Let's chat Skaven tactics

[Mayple]

9 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Sorry for going off topic on the 40k talk but do keep in mind AM conscripts took a massive nerf bat due to the amount of power gaming abuse people did in the beginning of their new edition. Back then you could take massive units of 50 that vomited laser fire to an absurd degree and had commissars making them immune to battleshock tests. They now limited them to a max of 30 models now, no longer can become auto immune to battleshocks, and are the same exact point cost per model as normal guardsmen so they're not all that useful now other than vehicle bubble chaff. GW balancing as usual!

 

Back onto the topic of unending rat hordes!

To continue slightly off-topic but to give full context: I was thinking of doing Valhallan conscripts, with the pew pew pistol relic that works like the Commisars used to. As far as I've been able to gather, at least. I don't expect it to be gamebreaking, but I do expect it to be FUN  (Coincidentally, this is how I got the "Commisar Rat" Idea (1 Grey Seer and as many clanrats as you can cram onto a table) 

Okay! Back to the rats! 

[Goodapollo4]

Page 13! The Great Horned Rat will be pleased!

[tolstedt]

I don't find that my pestilens games with 140 rats last any longer than games with other armies.

Use movement trays.

In early turns, move the front rank up, and consolidate the rest during opponent's turn to save time.  Moving 200 rats individually is not going to work!  You need shortcuts like this. 

Learn when loose movement like this is okay, and when precision is required. 

As you get closer to charge range where ranges matter for number of attacks, communicate to the opponent that the rats are "squished together" for maximum attacks.

I always ask the opponent if it is okay that I am doing something to save time.  If they say no, I will move properly.  This way they do not feel cheated.

If you are in doubt while repositioning models off of the trays for a charge or a pile in, just take an inch off the movement to be fair!  

And, critically, for any army, when near objectives or within range of enemies for pile-ins, spells, shooting, anything, always announce your intention, and if need be, opponent can double measure.  "I want these guys to be outside of 3 but within 6 of the objective, does that look good to you?"  "Yep, all good from my eye."

[tolstedt]

10 hours ago, Num said:

I hear you... Even I as a Skaven player am suffering from it, now that my local shop has decided to use hilly terrains with plenty of obstacles, thereby rendering my movement trays useless

I try to avoid hills in general 28mm or larger wargames.

[tolstedt]

9 hours ago, Mayple said:

That being said, smart and efficient movement of a big quantity of models is an aquired skill, and certain movement trays (several smaller ones are better than one big)

I agree.  I use 10 mans primarily.

 

7 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I won about 4 games with a list consisting of a Grey seer 260clanrats 40giant rats 80Plague monks,

 

Yeah buddy.  I'm thinking 200 plague rats, 3 plague priest, 1 furnace, with a great unclean one as an ally (with the bell for +3").

I gave up on seraphon because all my lists turned into 120+ skinks as well.  Just too good.  Can't handle any more hordes atm.

[Nikobot]

@ tolstedt How’s your recent battles going with pestilens?

[hughwyeth]

I'm entering a doubles with a skaven-playing mate. He's be playing 1,000pts of Skryre- 2x5 acolytes battleline and then weapons teams, stormfiends, arch warlock. I'm thinking of fielding 2x20 clan rats, 1x20 stormvermin, Warpgnaw Verminlord and Grey Seer. The Warpgnaw will deep strike with the stormvermin, the clan rats will defend the skryre shooting units, and the grey seer will half any cowardly running rats.

I know this list is not competitive- it's a 3 match doubles tournament, so is supposed to just be a laugh. I do also have a warlord on brood horror, hell pit abomination and Jabberslythe, along with the spire of dawn skaven stuff. Is there something I could swap out that might work better/be more fun? I think the Jabberslythe is actually a pretty decent, low cost unit that can be a lot of fun to play, but I haven't played the Hell Pit or brood Horror warlord yet.

[Mayple]

2 hours ago, hughwyeth said:

I'm entering a doubles with a skaven-playing mate. He's be playing 1,000pts of Skryre- 2x5 acolytes battleline and then weapons teams, stormfiends, arch warlock. I'm thinking of fielding 2x20 clan rats, 1x20 stormvermin, Warpgnaw Verminlord and Grey Seer. The Warpgnaw will deep strike with the stormvermin, the clan rats will defend the skryre shooting units, and the grey seer will half any cowardly running rats.

I know this list is not competitive- it's a 3 match doubles tournament, so is supposed to just be a laugh. I do also have a warlord on brood horror, hell pit abomination and Jabberslythe, along with the spire of dawn skaven stuff. Is there something I could swap out that might work better/be more fun? I think the Jabberslythe is actually a pretty decent, low cost unit that can be a lot of fun to play, but I haven't played the Hell Pit or brood Horror warlord yet.

I wrote a bunch of stuff thinking you were playing against Skryre, then I realised you were not. 

Skryre is weak at taking objectives, you'll want to supplement that. Don't be afraid of maxing out clanrat units (not all of them neccessarily) - it will help out your Skryre buddy a lot.

Unless your opponents present a weak flank, don't use the Warpgnaw to deepstrike. Instead, use the advantage of 'Anywhere on the map outside of 9'' ' to threaten objectives you otherwise wouldn't reach.  Preferable outside of retaliation range. Don't be afraid to hold it in reserve until turn 2, or even 3. Skryre will ensure that you guys are always killing something anyway. 

If you want to deepstrike, use the knowledge that your opponents will probably move a lot of their stuff forward, weakening their backline. Don't strike too soon. 

If Skryre is outranged by the enemy, you two should hide his stuff behind terrain, forcing the opponents to reposition, then you can strike them with Warpgnaw.

Buy your opponents beer. A drunk opponent is a beatable opponent 

And most importantly, have fun, and remember to betray your Skryre buddy before he betrays you!!

[Num]

Hello all

Did you get any juicy rumours on Skavens from Warhammer fest?

Cheers

[hughwyeth]

On 3/11/2018 at 11:05 AM, Mayple said:

I wrote a bunch of stuff thinking you were playing against Skryre, then I realised you were not. 

Skryre is weak at taking objectives, you'll want to supplement that. Don't be afraid of maxing out clanrat units (not all of them neccessarily) - it will help out your Skryre buddy a lot.

Unless your opponents present a weak flank, don't use the Warpgnaw to deepstrike. Instead, use the advantage of 'Anywhere on the map outside of 9'' ' to threaten objectives you otherwise wouldn't reach.  Preferable outside of retaliation range. Don't be afraid to hold it in reserve until turn 2, or even 3. Skryre will ensure that you guys are always killing something anyway. 

If you want to deepstrike, use the knowledge that your opponents will probably move a lot of their stuff forward, weakening their backline. Don't strike too soon. 

If Skryre is outranged by the enemy, you two should hide his stuff behind terrain, forcing the opponents to reposition, then you can strike them with Warpgnaw.

Buy your opponents beer. A drunk opponent is a beatable opponent 

And most importantly, have fun, and remember to betray your Skryre buddy before he betrays you!!

Thanks for your post! We managed to play a practice match against an Ironjawz list with 20 (!!!) brutes. I'm running the clanrats as 40 and taking 10 marauders to fill battleline (i know it breaks the skaven theme, but 40 clanrats are way better model for model than 20!). 20 stormvermin are amazing if you can get them to attack before the brutes. They wiped out a great number of brutes and a megaboss. The warpgnaw is good, but 4 attacks at 3/3, even with -2 aren't quite as reliable as you'd like if you're charging him into some tough enemies. IN any case it should be a fun day. I'll post some pics and battle reports here (unless we do really badly!)

[5kaven5lave]

Dreaded Thirteenth Spell then eh? Would’ve preferred a burrowing up on new units tbh rather than a magicking in but can’t argue with a few extra rats. Definitely taking my Screaming Bell now too as a double 6 can actually do something. 

[Deathmaster Snikch]

26 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Dreaded Thirteenth Spell then eh? Would’ve preferred a burrowing up on new units tbh rather than a magicking in but can’t argue with a few extra rats. Definitely taking my Screaming Bell now too as a double 6 can actually do something. 

It’s actually a worse version of its previous self as setting up 6 to 7 Clanrats isn’t really much to shout home about and neither is the bell. In a weird way though the fact the changes are minimal other than some points adjustments makes me hopeful that we’ll be getting a new book soon. I think they’re aware that our summoning is a very weak mechanic and the bell isn’t really viable and doesn’t sound likes it’s changed so hopefully we get the legions or Nagash Treatment soon

[Chickenbits]

Is there ANY way to play skaven/pestilens against Kunnin' Ruk? Because as the way things are now, if you see a Kunnin' Ruk army on the other side of the table, there's literally no reason to even play.

[hughwyeth]

On 5/26/2018 at 8:21 PM, Chickenbits said:

Is there ANY way to play skaven/pestilens against Kunnin' Ruk? Because as the way things are now, if you see a Kunnin' Ruk army on the other side of the table, there's literally no reason to even play.

Yeah its difficult- ally in some warpgrinder teams and deep strike huge numbers of rats maybe? Still a lot of wounds to get through though. 

[Deluxe]

With GW basically confirming that Thanquol & Boneripper is going to see a significant point drop, would they be worth bringing as allies in a Skryre list? Some of the obvious problems being that they'll have to trudge their way up the field (although a 10" move is pretty decent) and they are quite squishy, especially now with the upcoming change to Mystic Shield.

[JasperWeenink]

It'd probably be good to alley them into and eshin army and use skitterleap if you are worried about speed

[treeclimber]

So I was thinking about the new edition and how I can utilize it. Then I realized that the endless spells seem to do what skaven already does well: Mayhem! So I came up with this not so subtle list that is all about that mayhem:

Heroes:

Verminlord Warpseer - General

Arch-warlock

2 x Warlock engineer

Grey seer

 

Battleline:

3 x 40 clanrats

 

Other units:

2 x Ratling gun weapon team

2 x Warpfire thrower weapon team

2 x Poisoned Wind mortal weapon team

2 x Doom flayer weapon team

1860/2000

That's 7 spells per turn.  It might be beneficial to have more clanrats but I like the weapon teams. I fully expect the weapon teams to explode which, combined with predatory spells that kill as many rats as they kill the enemy, will truely create MAYHEM!

It is also worth noting that the changes to summoning will greatly benefit the command ability from the Warpseer. Being able to summon a group of giant rats to take objectives or act as meatshields could be very helpfull.

I have no idea how effective such a list will be but I expect it to be rather fun.

[Mayple]

I think there's a hidden gem in 'rat swarms' in the new edition

[Malakithe]

Anyone see any points changes or warscroll changes? Or even allegiance stuff?

[Mayple]

6 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Anyone see any points changes or warscroll changes? Or even allegiance stuff?

I saw some allegiance stuff for Skryre. Everything looked the same, except the 'double damage' has changed to 'add 1 to the damage characteristic of the model's weapon' after a succesful attack.

Which means models with a bunch of attacks (ratling gun) could really wreak havoc Especially with the command trait that re-rolls ones. 

Point wise, I saw that Plague priests are more expensive, Stormfiends are cheaper, tunneling weapon teams are cheaper, rat ogres are cheaper, and most of the Verminlords looked cheaper too. Rat swarms almost doubled in price.

I have no idea about pestilens allegiance stuff

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Mayple said:

I saw some allegiance stuff for Skryre. Everything looked the same, except the 'double damage' has changed to 'add 1 to the damage characteristic of the model's weapon' after a succesful attack.

Which means models with a bunch of attacks (ratling gun) could really wreak havoc Especially with the command trait that re-rolls ones. 

Point wise, I saw that Plague priests are more expensive, Stormfiends are cheaper, tunneling weapon teams are cheaper, rat ogres are cheaper, and most of the Verminlords looked cheaper too. Rat swarms almost doubled in price.

I have no idea about pestilens allegiance stuff

That...is actually not bad. Huh some good news. The double dmg thing was kinda wonky but long live the hail of green bullets! Stormfiends dropping is going to make building a Skryre battalion a lot easier. Just wish they would have added even a generic clawpack type battation for the others and make clanrats battleline for all.

[Reeve]

2 hours ago, Mayple said:

I saw some allegiance stuff for Skryre. Everything looked the same, except the 'double damage' has changed to 'add 1 to the damage characteristic of the model's weapon' after a succesful attack.

Which means models with a bunch of attacks (ratling gun) could really wreak havoc Especially with the command trait that re-rolls ones. 

Point wise, I saw that Plague priests are more expensive, Stormfiends are cheaper, tunneling weapon teams are cheaper, rat ogres are cheaper, and most of the Verminlords looked cheaper too. Rat swarms almost doubled in price.

I have no idea about pestilens allegiance stuff

If they're changing it that's a pretty big nerf in my opinion. While it was very wonky, it made mortars absolute beasts against horde armies. Dealing 12 damage was quite awesome. 

[Mayple]

7 minutes ago, Reeve said:

If they're changing it that's a pretty big nerf in my opinion. While it was very wonky, it made mortars absolute beasts against horde armies. Dealing 12 damage was quite awesome. 

It's a mortar nerf, for sure, but I think it will even out across the board. Shock gauntlets and ratling weapon teams having a notable buff.

[Num]

Noo, my toyyyss... I had 8 mortars in my list. Traitors!

[Nikobot]

@ Mayple Are you sure that it applies to all the attacks of a particular weapon?

e.g. all 2D6 attacks of a ratling gun?