Let's chat Fyreslayers

[stratigo]

That is entirely possible. Luckily twas only a passing fancy. Well a "Man my meta is competitive and kharadrons are tough to play" fancy. But in the end I went kharadrons for, so far, half the price and repurposed old dwarves to be arknaughts.

[Superking]

How many start collecting boxes is too many? How many magmadroths are too many?

[Veterannoob]

 Never enough, I just finally used 4 last night!!

[Andreas]

So an Aurics alpha strike list won Blood and glory! 

Well done Andrew! ?

[Ruudy]

3 minutes ago, Andreas said:

So an Aurics alpha strike list won Blood and glory! 

Well done Andrew! ?

Do you have the list plz?

[Veterannoob]

Awesome to see!!

[Andreas]

2 hours ago, Ruudy said:

Do you have the list plz?

From looking at the twitch stream:

Auric Runefather (80)
Battlesmith (80)
Auric Runesmiter (80)
Auric Runesmiter (80)
30 x Vulkite Berzerkers (330)
30 x Vulkite Berzerkers (330)
30 x Vulkite Berzerkers (330)
30 x Auric Hearthguard (480)
6 x Skywardens (200)
 

[Auretious Taak]

Stupid question time as I fiddle with mixed duardin lists:

Vulkite Berzerkers with 2 Fyresteel handaxes, do they have 4 attacks with the fyresteel handaxes?

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Auretious Taak said:

Stupid question time as I fiddle with mixed duardin lists:

Vulkite Berzerkers with 2 Fyresteel handaxes, do they have 4 attacks with the fyresteel handaxes?

No ☹️

[Auretious Taak]

Just now, Andreas said:

No ☹️

Annoying. What's the usual loadout Vulkites run competitively in matched play?

[Andreas]

Just now, Auretious Taak said:

Annoying. What's the usual loadout Vulkites run competitively in matched play?

Most common is pickaxe with shields but double axes are also used. Both are good and viable.

[stratigo]

I like the pickaxe and shield the most conceptually. Rend is super useful, and you are usually banking on your vulkites being able to reroll saves, so that 4 up in combat is useful, and you're generating an average of 5 mortal wounds on a charge, which can be significant.

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

The pick and shields have  so much utility compared to the dual axes. Dual axes are good at blending through weak troops, and have decent saves but that’s about it.

picks can also go through weak troops, can snipe heroes, can do sneaky tricks with the shields, can also get through armour with the rend. 

[TheNotebookGM]

Hey quick question- got a pack of 5 Hearthguard/Aurics as a groomsman's gift and I want to throw them in my 1k list once I get them together. What's the best load out for a unit of 5? I'm going to get them a Grimwrath to hang out with. That will replace my sword masters as my mage guards while my shards and reavers run around.

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, TheNotebookGM said:

Hey quick question- got a pack of 5 Hearthguard/Aurics as a groomsman's gift and I want to throw them in my 1k list once I get them together. What's the best load out for a unit of 5? I'm going to get them a Grimwrath to hang out with. That will replace my sword masters as my mage guards while my shards and reavers run around.

IMO Hearthguard Bezerkers with poleaxe (or broadaxe if you really like that look better). 5 Aurics walking together with a grimwrath makes no sence for me. 

[Sarhantaï]

Hi everyone,

Firstable I want to apologize for my bad english (French baguette spotted)

Secondable, I want to discuss once again about the kinband bonus, it will be long (sorry for that) and I don't claim to be right. But everytime I read an opinion on it, it’s just an interpretation of the rule and in my point of vue it more than just that.

Just to be 100% clear here is the quote of the Legacy of the Lodge ability of the WARRIOR KINBAND : 

Quote

In the shooting phase, any Vulkite Berzerkers from a Warrior Kinband that are armed with Fyresteel Throwing Axes can throw them twice instead of once, as long as they are within 10" of the Runeson from the same Kinband.

The wording is a bit unclear on “any Vulkite Berzerkers”, does it mean models or unit. Sincerely with just this rule it’s impossible to determinate with certitude the meanings of the authors. We can find in the other battalion or unit’s rules both interpretation.

What I propose to you is not just an analysis of this sentence, but a thought of all the wordings of the battalions in the Fyreslayers BT, and maybe it will help us to understand the meaning here.

For start let’s look the Oathbound Guardians ability on the LORDS OF THE LODGE :

Quote

The Hearthguard Berzerkers in the Lords of the Lodge can be selected to pile in and attack twice in the combat phase, but only if they are within 6" of a HERO that is also part of the battalion the second time they are selected.

 Here the wording has exactly the same problem, we can’t say if it is model or unit within 6” that can pile in twice. No help for us, but the answer of the kinband’s rule will apply on this battalion too. 

 

Next we have the Berserk Kindred ability of the Kinband :

Quote

Vulkite Berzerkers from a Warrior Kinband move an additional D3 inches when they pile in if they are within 5" of another unit of Vulkite Berzerkers from the same Kinband (roll for each unit separately).

 Here again the same wording, but we have a start of interpretation with the “of another unit of”. It is not just “within 5” of a unit of Vulkite”, it’s “another unit” meaning that the first reference “Vulkite Berzerkers from a Warrior Kinband” can mean the full unit and not just models. But I admit even if it is in favor of the unit interpretation of the wording it’s once again unclear.

 

Last but not least we have the Bulwark of Molten Stone ability of the FORGE BRETHREN :

Quote

Pick either the Auric Hearthguard themselves or another unit within 15". Add 1 to the result of any save rolls for that unit until your next hero phase, or until it makes a charge move.

 Look at the wording “either the Auric Hearthguard themselves or another unit”.

This is clear they use the “Auric Hearthguard” to mean unit and not just models

In this ability there is no other possible interpretation they mean the auric unit or another unit.

 

So when they say the name of the unit with maj on the name we can consider that they mean unit, we weren’t sure if it means unit or model on the  LORDS OF THE LODGE or the WARRIOR KINBAND battalion, but in the FORGE BRETHREN it’s absolutely clear, it’s unit and not model. So when they wrote : Auric Hearthguard or Hearthguard Berzerkers or Vulkite Berzerkers in all battalions of the FS BT I guess they use the same wording for all Battalion and in all it mean unit and not models.

 

It’s my interpretation and I’m sure some of you will not agree with me, but it consider this wording problem in the totality of the battalion and not just for one sentences. So maybe it’s easier to understand the meanings of the authors.

 

Thank you for your patience and good thought ?

[Louzi]

warrior kinband only means models. confirmed on twitch.

I have another question: I think I played the army wrong, because of the rule "reroll before modifiers".

Example 1: Your unit of Vulkite Berserkers (axes= reroll all failed hits) gets -1 to hit debuff. That would mean that you ONLY reroll hit rolls of 1-3, not 4!!! Because the modifier isnt applied yet!

Example 2: The same unit is in reach of the Battlesmith (reroll all failed saves). If they are getting attacked with -1 rend, that would mean you ONLY reroll failed rolls of 1-4, not 5! Because the modifier isnt applied yet, too!

I didnt know it and think that I am not the only one

That makes fyreslayers worse.

[stratigo]

Eh, if people haven’t caught on, I’d not go about using the modifier and rerolls that way. 

[Blood&skulls]

2 hours ago, Louzi said:

warrior kinband only means models. confirmed on twitch.

I have another question: I think I played the army wrong, because of the rule "reroll before modifiers".

Example 1: Your unit of Vulkite Berserkers (axes= reroll all failed hits) gets -1 to hit debuff. That would mean that you ONLY reroll hit rolls of 1-3, not 4!!! Because the modifier isnt applied yet!

Example 2: The same unit is in reach of the Battlesmith (reroll all failed saves). If they are getting attacked with -1 rend, that would mean you ONLY reroll failed rolls of 1-4, not 5! Because the modifier isnt applied yet, too!

I didnt know it and think that I am not the only one

That makes fyreslayers worse.

That's correct. It makes rend much better, but that's the same for all the armies. 

 

7 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Eh, if people haven’t caught on, I’d not go about using the modifier and rerolls that way. 

That's cheating. The rules are clear about re-rolls and modifiers. 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

2 hours ago, Louzi said:

warrior kinband only means models. confirmed on twitch.

It wasn’t confirmed on twitch that was a ruling by the event, not GW. 

[Andreas]

2 hours ago, Louzi said:

warrior kinband only means models. confirmed on twitch.

I have another question: I think I played the army wrong, because of the rule "reroll before modifiers".

Example 1: Your unit of Vulkite Berserkers (axes= reroll all failed hits) gets -1 to hit debuff. That would mean that you ONLY reroll hit rolls of 1-3, not 4!!! Because the modifier isnt applied yet!

Example 2: The same unit is in reach of the Battlesmith (reroll all failed saves). If they are getting attacked with -1 rend, that would mean you ONLY reroll failed rolls of 1-4, not 5! Because the modifier isnt applied yet, too!

I didnt know it and think that I am not the only one

That makes fyreslayers worse.

Regarding the rerolls. If you reroll ones, reroll ones. If you reroll misses, reroll misses. I have never seen it played in another way. The FAQ was an answer to the question if I have reroll ones and have plus one to hit, do I reroll two? The answer was basically if you see a one on the dice you reroll it. I don't think it is more to it.

[Louzi]

34 minutes ago, Andreas said:

Regarding the rerolls. If you reroll ones, reroll ones. If you reroll misses, reroll misses. I have never seen it played in another way. The FAQ was an answer to the question if I have reroll ones and have plus one to hit, do I reroll two? The answer was basically if you see a one on the dice you reroll it. I don't think it is more to it.

first reroll then add modifiers. Pretty easy, but I played it wrong, too. Your example just confirms the rule...

[Louzi]

53 minutes ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

It wasn’t confirmed on twitch that was a ruling by the event, not GW. 

they explained the battalion on stream...

[Andreas]

11 minutes ago, Louzi said:

first reroll then add modifiers. Pretty easy, but I played it wrong, too. Your example just confirms the rule...

Yes, then same with saves. If you fail the save reroll you roll again, very intuitive.

I have never seen anyone play it any other way it that this discussion with anyone I have played with since it is very intuitive. But I have seen a lot of topics on TGA trying to convince people that the should play it in some other way because of reasons. So I just read your post like now your trying to complicate things. ?

[Louzi]

I am not. If anyone tells me it is confirmed another way, I would appreciate it. But for now I'll play it like that, because otherwise I am not sure I am cheating my opponent...