Let's chat Fyreslayers

[Andreas]

51 minutes ago, The ape said:

So, add a smiter - put him on a magmadroth? Or leave him on foot?

Both! ☺️

But start with one of foot so you can try out tunneling a unit.

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

With the tunnelling of auric, hoe do you go about protecting them?

i find they just get deleted the turn after they drop as they're so close to the enemy i.e. 15"

[Veterannoob]

3 hours ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

With the tunnelling of auric, hoe do you go about protecting them?

i find they just get deleted the turn after they drop as they're so close to the enemy i.e. 15"

Agreed! The aurics with no hair save just get deleted, so bear in mind. Good luck, brother!!  

 

[Andreas]

6 hours ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

With the tunnelling of auric, hoe do you go about protecting them?

i find they just get deleted the turn after they drop as they're so close to the enemy i.e. 15"

I never drop them without a screen. I usually drop them where I can kill/cripple what I am targeting or it's a really good trade off. 

They very seldom die when I play (mainly tournament games) but when they do I usually lose the game so using them right which is down to placement is really important.

I havent played fyreslayers that much after the points change but I had more wins than losses before the points change (e.i. with 1500pt list in a 2000pt game) using the same tactics.

But the meta have changed since then so I don't know how well it works now.  But I am going to a bigger tournament in 4 weeks bringing a auric alpha strike list, I can report back how it worked.

[James Ramsay]

Here is a copy paste from the slayer facebook group I made regarding big units of aurics:

I've tried 30 aurics and while they are good I struggle to keep them alive after they drop as they are very unwieldly. They do a lot of damage and on paper are great but not convinced yet. 

Think with star drakes being a thing you need some reliable mortal output, only the hearthguard berserkers do that. A drake will ruin your day, at least we can rend out a treeman ancient now sometimes! 

If you take them.. then then the lodge and pile in command ability come almost auto include IMO 

So :

Father ignore BS
Runemaster
Battlesmith
30 vulkites
30 vulkites
30 vulkites
30 hearthguard berserkers

That's 1800. Then I had 2 choices, either runesmiter on magmadroth who I love (reroll wound is ace as mentioned above). 5 drops. 

Or you can take the runeson and warrior kinband, but that costs you the reroll to wound bubble. I like the synergy of the d3 consolidate and the runefather command ability plus double shot is still good. That's a 2 drop list.

The forge brethren list is good as well +1 save is great on all the vulkites (a lot of uk events are not allowing any stacking of any sort now) but I still feel mortals are a big loss - 90 vulkites backed up by + armour is solid though. 

[Veterannoob]

5 hours ago, James Ramsay said:

Here is a copy paste from the slayer facebook group I made regarding big units of aurics:

I've tried 30 aurics and while they are good I struggle to keep them alive after they drop as they are very unwieldly. They do a lot of damage and on paper are great but not convinced yet. 

Think with star drakes being a thing you need some reliable mortal output, only the hearthguard berserkers do that. A drake will ruin your day, at least we can rend out a treeman ancient now sometimes! 

If you take them.. then then the lodge and pile in command ability come almost auto include IMO 

So :

Father ignore BS
Runemaster
Battlesmith
30 vulkites
30 vulkites
30 vulkites
30 hearthguard berserkers

That's 1800. Then I had 2 choices, either runesmiter on magmadroth who I love (reroll wound is ace as mentioned above). 5 drops. 

Or you can take the runeson and warrior kinband, but that costs you the reroll to wound bubble. I like the synergy of the d3 consolidate and the runefather command ability plus double shot is still good. That's a 2 drop list.

The forge brethren list is good as well +1 save is great on all the vulkites (a lot of uk events are not allowing any stacking of any sort now) but I still feel mortals are a big loss - 90 vulkites backed up by + armour is solid though. 

Smiter on Magmabomb sounds nice but you could also do master and Lords of Lodge to bring you to 1970 but that beefy unit of hearthguard all the suddens activates twice in combat phase and dishes out more mortal wounds  

[James Ramsay]

Yeah I do have lodge, it's well worth it. It's the last 200 that I have to decide on.

[Veterannoob]

26 minutes ago, James Ramsay said:

Yeah I do have lodge, it's well worth it. It's the last 200 that I have to decide on.

oh, sorry, didn't see it above. Runesmiter on Magmabomb it is then?  

 

[Andreas]

12 hours ago, James Ramsay said:

Here is a copy paste from the slayer facebook group I made regarding big units of aurics:

I've tried 30 aurics and while they are good I struggle to keep them alive after they drop as they are very unwieldly. They do a lot of damage and on paper are great but not convinced yet. 

Think with star drakes being a thing you need some reliable mortal output, only the hearthguard berserkers do that. A drake will ruin your day, at least we can rend out a treeman ancient now sometimes! 

If you take them.. then then the lodge and pile in command ability come almost auto include IMO 

So :

Father ignore BS
Runemaster
Battlesmith
30 vulkites
30 vulkites
30 vulkites
30 hearthguard berserkers

That's 1800. Then I had 2 choices, either runesmiter on magmadroth who I love (reroll wound is ace as mentioned above). 5 drops. 

Or you can take the runeson and warrior kinband, but that costs you the reroll to wound bubble. I like the synergy of the d3 consolidate and the runefather command ability plus double shot is still good. That's a 2 drop list.

The forge brethren list is good as well +1 save is great on all the vulkites (a lot of uk events are not allowing any stacking of any sort now) but I still feel mortals are a big loss - 90 vulkites backed up by + armour is solid though. 

I do think that the magmasmiter is an auto include in most cases but in your list another options could be 6 skywardens to get some speed (and long range shooting) since you don't tunnel any units.

[PessJerk]

Hey guys, anticipating starting fyreslayers in the next week or so. Where should i start? ive been playing stormcast for the last 2 yrs.

[Louzi]

Get a start collecting, 2 boxes of vulkites, battlesmith and hearthguard berserkers.

Your starting army would be:

Runefather on magma

Runeson

Runesmiter

Battlesmith

30 vulkites (start with double axe)

5 hb

It is not too expensive, an ok first setup and you can play your first 1000 points with it.

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Louzi said:

Get a start collecting, 2 boxes of vulkites, battlesmith and hearthguard berserkers.

Your starting army would be:

Runefather on magma

Runeson

Runesmiter

Battlesmith

30 vulkites (start with double axe)

5 hb

It is not too expensive, an ok first setup and you can play your first 1000 points with it.

If you was 2 start with a 2k list what would you suggest? I to am starting fyreslayers. I purchased a whole bunch yesterday. 

Thanks

[Louzi]

I would not plan 2000 points, if you have no experience with fyreslayers.

Ofc i could post a list that i want to play, but it is maybe not your playstyle.

You cant go wrong with the start collecting, at least 30 vulkites, battlesmith und grimwrath. Then it is up to you, if you go 30 hearthguard berserkers, aurics or more vulkites. But make the 1000 points first

[Tom]

Ok thank you. 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

This a copy and paste of my post in the Fyreslayers FB group. I thought I would post here too as many aren't on that group and it's a pretty common question.

WHICH IS THE BEST WEAPON OPTION?

TLDR:

Vulkites Pick and Shield: shock damage against high save targets then anvil and grind. 
Vulkites Dual axes: Good all round, better against low save targets. 
Hearthguard Poleaxes: best against high armour
Hearthguard Broadaxe: good all round, excellent when buffed. 

FULL POST

To add on to my post yesterday about weapon options, below are the exact mathematical averages for damage against different saves and a second average with a re-roll to wound. 

Some pertinent points to note:

• Vulkites with Shield and Pick are notably better against targets with a save of 3+ or lower on the first round of combat after that they are equal or worse. 
• Vulkites with Dual axes are better against lower save targets of 5+ or more. After the first round they will out damage pick and shield. 
• Both weapon options are about even against 4+ save targets. 
• Both weapon options for vulkites vs all targets see a fairly even benefit when having re rolls to wound. 

• Hearthguard with Polaxes are better against targets with a save of 4+ or lower
• Hearthguard with Broadaxes are better against targets with a save of 5+ or higher
• Hearthguard with Broadaxes see a much better benefit when having re rolls to wound. This will make them better than poleaxes against 4+ save targets. 

Vulkite Berserkers Pick and Shield
Damage vs 2+ = 0.37 RRTW 0.42
Damage vs 3+ = 0.42 RRTW 0.55
Damage vs 4+ = 0.50 RRTW 0.67
Damage vs 5+ = 0.59 RRTW 0.80
Damage vs 6+ = 0.67 RRTW 0.92

Vulkite Berserkers Dual Axes
Damage vs 2+ = 0.17 RRTW 0.22
Damage vs 3+ = 0.34 RRTW 0.45
Damage vs 4+ = 0.50 RRTW 0.67
Damage vs 5+ = 0.67 RRTW 0.89
Damage vs 6+ = 0.84 RRTW 1.11

Hearthguard Berserkers Poleaxe
Damage vs 2+ = 0.51 RRTW 0.53
Damage vs 3+ = 0.56 RRTW 0.62
Damage vs 4+ = 0.62 RRTW 0.70
Damage vs 5+ = 0.67 RRTW 0.79
Damage vs 6+ = 0.73 RRTW 0.87

Hearthguard Berserkers Broadaxe
Damage vs 2+ = 0.30 RRTW 0.40
Damage vs 3+ = 0.45 RRTW 0.60
Damage vs 4+ = 0.60 RRTW 0.80
Damage vs 5+ = 0.75 RRTW 0.99
Damage vs 6+ = 0.90 RRTW 1.19

Disclaimer: this information is based on raw math only and not the unique tactical situations that you might encounter in your games. There's every chance that each unit will be individually better than shown here depending on the circumstance.

[Ruudy]

Hey  Guys!

This wekeend i played my first game with Fyreslayers after GH2017 release.

I played full warrior kindband with a Battlesmith, Smiter and 30 HB against Stormcast

My oponent had studied our faction and he deploy 2 units of Hunters & Lord-Aquilor with 10 Raptors on my back on the first turn, trying to focus my MagmaSon, fortunately he survived with 3 wounds and i was really close in combat to charge him on many fronts.

The rest of the game become melee and my MagmaSon died in his next turn, that makes my vulkites average of dead really high with battleshock tests.

In three turns the game was over and i obtained a minor victory, but it was really really close game and i suffered a lot after MagmaSon dead.

It was a friendly battle to try and learn things about our armies, but i can not forget the list that ends in third place previous weeks, so at the time i tried my own list, was trying to understand the idea behind that list.

My conclusion is that now is really fun play Fyreslayers, faction artefacts and runes makes us make sense as army, but i feel we are so dependant of some of the bubbles we have. I won´t talk about the time needed to move 120 miniatures in movement phase, hhehe, ¿can someone give me ideas to make it eaiser? At least until i reach melee combat.

As an horde army, most of us will probably play 90 vulkis with a MagmaSon in a Kindband. The "no battleshock checks" command trait, the double ranged axes and that awesome charge with 3 dices, repeating one, makes us terrible.

I feel that on my next list i should try to spread those core bubbles on different heroes, so next time ill probably go with 2 MagmaSons, or one MagmaSon and one Son on foot. One will be the general and the other the kindband member, ¿What do you think about?

Adding the MagmaFather (as our comrade did on that tournament list) will probably ensure we dont face the battleshocks, but im not sure it really deserves those points, becuase it basic makes our list a vulkites list and ill like to have some points out of the core to try different approaches. ¿What do you think about the extra father (Magma or not) with the 2 Sons?

Ill appreciate your feedback and comments guys! Thank you!

PD: Sorry to do not include photos but we still collecting our armies and we use some proxies and unpainted models.

[PessJerk]

15 hours ago, Louzi said:

Get a start collecting, 2 boxes of vulkites, battlesmith and hearthguard berserkers.

Your starting army would be:

Runefather on magma

Runeson

Runesmiter

Battlesmith

30 vulkites (start with double axe)

5 hb

It is not too expensive, an ok first setup and you can play your first 1000 points with it.

is it worth getting 2 start collecting boxes? especially considering its probably the cheapest way to get the magmadroths?

[Andreas]

31 minutes ago, PessJerk said:

is it worth getting 2 start collecting boxes? especially considering its probably the cheapest way to get the magmadroths?

Well at some point you probably want three magmadroths. That's because you probably want one runesmiter on magmadroth and two runesmiters to tunnel units.

Then maybe you want a runeson on magmadroth to try the warrior kinband and why not a father on magmadroth in larger games.

So it's all about when you want to buy them. I would/did build them in this order:

1) Runeson on Magmadroth

2) Runesmiter on Magmadroth

3) Runefather on Magmadroth

I think maybe this list is a good start for 1000pt

Auric Runeson on Magmadroth (240)
Auric Runesmiter (80)
Battlesmith (80)
20 x Vulkite Berzerkers (240)
20 x Vulkite Berzerkers (240)
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (120) or 5 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (100)

[Andreas]

Another topic. This is the list I am going to try at the next tournament.

Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth, General, Exemplar of the Ancestors, Ash-plume Sigil    200
Battlesmith    80
Auric Runesmiter    80
Auric Runesmiter    80
30    Vulkite Berserkers    330
30    Vulkite Berserkers    330
10    Vulkite Berserkers    120
30    Auric Hearthguard    480
9    Skywardens    300

Maybe not that durable for a fyreslayer list. But I will tunnel 970pt and I have 9 Skywardens and a magmadroth so I think it will quite fast and hard hitting with the 30 aurics if I play them right.

The main tactics is to run up with the vulkites in the middle as anvils and try to break one flank with the aurics (pop up behind the vulkites).

The Skywardens are mainly for some long range shooting and late game objective captures with 3×grapnels.

[Louzi]

10 hours ago, PessJerk said:

is it worth getting 2 start collecting boxes? especially considering its probably the cheapest way to get the magmadroths?

In my opinion not for the first 1000 points. I would get another one for 2000 points.

[Louzi]

9 hours ago, Andreas said:

Another topic. This is the list I am going to try at the next tournament.

Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth, General, Exemplar of the Ancestors, Ash-plume Sigil    200
Battlesmith    80
Auric Runesmiter    80
Auric Runesmiter    80
30    Vulkite Berserkers    330
30    Vulkite Berserkers    330
10    Vulkite Berserkers    120
30    Auric Hearthguard    480
9    Skywardens    300

Maybe not that durable for a fyreslayer list. But I will tunnel 970pt and I have 9 Skywardens and a magmadroth so I think it will quite fast and hard hitting with the 30 aurics if I play them right.

The main tactics is to run up with the vulkites in the middle as anvils and try to break one flank with the aurics (pop up behind the vulkites).

The Skywardens are mainly for some long range shooting and late game objective captures with 3×grapnels.

I think skywardens are rly rly good allies for us. But I dont like the lack of hb (our best unit in gh2) and the smiter as general isnt a good choice either.

[Andreas]

3 hours ago, Louzi said:

I think skywardens are rly rly good allies for us. But I dont like the lack of hb (our best unit in gh2) and the smiter as general isnt a good choice either.

I am interested why you think HB is better in GH2 compared to after the points decrease. They are not bad I just think vulkites are a little bit more efficient per point or att least equal and also battleline.

I agree with you regarding the hero choice but I really need the heroes I have now so it's hard to fit and not make the list less efficient. I could go for 6 skywardens and add for example the Runefather.

The argument against the Runefather is that I need IP on the skywardens anyway (or on the aurics in case they snipe the general). And the list is in practice already very strong in the hero mission due to the tunneling aurics and skywardens that can shoot off the opponents heroes. Havn't lost that mission yet pre GH2 with simular lists. And a friend played a simular list (with my army) and beat a sylvaneth "net"-list at 6-nations (team tournament) in the hero mission pre GH2. It was a very close game but it's a strong scenario for sylvaneth.

 

[Louzi]

I think the list is strong, but could be stronger.

The point decrease for hb and ah is huge. But the hb benefit much more from our battle trait.

30 ah are scary, but they benfit at least from the new battle trait and it might be overkill in most cases.

I think 30 hb, 30 vulkites is the way to go. Another 10 vulkites for objective holding and maybe 2 magmadroths. If you want to play ah, i wouldnt go with more than 15. Either for forge brethren or for hero sniping with a runesmiter.

[Andreas]

I think both lists are viable. I will try to take some pictures and take some notes from the tournament games and post them and we can discuss strengh and weaknesses with the 30 aurics -list and how to play them and how to not play them ?. 

Edit: And I agree that you don't need the runes for the aurics, no synergi with them except shooting rune and double wound rune.

[Amradiel]

19 hours ago, PessJerk said:

is it worth getting 2 start collecting boxes? especially considering its probably the cheapest way to get the magmadroths?

I would say yes