Pink Horrors, worth 140 points?

[hobgoblinclub]

Before the General's Handbook came out I was a massive fan of pink horrors. They could shoot, spam arcane bolt and generally skirt the edges of the fray snipping in support of your big hitters. 

Now that the Handbook has priced them at 140 points and given us the three rules of one, I just feel they've lost some of their usefulness.

140 points would be fine if they were arcane bolting or mystic shielding all over the place. However, by limiting an army to one attempted casting of each spell, when you're done with your magic heavy, multiple spelled Tzeentch characters, the chances are the horrors won't have anything left to do. Most of the time, this leaves them as a pricey shooting unit.

When/if we get points for blue horrors, I think we'll find the' horror family' become one of the best units in the game for holding objectives (ten pink horrors would produce 50 wounds).

Until then though, I just feel that the rules changes of the General's Handbook have damaged the pink horrors more than most.

What do you think? 

[yarrickson]

I would pretty much agree with what you are saying above. Caveat though: I run a (mostly) Khorne army, and once I have filled up my hero slots with combat prowess, buffers and sayl, I love the flexibility of a battleline 10 wound, 10 model wizard unit to give me mystic shield access. 

The horrors are pretty poor in a tzeentch based force under the GH though. 

[hobgoblinclub]

2 minutes ago, yarrickson said:

The horrors are pretty poor in a tzeentch based force under the GH though. 

Which seems like poor game design, although they were great and it's obviously been the Handbook release that's happered their effectiveness. I'm guessing, when we see an eventual Tzeentch battletome, they'll remedy this and give them a role. To be honest, I'd be more than happy with a legal way to use blue horrors in matched play. The idea of the enemy having to cut through waves of jibbering horrors pouring all over the objectives is fluffy and cinematic. It'd be great. 

[Arkiham]

Well, you still have to pay for the unit of blue Horrors,  and brimstone Horrors. so they'll cost a lot more than 140. 

[Iradekhorne]

 

41 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

When/if we get points for blue horrors, I think we'll find the' horror family' become one of the best units in the game for holding objectives (ten pink horrors would produce 50 wounds).

Ten pink horrors produce 60 wounds plus his own 10 wounds (70 in total xd)

Pink orrors are ok

I used them at mortal tzeentch army with curseling, tzeentch lord and the horrors.

They are very good taking safe objectives shooting someting and casting místic or arcane Bolt. Always one or both of my 2 heros die with shooting or somenting but the horrors continue his job. I think one unit of 10 horrors are better than some wizards.

Battleline, bit shooting, bodies and wizard... I think 140 is OK for him, I prefer 10 horrors than a tzeentch socerer  lord, for example. 

You cant build an army arround this guys but they work very well as support and for cover battleline spot

[hobgoblinclub]

20 minutes ago, Iradekhorne said:

Ten pink horrors produce 60 wounds plus his own 10 wounds (70 in total xd)

How 70? 10 pink + 20 blue + 20 brimstone, no? 

[Taketheskull]

I think the Blue Horrors split into 2 Brimstone..?

[yarrickson]

59 minutes ago, Taketheskull said:

I think the Blue Horrors split into 2 Brimstone..?

Nah just one per the war scroll in the app anyway. In fact the wording in the app references blue and pink horrors by accident. 

[Iradekhorne]

lol is true, I always was thinking about the blue horrors splitting on 2 again, and they split on single brimstone horror Oo I was wrong, sorry

[kozokus]

I think you can't field them as they do not have point costs

[hobgoblinclub]

19 minutes ago, kozokus said:

I think you can't field them as they do not have point costs

Yeah, this is the issue. With a points cost the opponent would have to churn through the wounds to shift them. 

[Sadysaneto]

Wait... you have to pay for blue and brim? its not a triggered effect?

[hobgoblinclub]

28 minutes ago, Sadysaneto said:

Wait... you have to pay for blue and brim? its not a triggered effect?

Any models you put on the table are classed as reinforcements. You'd have to put aside points for them. Obviously, you can use them in open/narrative play. 

[Arkiham]

29 minutes ago, Sadysaneto said:

Wait... you have to pay for blue and brim? its not a triggered effect?

I know right. 

I'd happily pay 200-250 points if they turned automatically without cost. so 10 pink Horrors,  20 blue Horrors ,  20 brimstone Horrors. 140 then 100 then 100 is a lot to ask 

[hobgoblinclub]

12 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

I know right. 

I'd happily pay 200-250 points if they turned automatically without cost. so 10 pink Horrors,  20 blue Horrors ,  20 brimstone Horrors. 140 then 100 then 100 is a lot to ask 

I'm not sure they could price it like that because some people won't have blue/brimstone horror models, and will just want to field pink horrors. 

Also, are you just assuming 100 points for blue and brimstone? 

[Sadysaneto]

24 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

Any models you put on the table are classed as reinforcements. You'd have to put aside points for them. Obviously, you can use them in open/narrative play. 

Actually models dont cost points. units do.  isnt it?

But my point is - if its a triggered effect, you shouldnt have to pay points for it. the cost for the effect should have been added to the unit cost. maybe it had, and heres is why its 140 pts.

[Iradekhorne]

But even if they have a good point cost you only need ignore the pink horrors and go kill the rest of the army, because pink horrors arent a big issue.

[hobgoblinclub]

14 minutes ago, Sadysaneto said:

Actually models dont cost points. units do.  isnt it?

But my point is - if its a triggered effect, you shouldnt have to pay points for it. the cost for the effect should have been added to the unit cost. maybe it had, and heres is why its 140 pts.

It's a complicated one.  Technically you are introducing a new unit, just an under-strength one.

The issue with playing it this way would be that you're effectively putting down an under-strength unit every time a pink horror dies.  Would we be expected to pay for a whole unit every time we place two blue horrors?  Maybe this is why they haven't pointed them, because they're such a unique case, or maybe we are just supposed to play them as an ability, hence the high price of pink horrors.

[hobgoblinclub]

7 minutes ago, Iradekhorne said:

But even if they have a good point cost you only need ignore the pink horrors and go kill the rest of the army, because pink horrors arent so much big deal.

Not if you use the horrors to hold objectives, which you would if they split like this.

[Sadysaneto]

If you read blue horros scroll, it pretty much says theres no blues without pinks getting screwed.

I may be completly wrong, ofc, but i do believe its a triggered effect, like how courtiers bring ghouls and some chaos dude turns into a daemon prince.

Edit:

Oh, and the split is listed under abilities. and it states its a new unit, so, yeah, it would cost points.

Someone should ask gw about this.

[hobgoblinclub]

You wouldn't pay for the ghouls because they're just bolstering existing units.  I'm not sure about the daemon prince.

The blue horror scroll says they're set up 'as a new unit'.   Sadly, any new unit needs to be paid for.

I've asked on the AoS Facebook page.  Hopefully we'll get a reply as I'd love to start fielding them.

[Arkiham]

45 minutes ago, hobgoblinclub said:

I'm not sure they could price it like that because some people won't have blue/brimstone horror models, and will just want to field pink horrors. 

Also, are you just assuming 100 points for blue and brimstone? 

yeah just a quess, the blues are worse than the pinks and the brimstones again worse so makes sense they're cheaper. 

could call them different things i guess. horrific horrors or something. idc

[DarkBlack]

Seeing as most Tzeentch casters have a unique spell, the horrors usually end up casting bolt and shield for me. It is also nice to have more casters just so you have more options as to where you can cast a shield or a bolt.

140 does seem a bit steep though.

[hobgoblinclub]

1 hour ago, DarkBlack said:

Seeing as most Tzeentch casters have a unique spell, the horrors usually end up casting bolt and shield for me. It is also nice to have more casters just so you have more options as to where you can cast a shield or a bolt.

140 does seem a bit steep though.

The problem is the LoC of changes gets two, so always takes either arcane bolt or mystic shield or both, and the herald of tzeentch often gets a second spell and takes the other one. When you're running 2/3 units of horrors as battleline, most of all of them inevitably end up with nothing to cast.