Can grots be used in the great moonclan?

[Salarath]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before, I had a look but couldn't find an answer; can grots (moonclan) and warboss etc be used to fulfil the compendium battalion great moonclan? They have identical (I think?) rules to the night goblins but have a different name. Can anyone advise me on this? Many thanks

 

George

[gnaleinad]

Certainly not. Although the Keywords for this battalion cannot be found now, just go to GW homepage and download the Orcs and Goblins Army book. In it, it is stated clearly on what is a "Night Goblin", the keyword will be there.

[Double Misfire]

@gnaleinad that might seem like the most logical interpretation of the rules, but this is GW we're talking about and you're actually wrong.

This question came up in a thread about the Empire State Troop Detachment battalion having points a few months ago and was answered by the GW rules guys on facebook:

Quote

Hi another question. The State Troop detachment has points in the GHB but there are no state troops any more. Can this be run with Freeguild units? Otherwise it seems fundamentally pointless, pardon the pun.

 

19:25

Yes, that's the intent. Run the new Warscrolls, with the Battalion bonus. Thanks, - Eddie

I welcome this decision as invalidating and not replacing the compendium battalions would cripple a lot of the older WFB armies, especially Destruction ones.

If you want a detailed description, the old units with new names, for example Freeguild Guard and State Troops or (Moonclan) Grots and Night Goblins are simply old and new versions of the same warscroll, in the same way that the Empire compendium Warrior Priest has different rules to the Devoted of Sigmar Warrior Priest. (Moonclan) Grots are an updated version of the Night Goblin warscroll with a different name, not a brand new warscroll; compendium units who had their models retired and did not receive warscrolls like Ellyrian Reavers and Settra still got matched play points in the GHB.  

[gnaleinad]

I do not know what are you talking about when it already been FAQed.

[gnaleinad]

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf

Under Warscrolls

[Double Misfire]

15 minutes ago, gnaleinad said:

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Errata/warhammer_aos_rules_en.pdf

Under Warscrolls

I don't know which question in the FAQ you're talking about, could you please point it out to me? The FAQ was published before the thread I linked to and GW's facebook response and I couldn't find anything on it regarding updated warscrolls who's names had changed and their place in older battalions then. 

It's worth noting in the case of the Grots/Night Goblins and Great Moonclan battalion the OP describes, that several people took the Great Moonclan to GW's recent Warlords matched play event and didn't catch any heat from the tournament organisers or any rules lawyers for it.

[gnaleinad]

Here you go

[gnaleinad]

I would strong recommend referring to the FAQs for all the faction to understand what had been answered! It will also widen your knowledge of any misreading of rules when you game.

[Double Misfire]

That doesn't dispute anything I previously said. What I said is that [Moonclan] Grots are an updated version of an older warscroll (Night Goblins) - in this case the update includes a name change but otherwise they are no different to the updated warscroll for say the Celestial Hurricanum. The GW facebook post concerning the Empire Compendium State Troop formation states confirms that the intent behind giving matched play points to compendium formations that require warscrolls with old names that did not receive matched play points was so that players could use these formations in matched play games using the new warscrolls and names for their required units - for example being able to use an Abhorant Ghoul King as the Charnel Pit Carrion Batallion's Strigoi Ghoul King.

[BaldoBeardo]

Double's got the truth of it - and your own evidence goes against your argument.
Sorry Dan.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[gnaleinad]

@Double Misfire Now I see it..
What was I saying? LOLOLOLOL. HAHAHAHA.
Indeed I was proving myself to be wrong!

2 hours ago, gnaleinad said:

Certainly not. Although the Keywords for this battalion cannot be found now, just go to GW homepage and download the Orcs and Goblins Army book. In it, it is stated clearly on what is a "Night Goblin", the keyword will be there.

I did not know when did I type in the "not". LOLOLOL. One big confusion!! I meant certainly! LOLOLOLOLOLOL
 

[Nico]

Basically the FAQ answers open the door to keywords being backwards compatible. How far ajar the door has gone is then a matter of heated debate, of which there has been a tonne on this forum.

Some in the USA have pushed it pretty far (see Warhammer Weekly or @Mc1gamerfor examples).

It's hard to draw limits on the backwards compatibility. In my view:

• Trying to say that Black Orc Big Boss = Megaboss = Megaboss on Maw Krusha or Gordrakk and the Ironjawz Big Mob to allow Gordrakk to buff himself and a whole army of Ardboyz is pushing it too far (only the first step is wrong).
• Using the Charnel Pit battalion and the old (incredibly broken - especially on the new Terrorgheist) command ability on the Old Scroll of the Ghoul King is pushing it too far.  

I've made my peace with the likelihood that TK, Brets and anachronistic named characters are going to drop out the GH at some stage (despite investing quite a lot of time and money into these) - they've given me great games. It would be nice if the Catapult could be retained at least. If anyone is up for a one-off tournament grudge game where I can use Krell pointed as per the Wight King, then please do let me know.

It would also be nice if tournaments allowed sensible proxying of legacy models, e.g. Necropolis Knights into Morghasts for a time.

What's more troubling is that some tournaments are potentially wiping out about 10 potential armies by comping the Compendium stuff already where there aren't new books or battalions to plug the gap. 

I can live without the hated Skaven BSB. I'll have to retire little Archaon on horse, but hopefully Archaon on useless Dorghar who cannot even fly over a line of Grots without running will come down to 600-640 points. However for the Gitmob Grot Warboss to mysteriously disappear when his counterpart from Moonclan is in the Destruction Book is curious. 

Every army that isn't TK and Brets should at least have a command ability and (at least) one battalion (if they had them already in the PDFs). This is even more the case for Greenskinz, who actually have an AoS start collecting box and are a fairly popular and integral and iconic army to Warhammer and certainly a good bridge for people coming from 8th or T9A. Why burn those bridges down now?

I've played against a Bullgor Stampede and it was an absolutely brilliant game (even if I was less than pleased at the unreliability of 3+, 3+, -1, 3 damage on Fulminators). The army looked sensational and was great fun to play with and against. Thanks Wayne.

I would have pushed the button on doing it myself, but the uncertainty over the army stopped me. It needs the Battalion to be playable.

The ones that spring to mind are:

• Goblin Warboss
• Great Gitmob
• Great Moonclan
• Greenskinz Big Mob
• Bullgor Stampede
• Ironjawz Big Mob (really hoping that the new Ironjawz box contains a pointed battalion).
• Spiderfang Venom Mob (they are in the fluff in the Everchosen Book - the best part of that book).
• Black Orc Big Boss (less fussed on this one).

Obviously it's more of an issue for Destruction as the Order and Chaos books had new battalions for many of the sub-factions. Death don't deserve battalions, because they have the most Warscrolls, lots of shooting units and their top tier named characters are viable and commonly played at tournaments with success.... More seriously the Ward Save (the best allegiance pack overall) is the thing that keeps them roughly balanced with the other 3 Grand Alliances - a smart move since you cannot catch up the Warscroll gap in a short period of time.

#HoodedVillain4Eva