Nico Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Quote Omg someone played tomb king on chariot? he isnt Bad 3+ save and 6 atacks with rending -1 and 1d3 dmg and 8 of his horses if he chargue. And he is pretty fast, I dont think he need stay on any worst spot, he is good, for the same price you have the Lord of chaos on jugger who is worst than the tomb king on chariot, but a lot of ppl play it. Ans if he die do d3 mortal wounds. He's just bad compared to the other Tomb King heroes - there is never a good reason to take him - regular Tomb King, Royal Warsphinx and obviously Settra will always be better choices (including in combination). On a positive note Vlad is a massive bargain at 120 points - 5/6 of the time, he's a 10 wound hero and wizard who hits hard. Command ability is also potentially interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 15 minutes ago, Nico said: I hadn't noticed the +1 damage on the charge - that is quite nice. On the other hand Skeleton Horsemen can run and charge. I thought that they were near identical bar the save vs the run and charge. So quick to condemn a unit you hadn't fully checked the profile of. I do think Skeleton Horsemen are also very good, by the way. My Black Knights tend to get a 24" Flying move though, so I don't need to Run + Charge very often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share Posted November 12, 2016 Ok, black knights having so devoted fans do not deserve to be on the list of infamous. Black knights out, TK on chariot swapped places with Konrad the mad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sej Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I almost always include konrad i love his buff to my death wizards. The black coach is terible and its such a shame as its a model i love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Konrad only buffs Necromancers - not any Death Wizard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sej Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Cheers i sometimes get key words muddled up when im talking I use him with heinrich and a necromancer, heinrich has the key word Necromancer. Litch priests also have the Necromancer key word too. not used one yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I despise black knight for them being a so call elite unit but performing less than desirable than skeleton, but I often play legion of death formation, I need to include them often. the more I play, the more they failed me... until one day I was so disappointed with them, I just sent to off as chaff, and they perform miracle, they snipe an objective and hold off long enough to delay my opponent. Then I have find them their place in the army. They are now the Chaffer and Obj stealer in my list, often operate solo and snipe round the corner. i like black coach as a model, hence shall not comment about its inability to perform. cairn Whait isn't performing well as expected, he did wonders in WHFB. konrad seem pretty meh comparing him to his bloodline. zombies when played right are surprisingly irritating to get rid of, but I don't like the model now. don't dabble with FEC, but I felt FEC terroghiest is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHHaunts Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 On 10/11/2016 at 3:48 PM, Nico said: Fellbats are pretty terrible also. Cairn Wraiths are terrible. The Tomb King on the Chariot is terrible. Cairn wraiths arent so bad. Not great in matched play due to them taking up hero slots however for only 60 points or none in open play they do a great job as pop up tarpits and distractions. definitely at the bottom of the list if on at all. Tomb king archers are pretty naff though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Yeah, shame about Skeleton Archers being so woeful. Only ranged we really get in the game though. I tend to use Cairn Wraiths as a point filler to spread Deathless and support a unit, sometimes summon them in to help shore up a flank a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Cairn wraiths are great in three places of power - a summonable hero who doesn't need to stay within your army building restrictions. Get hold of a point with your units and then just pop out a cairn wraith the claim it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 You know I would say in matched play, Nagash has to be up there? He's 900 points for a hero who can only really cast 5 maybe 6 spells each turn. Yes he is a beast but he can be focussed down and he's only one unit so can't be everywhere on the board. 900 points gets you two vlozd who can cover the board more effectively. Or a two units of six crypt horrors and a courtier. With change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 I'd say Nagash starts to get decent once you hit 3000pts or more. His command ability scales up for large games like nothing else in death, and the more units you have on the board, the easier it is to get his full casting capacity to use (especially all the TK stuff). I wouldn't run him in less than 3000, though. The problem with wraiths, as summonable heroes, is that you aren't going to set aside the reinforcement points unless you are playing a summon-based army, which is pretty rare. Players don't generally go all the way up the the army-building restrictions on leaders anyway, unless they know in advance that they will be playing three places of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deynon Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 4 hours ago, Squirrelmaster said: I'd say Nagash starts to get decent once you hit 3000pts or more. His command ability scales up for large games like nothing else in death, and the more units you have on the board, the easier it is to get his full casting capacity to use (especially all the TK stuff). I wouldn't run him in less than 3000, though. The problem with wraiths, as summonable heroes, is that you aren't going to set aside the reinforcement points unless you are playing a summon-based army, which is pretty rare. Players don't generally go all the way up the the army-building restrictions on leaders anyway, unless they know in advance that they will be playing three places of power. i'm that rare^^ for me summoning is an essential, even if only a unit. Anyway you don't have to are about alliaence except being, by FAQ, in the same GA so summoning is also a way to esape from alliance limitations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xarnax Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I have played about 30 games with the black knights now, and they are definitely one of the weakest units in my army. But the one unit that just underperforms in almost every game is the banshee. She obviously isn't straight up bad in theory, but the since the mean bravery stat of all units in the game is about 7-8, she just becomes incredibly unreliable (especially at 10" range). She has great potential, but after alot of games (also about 30), her performance in general is just horrible I probably wouldn't put her on the list for the worst model, but she is very close. Only think that makes me bring her so often is the fact that she is a hero, which buffs my skeletons. So for me she basically works as an 80 point +1 tohit buff with the occational 10" killshot. Same thing goes for the cairn wraith though. He has some damage potential, and he works as a skeleton buff. And since he is only 60 points in GH, I would actually put him above the banshee in usefulness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 The Banshee is better if paired with a Catapult - it does stun me that Death don't have any other bravery debuffs (I can remember fear and terror across the whole army). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Catapult is the only non current related model that actually buff them. Which is kinda sad. And way too many faction with basic bravery 7 onwards. None the less, banshee had been performing quite the miracle for me in various battle. zombies are pretty bad at match play now. Their most unique ability being just written off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 On 11/20/2016 at 7:24 PM, Hans said: Catapult is the only non current related model that actually buff them. Which is kinda sad. And way too many faction with basic bravery 7 onwards. None the less, banshee had been performing quite the miracle for me in various battle. zombies are pretty bad at match play now. Their most unique ability being just written off? Can you explain what you mean? In big groups they hit and wound on 3's, and have a potential for a 5+ ward save. They are constantly adding models to the unit, and can be devastating when buffed by characters. How are they "bad in matched play"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 28, 2016 Share Posted November 28, 2016 Constantly adding only if they kill anything, which drops off as they die. You are assuming that there's enough of them to get 3+ to hit and Wound. Not to mention that a single attack each at 3s to Hit and Wound is merely okay in the grand scheme of things. In general Skeleton Warriors are just that little bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorPenguin Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 2 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said: Constantly adding only if they kill anything, which drops off as they die. You are assuming that there's enough of them to get 3+ to hit and Wound. Not to mention that a single attack each at 3s to Hit and Wound is merely okay in the grand scheme of things. In general Skeleton Warriors are just that little bit better. They get models back in the hero phase like skeletons as well. I think they just suffer a bit from being in rules limbo at the moment, if they are able to merge above their starting unit size then they are pretty decent on paper - they suffer from what all these large units suffer from though, if you ever buff them up to hitting on threes the unit is never getting 30 3+ 3+ attacks because you just can't get that many models into base contact. Which is why skellies are a bit better on the whole with the spears and the reach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Yeah, that too, plus Skellies get more access to synergy via Tomb Kings and the Wight King. Zombies only really get the Corpse Cart, which is way less effective than it used to be for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelmaster Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 On the other hand, zombies are the cheapest way to fill your minimum battleline, and let you merge all your battleline into one moderately effective block instead of multiple separate units. A block of 40 skeletons is more effective than 40 zombies, but 40 zombies can fill 4 batteline slots, the skeletons only fill 1. I think there's a lot of good reasons to field zombies already, if they got stronger then there wouldn't be enough reason to take skeletons. (FWIW, I think zombies should be able to exceed the maximum unit size by merging, at least that's how I read the rules). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 Quote They get models back in the hero phase like skeletons as well. I think they just suffer a bit from being in rules limbo at the moment, if they are able to merge above their starting unit size then they are pretty decent on paper - they suffer from what all these large units suffer from though, if you ever buff them up to hitting on threes the unit is never getting 30 3+ 3+ attacks because you just can't get that many models into base contact. They are able to do so unless the TO rules that they cannot do (which might happen). Either ask them in advance or just don't rely on it too heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid_Nine Posted November 29, 2016 Share Posted November 29, 2016 You know what? I think the Vamp lord on zombie dragon is too weak for his points. Maybe I shouldn't use the sword, maybe it's just bad dice rolls, maybe I just over extend him, but he always seemed to fail me. Last time I played him he got punked by skarbrand in a single turn, and he never puts out enough attacks to be useful. his spell/ warlord ability is kinda weak compared to the regular vamp lord. Plus, with manfred just being 20 points more expensive and nefaratta being the same amount of points. I don't know if it's completely worth it to bring him aside from fluff stuff. heck, the vamp lord on abyssal terror is both half the points and only 4 wounds less than the zombie dragon version, while not being a monster. Plus, his spell as a buff is just bonkers with it's double movement buff. Imagine that on some blood knights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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