MikeGreen Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 Order, dwarf even if he had 10 move he would still be a loser! How about those differentiation on crypt and tomb shields? Is it still valid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 Quote Black knights are great. Skeleton Horsemen (just use the same models) are inherent Battleline and Black Knights are not - that's massive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 10, 2016 Share Posted November 10, 2016 I take Skeleton Warriors anyway, so Battleline requirements are irrelevant to me tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 Is this VC compendium still valid? If it is Konrad always kills his first target? (being OP). Or is his ability limited to once per turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Quote Is this VC compendium still valid? If it is Konrad always kills his first target? (being OP). Or is his ability limited to once per turn? It is limited to once per turn, just like the Red Fury command trait. While the wording doesn't say it's once only, it also doesn't say that it chains. In those circumstances assuming that the ability only works once is the natural reading of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Skeleton Horsemen are 20 points cheaper and battleline. Black Knights certainly have their uses, it's just the fact that you pay extra for some more killing power (that you don't have much use for, because let's face it, Black Knights are never going to kill anything big and threatening, just tarpit it), and you lose out on battleline. The last one is the big decider in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Fell bats arent the best unit in the game but they serve a purpose as a FAST unit (14"!) flying cheap unit that can harass enemy units and do some damage as well. Same with hexwraiths they arent the most destructive units out there, but they serve a purpose and do that job well. I saw someone mention vargheists.. like wtf are you talking about? they ****** rock! 160 points for 12 wounds that can fly 12" and dish out 10 attacks on 3/3/-1/2?? lol if that sucks then GA Death should be considered unplayable. Someone wants to put Konrad on this list...a 20 year old model with rules almost as old.. ok. I mean Death hasnt gotten a lot of love save for FEC so just relax and chill until we get some battletomes. This list of worst units is the worst thread I have seen on TGS forums to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 On 11/11/2016 at 8:30 AM, Nico said: It is limited to once per turn, just like the Red Fury command trait. While the wording doesn't say it's once only, it also doesn't say that it chains. In those circumstances assuming that the ability only works once is the natural reading of it. What a shame... But otherwise Konrad would be an autoinclude. Nobody proposed changes so this is the final list in order from the worst to bad . I'm not saying do not buy models on the list under any circumstances- but you better think twice 1. Black Coach 2. Fellbats 3. Bone Giant 4. Konrad von Carstein 5. Tomb King on chariot 6. Cairn Wraiths They have started "the list of c.rap" for Chaos alliance ; I encourage you to visit and contribute ( ofc if you have enough knowledge/experience ) http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/5188-worst-units-in-chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Untimention Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Ushabti are absolute beasts! The only model I'd add to the list is a Warsphinx for the points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 For me he does not look that bad. Low damage but plenty of attacks. If somebody seconds you in that, he can be added. But it is rather crucial not to expand the list too much, so that it includes only bad units "to avoid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oppenheimer Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I find skeletal horse archers to be underwhelming. I keep wanting to field them but then they do nothing. I agree with poor black coach and fell bats. I disagree with zombies and skeletons. In large numbers they are both great. Konrad is okay without rule of 1 then his red fury can keep going and going forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payce Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 22 hours ago, CoffeeGrunt said: IMO it's pretty stifling to newcomers to be presented with a list of models the internet has decided aren't good, but then it's your thread so fair dues. Most important post of the thread. For what it's worth, I don't think Wraiths or Black Knights belong on this list any more than Banshees or Blood Knights. Black Coach is flat out bad, most other units have their uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 It could be stifling - alternatively it could equally be seen as advice for newcomers. It's not like we're saying play this particular Netlist - everything else sucks. A list of best units might be more positive and constructive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 Best units is also extremely useful for newbies. but I'm afraid you would find it much more stifling, promoting few units for everybody. Exploiting synergies between flesh eaters and excluding deathrattle and so on. Anyway creme de last creme thread should appear in the near future. I thought about banshees before. But blood knights? Do they really belong among fellbats and konrad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payce Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Nico said: It could be stifling - alternatively it could equally be seen as advice for newcomers. It's not like we're saying play this particular Netlist - everything else sucks. A list of best units might be more positive and constructive Absolutely, but when a new player comes in this thread to see that the cavalry he just got in his Start Collecting-box "is one of the seven worst units in the army" (which I still think it's not), that's hardly advice. If anything, it serves to marginalise the variety and spectrum of armies out there, as more and more people that are looking for advice automatically weed out anything the internet says is bad. Fully agree on the list of best units, though! Personally (Morghast and Mourngul aside), I find summoned Spirit Hosts, Grave Guard with great weapons, the Mortis Engine and Vargheists to be really good value for points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 The Black Knights are down to a technicality - the exact same models can be used as Skeleton Horsemen which are better - TK are spoiled for choice on Battleline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 I'd add that the Black Knights can be built as Hexwraiths which seem more useful - rend immunity and rend on cavalry is a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payce Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 @Nico Provided your local meta or T.O. allows compendium units, but that another discussion entirely. My point is, the existence of one unit does not necessarily make another one of the worst in the whole army because of a technicality. The Black Knights do what they do regardless of Skeletal Horsemen. Sure, saving twenty points and gaining battleline is a big plus, but it's a big plus to something that already has some upside. That makes the other unit have more upside, not the one in question instantly suck. Half full, half empty, etc. @MikeGreen Regarding Blood Knights, my point was rather that they belong as much on this list as Black Knights do. Points for points, you get ten Black Knights for five Blood Knights - yes, they have a wound more and heal, but I still don't find them to be even remotely close to twice as good. Which begs the question, why shouldn't you take ten Black Knights to gain a superior tactical disposition at the cost of some survival and a marginal damage upgrade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, Nico said: I'd add that the Black Knights can be built as Hexwraiths which seem more useful - rend immunity and rend on cavalry is a big deal. It depends on what your facing black knights are strong against none rend armies and hex wraiths do well against high rend armies relatively. I wouldn't use either by just having them, and only ever summon them as a wall to punish opponents for letting me go first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGreen Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 I also prefer black knights esthetically. So it is even more important for them to be on the list, that sb do not glue them accidentally. Or if they do just use them as horsemen, cheaper and battleline. I still think about building my other 5 as black knights-horsemen wannabe. So please start a new thread with best units. I must go through warscrolls carefully to find what I'll support as the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 For the best units, Settra and Necropolis Knights for spots 1 & 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorfate Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Fellbats are very fast chaff units that can roadblock, warmachine hunt and take out the pressure from your more important units by becoming closer to models that can hit Blood Knights for example. And they are among the very few soulblight units. But Black coach has no use to talk about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoffeeGrunt Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 People still declaring Skeleton Horsemen > Black Knights as an absolute. Sorry man, I'm not fussed about having Cavalry as Battleline so that's irrelevant to me, and the Black Knights bring +1Sv and +1Dam on the Charge to the party. What do Skeleton Horsemen ever achieve? They're more fragile and not cheap enough to get twice the attacks in on the charge vs Black Knights to compensate for the Dam 1 vs Dam 2. They're otherwise identical. This is what I'm talking about when people start declaring that certain units are worthless. I think the only one we've agreed on is the Black Coach, but other than that we get people start handing down opinions from on-high that certain units are worthless, when they aren't. IN certain strategies, they work. It's this internet hivemind that ruined 40K by making every army into Netlist Du Jour with declarations of certain units being worthless. (I applaud the guy who won a major tournament with Genestealers and Lictors, by the way, for farting in the general direction of internet "wisdom.") I'm just noting that it's a pretty negative stance to have that prompts players, especially newcomers, to go down a certain strategic route and think they have to abandon others to win. How does that enrich the list variety Death can bring? How does that help us think up new ways to play and improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nico Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 I hadn't noticed the +1 damage on the charge - that is quite nice. On the other hand Skeleton Horsemen can run and charge. I thought that they were near identical bar the save vs the run and charge. A thread like this can prompt useful combos or lists about how said apparently bad unit has some unnoticed advantage or synergy. Tomb Swarms are a poor cousin of Tomb Scorpions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iradekhorne Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Omg someone played tomb king on chariot? he isnt Bad 3+ save and 6 atacks with rending -1 and 1d3 dmg and 8 of his horses if he chargue. And he is pretty fast, I dont think he need stay on any worst spot, he is good, for the same price you have the Lord of chaos on jugger who is worst than the tomb king on chariot, but a lot of ppl play it. Ans if he die do d3 mortal wounds. For me, the worst unit on death alliance is the black coach for far. Anyway when GW rebuild the vampires propably this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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