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Let's chat Fyreslayers

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Duardin cavalry has always seemed weird to me.  However war beast and their handlers seems like a cool idea since they have such a close bond to their magmadroths.  Fire-breathing mini-magmadroths kinda of like temple/forge guardians and Duardin handlers that buff them when nearby.  That might be stepping on Seraphon and their Salamander's toes though.  Aside from that perhaps some kind of flame based artillery.  Short-ranged, no cover bonus, good rend, throws flames; what one might call a "flamethrower".

Before they can do that I think they really need to flesh about what the home life of Fyreslayers is like.  There's very little about what they do outside battle besides swearing oaths and body modification.  Lots of military and religion but they are still Duardin.  Where's the craftsmanship?  Have they totally abandoned Grungni?  How do they make a living outside of combat?  What do they eat and drink?  Do they still like ale?  How do they feel about other races?  Give us more Fyreslayer fluff!

PS:  Outside the Battletome, does anyone more of any other good Fyreslayer stories, novellas, audio dramas, etc.?

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PS:  Outside the Battletome, does anyone more of any other good Fyreslayer stories, novellas, audio dramas, etc.?

The Fyreslayers short stories collection has two decent stories: the first one by David Guymer (though it gets a bit too "let me describe these fights with unnecessary detail" towards the end) and the last one by Guy Haley. The middle two suck, unfortunately. But the last one by Haley alone makes the story worth it. It has some odd moments that make me think he kind of didn't have enough time to flesh out everything as he wanted, but it does give a glimpse of Fyreslayer culture outside of war. 

They do indeed still have the equivalent of guilds (the main character's wife is the daughter of the head of the Miner's Fellowship, which is basically a Miner's Guild ala Oldhammer Dwarfs), and they value trade/commerce with other peoples. It seems that female Fyreslayers hold prominent positions within these non-combat fellowships: the Mining Fellowship's leader is a woman, and Hearth-Matrons are mentioned among the leaders of the lodge. The hearth-matrons seem to possess some role in child-rearing and possess real social influence within the lodge, as they are mentioned to have saved one character (a deformed Runesmiter) from death as a child (apparently he would have been thrown into the lava, as they feared he was tainted by Chaos, but the Matrons were adamant he was pure, and so he lived).

Brewmistresses are also mentioned among the leaders of the lodge, and there is a rather awful pun made about "magmalt ale" (get it? Lava dwarfs with their lava beer!). Towards the end of the story, there is mention made of Fyreslayer farmers and goat-herders, living off the rich volcanic soil outside the holds. So they do have a culture outside of war, and they engage in many of the same commercial and agricultural activities of their Dwarfen forebears.

The story also goes into some of the intra-lodge politicking between the leaders of the lodge, particularly the Runesons. It's surprisingly decent, and really makes the Fyreslayers a bit more relatable than they've been presented so far.

Also, Josh Reynolds' wrote the very enjoyable Spear of Shadows novel, which features a Fyreslayer Doomseeker named Lugash as one of the main characters. It's without a doubt the best AoS novel written so far, and on par with many of the older Warhammer novels in terms of establishing the setting. I highly recommend it, and it gives some more insight not only into the Fyreslayers, but also into the Dispossessed. Grungni himself is a character in the novel, and he has a very cool scene where he talks to Grombrindal, where it is hinted (in my opinion) that the Grungni and Grimnir of AoS are not the same as the ones from Warhammer (specifically, Grungni cannot remember if Grombrindal is his descendant or his ancestor, and its somewhat implied that Grombrindal is indeed this Grungni's ancestor).

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I really need to read Spear of Shadows!  I just bought the Legends of AoS Omnibus and there are some Fyreslayers stories in there I'm looking forward to.  I swear I would buy the hell out of some AoS audiobooks!  Listened to all of them so far released but they stopped making them.  :'(

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I don't think I'd have too much of an issue with Fyreslayer cavalry per say, given their doctrine is much more "run at the enemy and smack him" than the Dwarfs of the Old World who lacked it largely because their strategum was so defensively focused. The 'danger' of a sort is they become too much like an Order(ly?) Blades of Khorne; red themes, berserkers, rush at getting into combat, no magic, little range, etc. 

I'd like to see something of a technological aspect played up. Not nearly as pervasive as it is with the Kharadrons or Dispossessed, but still reminding us that they're Dwarfs. It would help make them stand out as distinctly Dwarf-ish and not just short barbarians. A mole machine that can carry a unit with it perhaps? Golems were mentioned, which would be great (and looking amazing with internal fire effects). 

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Exactly!  They're still excellent craftsmen (craftsdwarfs?).  Golems empowered by ur-gold would be pretty sweet and a chance to get some monstrous infantry into the army.  

I'm imagining a Duardin society powered by ur-gold!  Ur-gold is used to run a variety of machines; golems, mining equipment, transportation, food production, health care, maybe even air ships.  Runesmiters use ur-gold in a myriad of practical, creative, and fantastical ways.  Ur-gold use finds its way into every aspect of Fyreslayer life.  But as time goes on suspicions begin to grow about the finite nature of ur-gold and fears that its being used up start to be voiced by parts of society.  Also the use of ur-gold releases small amounts of Grimnir's essence into the atmosphere over time leading to accumulations of Grimnir gasses. This leads to realm-wide "hotheadedness".  A movement arises to limit ur-gold use and research alternatives.

This movement is aggressively opposed by those groups that mine, process, and sell the resource.  These organizations launch a hugely effective, decades long misinformation campaign that casts doubts on the opposition's claims of resource depletion and the environmental impacts of its use.  This is quite profitable for some but leads to dangerous levels of the gasses building up in the atmosphere.  As forecast, the impacts from these gasses begin to be felt and those members of society who became wealthy from the extraction, processing, and sale of the resource use their political clout to prevent meaningful change.  Their accumulated also buffers themselves and parts of their own societies from the worst impacts of the environment change. 

Those people living outside these wealthy cultures suffer greatly as the environment they live in becomes increasingly hostile.  They find themselves unable to continue living their traditional ways of life and unable to cope with the changes.  Being somewhat less wealthy and privileged, they lack the resources to protect themselves or adapt.  Many find flight is their only option.  Millions suffer and many die as the consequences become unavoidable and mass migrations begin in an effort to find food, safety, and social stability. 

But when things look their bleakest, the wealthy Runesmiters from before invent some new technology that magically saves everyone and makes everything ok.  The End.

My favorite part of the my head-fluff is just how realistic it is; especially that last part!  :)

TLDR; totally not an allegory for climate change and ur-gold golems would be sweet!

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I like the idea of Fyreslayers riding giant salamanders, maybe 2-3 of these guys per unit.  Aesthetically, they need something else to break up the infantry.

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In keeping with their somewhat barbaric imagery, what about Fyreslayer chariots drawn by smaller Magmadroths (Magmadrothlings)? Give em some mortal wound impact hits, maybe a dual kit where one is an Auric version that has a larger magma-pike on it, and a Berserker version with a big armored Grimnir-face as a battering ram and a rider wielding big axe?

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I’m still since dat 1 hoping for a cavalry unit, something akin to demi-droths or younger Magmabombs.??

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7 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

I like the idea of Fyreslayers riding giant salamanders, maybe 2-3 of these guys per unit.  Aesthetically, they need something else to break up the infantry.

I think this and price is what's keeping me away from Fyreslayers.

The price we can get out of the way, it's too expensive for 5/10 man infantry blobs. A remnant of a price experiment gone wrong. You can clearly see this in the Idoneth Deepking, in that the Namarti Thralls cost less than the Vulkite Berserkers.

But I truly think the fact that there's nothing in between masses of barely clad Duardin and the Magmadroths. The Hearthguard are just not different enough to the Vulkite Berserkers to make the army interesting to paint. They're basically variations of the same models with different weaponry.

So I really do believe that some kind of mini-magmadroth (or some other fire based monster) cavalry or duardin ur-gold empowered golems or something is required to break this up. At the end of the day... why not both?

Certainly Fyreslayers is not a re-release I would mind. A few new units, perhaps a character made out of the cav kit, a new character to go along with the Golems (A sculpter/empowerer) and a new battletome that brings the allegiance abilities and other cool stuff into it.

That's the kind of mini-release I can get behind (As opposed to the ones Stormcast get every year).

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One reason that I like the idea of a smaller lizard is that I imagine them being able to ignore terrain and scale surfaces around the holds. Kind of like OB1 in Star Wars riding the lizard-thing. Seems like a cool unit aesthetically, gameplay-wise and with a good story tie-in as to why Fyreslayers would use them.

Edited by Warboss Gorbolg
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4 hours ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

One reason that I like the idea of a smaller lizard is that I imagine them being able to ignore terrain and scale surfaces around the holds. Kind of like OB1 in Star Wars riding the lizard-thing. Seems like a cool unit aesthetically, gameplay-wise and with a good story tie-in as to why Fyreslayers would use them.

salamander cav would be cool.

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I think magma tunneling salamanders would be more appropriate for the fyreslayers than cavalry, they could add some command ability to the runemaster to give them synergy options.

A runegolem seems like a no brainer too, covered with runes and and an icon of grimnir.

 

 

Edited by Hungsolo
Correction

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On 17-4-2018 at 1:02 AM, Kamose said:

Duardin cavalry has always seemed weird to me.  However war beast and their handlers seems like a cool idea since they have such a close bond to their magmadroths.  Fire-breathing mini-magmadroths kinda of like temple/forge guardians and Duardin handlers that buff them when nearby.  That might be stepping on Seraphon and their Salamander's toes though.  Aside from that perhaps some kind of flame based artillery.  Short-ranged, no cover bonus, good rend, throws flames; what one might call a "flamethrower".

Before they can do that I think they really need to flesh about what the home life of Fyreslayers is like.  There's very little about what they do outside battle besides swearing oaths and body modification.  Lots of military and religion but they are still Duardin.  Where's the craftsmanship?  Have they totally abandoned Grungni?  How do they make a living outside of combat?  What do they eat and drink?  Do they still like ale?  How do they feel about other races?  Give us more Fyreslayer fluff!

PS:  Outside the Battletome, does anyone more of any other good Fyreslayer stories, novellas, audio dramas, etc.?

I just (this morning ?)  finished legends of the fyreslayers. Especially the third story does excactly that. How dwarfs romance, how new lodges are formed, inheretance, criminal exiles and proficies all feature in just that last story alone. 

You can find it in the black library or iBooks. (Probably more, but that’s where I get my books) 

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Sweet!  I just ordered the Omnibus with the Sylvaneth, Skaven, and Fyreslayers stories.  Its on the way!  :) 

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This is waaay off from what you guys are currently discussing, but Vulkites in 1000pt games:

is it worth blocking up 30 (and essentially limiting yourself to two units in the Army not counting heroes) or do they work well enough at 20 in the 1k bracket? Those extra points net me a lot of space to bulk up (two 10xHGB for instance)

Edited by Molochmaschine
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Does anyone have some general pointers for building lists around 1k?

like good unit size for vulkites, heroes and abilities? that work well, whether magmadroths are worth it?

I have anything fyreslayer at my disposal but no allies

 

Also, what is the best way to counter ranged heavy armies e.g. skink and bastillodon lists? it feels very slow chugging up the board compared to sylvaneth that I usually play

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Runesmiter+Vulkites or Hearthguard deepstriking are always good, whether 1000 points or 2000 points.

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8 hours ago, Deepkin said:

Runesmiter+Vulkites or Hearthguard deepstriking are always good, whether 1000 points or 2000 points.

Forgive my ignorance but how exactly should you execute a deepstrike? I took 30 vulkites with my runesmiter to my opponents depolyment. They failed their charge then ate skink fire and carnosaur face for a double turn and died without doing a thing.

Is there a certain setup to improve the chances because they don't seem very reliable?

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Runeson general’s command ability, if you get him withing 10” of deepstriking unit(s)  you can roll three dice for their charge discarding lowest (furious onslaught). Works till next hero turn, so it doesnt matter that the units are tunneling during hero phase.

 

If you still haven’t gotten a 9” you still have horn of grimnir to reroll a dice.

 

 

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anyone else feel like fyreslayers need more units? its sucks that all we got not counting characters is 3 units and minus the vulkite berzerkers our other units are meh i dont think id use them. hearth gaurd berzerkers are just to expensive 100 for 5 one wound models is to much. and the aurics are ok nothing to great. I feel the fyreslayers need some more units and changes to hearth gaurd and aurics.... kinda sucks

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Just a quick question with the runeson on magmadroths command ability and how it works with the VB Horn. which happens first do you get to re-roll the dice first or discard one then re-roll if needed? 

 

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6 hours ago, Lord-Of-Scotland said:

Just a quick question with the runeson on magmadroths command ability and how it works with the VB Horn. which happens first do you get to re-roll the dice first or discard one then re-roll if needed? 

 

Doesn't matter in all cases since you can only "reroll one of the dice".

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8 hours ago, Qaz said:

Doesn't matter in all cases since you can only "reroll one of the dice".

I was in a situation the other day where I had made the charge with 2 of the dice but it was just the bare minimum I needed but if I could re-roll the third dice to try get a longer charge or would I have to discard one then risk the re-roll?

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On 2018-05-01 at 4:12 AM, Bimli said:

anyone else feel like fyreslayers need more units? its sucks that all we got not counting characters is 3 units and minus the vulkite berzerkers our other units are meh i dont think id use them. hearth gaurd berzerkers are just to expensive 100 for 5 one wound models is to much. and the aurics are ok nothing to great. I feel the fyreslayers need some more units and changes to hearth gaurd and aurics.... kinda sucks

I agree that we need more units but I don't agree that aurics are nothing to great.

On 2018-04-28 at 11:07 AM, cranc said:

Forgive my ignorance but how exactly should you execute a deepstrike? I took 30 vulkites with my runesmiter to my opponents depolyment. They failed their charge then ate skink fire and carnosaur face for a double turn and died without doing a thing.

Is there a certain setup to improve the chances because they don't seem very reliable?

The answer is that you dont rely on the charge, you use the vulkites to protect 30 tunneling Aurics that do all the damage.

And also do NOT tunnel outside the immune to battleshock bubble without using the immune to battleshock rune, that is a no no. Snake the models over the whole battlefield if you must. ;)

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3 hours ago, Lord-Of-Scotland said:

I was in a situation the other day where I had made the charge with 2 of the dice but it was just the bare minimum I needed but if I could re-roll the third dice to try get a longer charge or would I have to discard one then risk the re-roll?

Oh. My immediate read is that you discard first then reroll but I think you can decide the order of operation if it happens 'at the same time'. 

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