verminus clawpack 2K tourny list help!

[Sneak]

Hey folks! I have 8 2K pitched battles under my belt with my verminus clawpack and plan on using them this weekend in a 2K tournament. I am having trouble finding a 3rd hero I like. I've tried the Arch warlock, engineer and verminlord. I have yet to try the grey seer but added him to help with battleshock and 2 more warpfire teams to make 2K. Any CC or recommendations would be great! 

Leaders
Skaven Warlord (100)
- Warpforged Blade
Skaven Chieftain With Battle Standard (140)
- Artefact: Chaos Talisman
Grey Seer (120)
- General
- Trait: Lord of War
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest

Units
Clanrats x 30 (180)
- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 30 (180)
- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 30 (180)
- Rusty Spear
Stormvermin x 30 (420)
- Halberd
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 2 (120)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 2 (120)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 1 (60)
Stormfiends x 3 (300)
- Warpfire Projectors

Battalions
Verminus Clawpack (80)


Total: 2000/2000
 

 

[Dez]

The reason to take the Arch Warlock or a Verminlord is 3 Places of Power, you need to be ready for all matched play scenarios. Arch Warlock is my go to for this, a 3+ save that can be made a 2+ (he can cast Mystic Shield on himself) and 6 wounds is really nice. Warlords are too easy to kill off. I'd used the Banner Warlord before...but found that between +2 from the Verminus Clawpack as well as Inspiring Presence I didn't need him.

Two other key Heroes to consider: Sayl the Faithless and Tretch Craventail. Buff a unit of 30 Stormvermin or Clan Rats with +1 attack, -1 to rend and double damage on 6's. Then Sayl gives them Traitorous Myst and they fly 18". You can take out half of someones army with this combo, especially if you put Inspiring Presence and Mystic Shield on them. Take a Warbringer and cast Death Frenzy. On Stormfiends it's just as horrendous with all the mortal wounds.

I'd consider a packmaster too. Throt the Unclean is hard to kill, and can regenerate wounds by eating clan rats. The Clan Rats can surround him in 3 Places of Power, making it hard for your opponents to get in melee. Nom Nom Nom.

You'll need some more range too. I've been using Warplightning Cannons which are the bees knees. I also started testing out Ratling Guns and had great success with them.

 

[Sneak]

3 hours ago, Dez said:

The reason to take...

Thanks for the help! I never noticed Tretch was a warlord! I quite like the warlords gnash and naw with the formations buff all units for +1 attack though. I dont have a lightning cannon but i have 3 more stormfiends... 

 

[Sneak]

Updated list. 

Leaders
Tretch Craventail (100)
Skaven Warlord (100)
- Warpforged Blade
Skaven Chieftain With Battle Standard (140)
Sayl The Faithless (160)

Units
Clanrats x 30 (180)
- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 30 (180)
- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 30 (180)
- Rusty Spear
Stormvermin x 30 (420)
- Halberd
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 2 (120)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 1 (60)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 1 (60)
Stormfiends x 3 (300)
- Warpfire Projectors

Total: 2000/2000

[Tizianolol]

I ll try to put 3 stormfiends more.

with sayl are simply broken.

u can try to play 1x3 weapon team and 20 stormavermin for exemple:)

or u can drop chieftain ,1 weapon team,and only 10 rats

[Sneak]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

I ll try to put 3 stormfiends more.

with sayl are simply broken.

u can try to play 1x3 weapon team and 20 stormavermin for exemple:)

or u can drop chieftain ,1 weapon team,and only 10 rats

If I run a unit of 6 storm fiends I only have 3 with warpfire can't get the bits. Hard to find :(! Would be like 3 warpfire x2 ratling x1? 

And I'll never drop the chief hes my favorite

 

 

[Tizianolol]

I think u can give 6 warpfire. I didn't t find a limitation on the warscroll!!!

[Dez]

It's the bits for Warpfire that are hard to find, not a limitation on a Warscroll.

I personally think 30 Stormvermin is better than the extra mortal wounds. 91 3+ 3+ -2 doing double damage on 6's is actually scarier than 12d3 Mortal Wounds....because you can spread those Stormvermin out over more units. I've personally taken out half of a Bretonnian army in a round with this one unit. With 30 Wounds and a 3+ save (Mystic Shield) they're doing work and sticking around. Add in the Warbringer so that damage that does get through kills Stormvermin that hit back before they go...

I find the Stormfiends don't hit that hard in Combat. Not that great unbuffed, they need a Packmaster of some sort.

[Sneak]

16 hours ago, Dez said:

hard in Combat. Not that great unbuffed, they need a Packmaster of some sort.

i think you're evaluating based on damage output and not survivability. 6 2D3 moral wounds is very good... Not the best in combat but they shoot while in combat. They're by far MVP every game I've played. I use them to nuke hero guys.

Storm vermin deal more damage but I was thinking last night the flaw is their bravery. Storm vermin from a survivability perspective have 36 wounds vs 30 and a better save and higher bravery but cost 180pt more if I play 6. 

In the event this weekend im going to play 30 storm vermin and a cannon. And use the 3 fiends as support and see how it goes. Now just need to figure out my heros. 

 

[Dez]

Oh I'm not saying they aren't good as far as survivability,  4+ and 6 wounds each is nice. In fact, the Stormvermin don't stick around all that long. The fact that they can have a ton of frontage and deal a staggering alpha strike (using Sayl) is huge. This makes the Stormvermin priority #1 for your opponent. Meanwhile you are taking objectives with the rest of your army. I've just found taking 30 Stormvermin  and 3 Stormfiends to be better in my experience

[Tizianolol]

Sayl+ 6 stormfiends is broken..we can t say anything..I think one of best aos news is that u can build a big number of different list ..and that list perform good ( not only deathstar spam like 8")

so I wanna try to build a good list without sayl+ stormfiends!!:)

@Sneak another problem in your list is 3x30 clan rats. Ok u support them with weapon team but just 1 rat death each unit and u miss the +1 to wound.. I would play 2x40 and 1x10 ( use last unit to cover something big )!!

[Sneak]

21 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

@Sneak another problem in your list is 3x30 clan rats. Ok u support them with weapon team but just 1 rat death each unit and u miss the +1 to wound.. I would play 2x40 and 1x10 ( use last unit to cover something big )!!

its hit but yeah something I've been considering. 10 clan rats is so bad though pretty much battle shocked vs anything

[Sneak]

Updated list! I dropped tretch because sayl puts me over by 20pts. Now I have 80pts left. Should I add another weapon team or a packmaster for the storm fiends or somthing else? Also suggestions for artifact for the chieftain?

Leaders
Skaven Warlord (100)
- General
- Warpforged Blade
- Artefact: Crown of Conquest
Skaven Chieftain With Battle Standard (140)
- Artefact: Chaos Tailsmen
Sayl The Faithless (160)

Units
Clanrats x 40 (240)
- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 40 (240)
- Rusty Spear
Clanrats x 10 (60)
- Rusty Spear
Stormvermin x 30 (420)
- Halberd
Stormfiends x 3 (300)
- Warpfire Projectors
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 1 (60)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 1 (60)
Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team x 1 (60)

Battalions
Verminus Clawpack (80)

Total: 1920/2000

 

[Tizianolol]

Add another warpfire thrower weapon team for 1980 and u are ok:)!!

[Tizianolol]

I wanna post my 2k ,I wanna try a skaven/chaos army without sayl and stormfiends , and its pretty similar to yours

verminlord deceiver (320)

warlord (100)

arch warlock (140)

2x40 clan rats (480)

10 clan rats (60)

30 stormvermin (430)

3x1 warpfire weapon team (180)

verminus clawpack battalion (80)

warp lighting cannon (180)

Tot 1970

my only problem is defend objective,the fun part of this list is a chance to kill enemy general/strong hero/sayl/behemut general with a charge of 7+( deceiver when pop with magic) plus warping lighting cannon shots

[Dez]

Clan rats are great for objectives, they have the bodies to bubble wrap objectives so your opponents can't get to or contest them.

[Tizianolol]

I wanna test this!!!:)

[Terry Pike]

On 29/11/2016 at 7:52 PM, Tizianolol said:

Sayl+ 6 stormfiends is broken..we can t say anything.

While this combo is very strong (I've used it in 17 tournament games now) its far from broken and easily beaten by using chaff to stop the stormfiends getting into range and being able to shoot anything of value. If you find that you can simply push them into your opponent without any thought it may be time to find some tougher opponents.

[Nico]

I'm looking forward to seeing the final game of the Livestream. 

The Stormfiends have a 26 inch effective range, which is actually shorter than Judicators (29 inches), Kurnoth Hunters (35 inches - even before they teleport in) and even Prosecutors with Javelin Spam (which Plaguebearers also dislike). The theoretical maximum range of a Thundertusk is 34 inches (you need to be in the back 2 inches to be safe). Someone who simply built a list that ensured choice of first or second turn; and deployed their own pew pew within the gap between the effective range of the Stormfiends and their own effective range would make Terry's list take a very difficult decision.

For example if 3 Units of Kurnoth Hunters with bows and a Treelord Ancient in a Gnarlroot single drop army came up against the Stormfiends (or Durthu), then they could guarantee turn one. So unless Terry has been gifted an absurdly large piece of terrain to hide behind or get the models wholly into cover within (without "hiding" in a Wyldwood), he's going to lose a lot of Stormfiends turn one before mystic shield and before inspiring presence/Crown of Conquest go on. If you kill 3 (18 wounds 4+ save, it's not impossible), he's losing the whole unit on a 6 Battleshock test - so that could force him to waste the Kairos Oracle rule. Maybe he will use it earlier to stop the cannonball from the Ancient. If you kill 4, it's a lot worse, if you kill 5 you've almost certainly won the game, since the rest of the army isn't enough on its own even with the inevitable double turn. I haven't cranked the maths, but I would hope that that level of shooting could do the job. 

Alternatively you could try to down Sayl or you could give Terry turn one and stay largely off the table (other than an out of range hero with an Acorn to drop another Wyldwood. 

I would have thought that some Stormcast lists would also be a horrible counter to this. Especially Brian Carmichael's genius Javelin spam list.