don't play it incorrectly if I am wrong.

 

Ok. I found it now. Thanks for the help on this one.

[Khastarax]

Glad we could finally settle this issue!

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[Nico]

The FAQ answer means that ALL phase dependent abilities don't work in a deemed phase in the hero phase. This means Navigate Realmroots doesn't work in a deemed movement phase.

However, it also means that a phase dependent shield against attacks in the shooting phase (Verminlord Deceiver) doesn't work against Kunning Rukk Arrer Boyz in the deemed shooting phase in the hero phase. Then in the actual shooting phase*, the VLD's shield (-2 to hit) ability switches on like a light switch. We will all need to remember these phase dependencies.

This makes Kunning Rukk even better.

This applies to the units own passive abilities, external buffs, external debuffs and the target units' abilities, buffs and debuffs.

*In reality, the Arrer Boyz have killed it 4 times over in the hero phase.

[Khastarax]

2 hours ago, Nico said:

The FAQ answer means that ALL phase dependent abilities don't work in a deemed phase in the hero phase. This means Navigate Realmroots doesn't work in a deemed movement phase.

However, it also means that a phase dependent shield against attacks in the shooting phase (Verminlord Deceiver) doesn't work against Kunning Rukk Arrer Boyz in the deemed shooting phase in the hero phase. Then in the actual shooting phase*, the VLD's shield (-2 to hit) ability switches on like a light switch. We will all need to remember these phase dependencies.

This makes Kunning Rukk even better.

This applies to the units own passive abilities, external buffs, external debuffs and the target units' abilities, buffs and debuffs.

*In reality, the Arrer Boyz have killed it 4 times over in the hero phase.

Oh God, why... that's just bonkers!

[rokapoke]

The reason things don't work in "deemed shooting phases in the hero phase" is that they are explicitly not "deemed shooting phases" -- the rule works as written, that you can do things as if it were the other phase. It doesn't create a miniature shooting/movement/combat phase. 

[Aezeal]

Basicly it means the rule isn't written clearly . If this is what they want they should have defined it better I'd say.  Not "as if it where the movementphase" but just" the unit can make a move in the x phase,  using it's movement characteristic and otherwise following the normal rules for moving " . But maybe people would still have tried the same thing and the FAQ would still have been needed.

[Nico]

It's somewhat subjective, but to me that's putting a very narrow interpretation of "as if".

The FAQ way isn't how most players played it - at least at UK events.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

It's somewhat subjective, but to me that's putting a very narrow interpretation of "as if".

The FAQ way isn't how most players played it - at least at UK events.

Yes. And apparently that was not what was intended.. so if the majority of people interpreted it incorrectly... that must mean it's not written clearly right?

[Nico]

Quote

And apparently that was not what was intended.

Where is your source for this?

I'm speculating when I say that they probably didn't intend to buff Kunning Rukk by nerfing various protections against it; and creating seeming random distinctions between buffs that do and don't work in deemed phases. There might be a good reason for the change, like some new battalion in Tzeentch that would be broken if various buffs do work in a deemed phase for example.

[Aezeal]

3 minutes ago, Nico said:

Where is your source for this?

I'm speculating when I say that they probably didn't intend to buff Kunning Rukk by nerfing various protections against it; and creating seeming random distinctions between buffs that do and don't work in deemed phases. There might be a good reason for the change, like some new battalion in Tzeentch that would be broken if various buffs do work in a deemed phase for example.

I just meant the original interpretation vs the rule as FAQ-ed. The original majority interpretation (as you said and as I've read here) is not what they ended up putting in the FAQ (as I read it) thus it was not written in a way that reflects their intentions (assuming those intentions have not changed of course, which is what you might be implying).