Let's chat Skaven tactics

[Kugane]

21 hours ago, Kramer said:

Whats the word on the a moulder army, nothing competitive I reckon but could be great fun. I have a 1,5K game coming up where I might take this:

40 giant rats, 6+4 rat ogres, 3 packmasters 4swarms. (This is basically all the moulder i have, couple more packmasters and giant rats I think)

This leaves 340 points unused, we allow 300pt allies at 1,5k. So I’m curious what my fellow general-leaders would add to this core? 

Both from thematic or strategic points of view are appreciated! 

I am actually uncertain as of late if its even possible to use an allegiance that doesn't have abilities. Some people say an allegiance needs to have their allegiance abilities and such to be able to be fielded as one. I personally was under the assumption that, if for example, you use a Moulder Allegiance army, they would automatically get the Chaos allegiance abilities while being a Moulder Allegiance.  I would love some feedback on that if anyone knows the actual answer.

Anyways, lets just assume its legal to play: I think its a fun list. I'm not sure on the top of my head, but if it is possible, I would ally in a Chaos Sorcerer for the buff. The great thing about moulder is the fact that giant rats and ratswarms have no bravery issues, so no need to worry about battleshock.

Either way, I'm personally quite a fan of the Ratswarms, due to their tarpit ability and regenerating. So I would suggest using your remaining giant rats to create more swarms

[Kramer]

@Kugane I’m not sure I understand your question? You mean if you choose allegiance Chaos you would lose the moulder alliance and therefore the battleline if? I never heard any complaints about it. Certainly won’t be an issue in my group as it’s become standard practice. But it’s something I never even considered as it feels so logical. 

Ratswarms are great indeed, in all skaven armies. But... I’m not going to fill 340 points with just swarms. Amy thoughts on which vermin lord could be a nice additions?

[Kugane]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

@Kugane I’m not sure I understand your question? You mean if you choose allegiance Chaos you would lose the moulder alliance and therefore the battleline if? I never heard any complaints about it. Certainly won’t be an issue in my group as it’s become standard practice. But it’s something I never even considered as it feels so logical. 

Ratswarms are great indeed, in all skaven armies. But... I’m not going to fill 340 points with just swarms. Amy thoughts on which vermin lord could be a nice additions?

Well, there is the Verminlord Corruptor who can buff your guys, and alternatively, I would probably go with a Deceiver.

In a list like yours, I would personally fit in 3 Stormfiends and maybe ally a wizard of some sort to unbind spells and protect your stuff. Stormfiends don't count as allies either, which is great.

[tolstedt]

5 hours ago, Kugane said:

I am actually uncertain as of late if its even possible to use an allegiance that doesn't have abilities. Some people say an allegiance needs to have their allegiance abilities and such to be able to be fielded as one. I personally was under the assumption that, if for example, you use a Moulder Allegiance army, they would automatically get the Chaos allegiance abilities while being a Moulder Allegiance.  I would love some feedback on that if anyone knows the actual answer.

It's been working this way since the first GHB with Ironjawz.  Ironjawz got their battleline options and still get the GA abilities.  Same thing applies here.  Moulder automatically get chaos allegiance abilities.

[Kugane]

1 minute ago, tolstedt said:

It's been working this way since the first GHB with Ironjawz.  Ironjawz got their battleline options and still get the GA abilities.  Same thing applies here.  Moulder automatically get chaos allegiance abilities.

I see! Thank you for clearing that up :). The argument started recently in a discussion when somebody pointed out the Warscroll builder doesn't allow other "unsupported" factions to be selected as a GA and thus cannot count as an allegiance, but I'm glad to see this isn't the case at all.

[Kramer]

7 hours ago, Kugane said:

Stormfiends don't count as allies either, which is great.

good call! Hadn't thought about it, or have the models but it's a great excuse...

[Kugane]

58 minutes ago, Kramer said:

good call! Hadn't thought about it, or have the models but it's a great excuse...

Stormfiends seem to fit in about every Skaven army there is, as well as a lot of chaos armies in general. Even though the warpfire ones are the best ones in a non-skryre themed army. I suppose even 3 warpfire + an allied warpgrinder would do quite well in a Moulder list :). (Needs some converting, each box of stormfiends only has 1 weapon type per box instead of 3.)

[Kramer]

18 minutes ago, Kugane said:

Stormfiends seem to fit in about every Skaven army there is, as well as a lot of chaos armies in general. Even though the warpfire ones are the best ones in a non-skryre themed army. I suppose even 3 warpfire + an allied warpgrinder would do quite well in a Moulder list :). (Needs some converting, each box of stormfiends only has 1 weapon type per box instead of 3.)

Yeah, that's true, warpgrinder is a fun unit in general and stormfiends are good. But from a modelling standpoint, I would convert them anyway as I only recently noticed the shrivelled, driver rats on his back and god is that an awful image. But the modelling continues on the normal rat ogors, as they don't come included with the gun they have according to the rules. 

Shame though that the warlord on broodhorror doesn't have the MOULDER keyword and without the warlord does. 

So looking at the suggestions (thanks everybody!) and my options it will most likely be:

4x packmaster 
40 Giant Rats 
4 Rat Ogors
6 Rat Ogors
4 Rat Swarms

2x doomwheel 260 (just because I will get the second one in they mail today  Curious to see how they function as a duo.) 

[Kugane]

5 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah, that's true, warpgrinder is a fun unit in general and stormfiends are good. But from a modelling standpoint, I would convert them anyway as I only recently noticed the shrivelled, driver rats on his back and god is that an awful image. But the modelling continues on the normal rat ogors, as they don't come included with the gun they have according to the rules. 

Shame though that the warlord on broodhorror doesn't have the MOULDER keyword and without the warlord does. 

So looking at the suggestions (thanks everybody!) and my options it will most likely be:

4x packmaster 
40 Giant Rats 
4 Rat Ogors
6 Rat Ogors
4 Rat Swarms

2x doomwheel 260 (just because I will get the second one in they mail today  Curious to see how they function as a duo.) 

I would love to hear how the doomwheels perform! They are awesome haha.

[Kramer]

38 minutes ago, Kugane said:

I would love to hear how the doomwheels perform! They are awesome haha.

So far for me the model far outweighs it's performance  But last time it was on its own, before GHB2017 and after three games it was mostly effective as a roadblock. Hoping if I combo them, I can take a bit more risk, in trying to run one or both through the enemy line, preferably with a chance for a double turn, and wreak havoc! Or minimally use that constant threat to keep his lines more spread out  

[tolstedt]

I'm planning on using a warp grinder team for allies in pestilens to grind in a 40 block.  Pestilens are too slow and need at least one teleport tactic.

[Flood]

Hey guys, 

I have a quick question about artillery. I've heard it said on more than one occasion that warplightning cannons are really only effective when you run 2 of them. I'm wondering what people think about 1x warplightning cannon and 1x plague claw catapult as an alternative? 

I had two boxes, and I built one as a PCC for a small pestilens vessel I have, and the other as the WLC. Now I'm totally regretting building the PCC and wish I built 2x WLC! I can always buy another WLC, but that means I have to paint it! And I have so much ****** to paint as it is!! anyway, It seems like 1x WLC and 1x PCC can be a good option especially in the current horde meta? Is this not viable? and is 2x WLC a lot better? If it is substantially better, then I guess I'd be willing to get another WLC and paint it up. But I'm really leaning toward either running 1x WLC or 1x WLC 1x PCC. 

Thanks in advance for your opinions!

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Flood said:

Hey guys, 

I have a quick question about artillery. I've heard it said on more than one occasion that warplightning cannons are really only effective when you run 2 of them. I'm wondering what people think about 1x warplightning cannon and 1x plague claw catapult as an alternative? 

I had two boxes, and I built one as a PCC for a small pestilens vessel I have, and the other as the WLC. Now I'm totally regretting building the PCC and wish I built 2x WLC! I can always buy another WLC, but that means I have to paint it! And I have so much ****** to paint as it is!! anyway, It seems like 1x WLC and 1x PCC can be a good option especially in the current horde meta? Is this not viable? and is 2x WLC a lot better? If it is substantially better, then I guess I'd be willing to get another WLC and paint it up. But I'm really leaning toward either running 1x WLC or 1x WLC 1x PCC. 

Thanks in advance for your opinions!

Warplightning cannon excells at sniping characters.

Plagueclaws demolish units of 10+ models (and can, in a pinch, murder characters)

 

Plagueclaws can hit harder.

Warplightning are more consistent.

Plagueclaws have greater range (can almost always fire on turn 1) and don't require line of sight.

Warplightning don't suffer as much at point blank range. 

 

2x plagueclaws are a DAMAGE threat. 1x is a lucky hit every now and then.

2x warplightning are a CHARACTER threat, and forces them to avoid their deployment area altoghether. 1x is a few mortal wounds every now and then.

 

Plagueclaws are supplemented by Warpfire throwers.

Warplightning is supplemented by Skryre acolytes/poison wind mortars.

 

Hope that helps

[Flood]

56 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Warplightning cannon excells at sniping characters.

Plagueclaws demolish units of 10+ models (and can, in a pinch, murder characters)

 

Plagueclaws can hit harder.

Warplightning are more consistent.

Plagueclaws have greater range (can almost always fire on turn 1) and don't require line of sight.

Warplightning don't suffer as much at point blank range. 

 

2x plagueclaws are a DAMAGE threat. 1x is a lucky hit every now and then.

2x warplightning are a CHARACTER threat, and forces them to avoid their deployment area altoghether. 1x is a few mortal wounds every now and then.

 

Plagueclaws are supplemented by Warpfire throwers.

Warplightning is supplemented by Skryre acolytes/poison wind mortars.

 

Hope that helps

Hi, Thanks for the reply! Very helpful actually. So if I gather correctly, is your answer to my question that one of each is not effective? 

[Mayple]

43 minutes ago, Flood said:

Hi, Thanks for the reply! Very helpful actually. So if I gather correctly, is your answer to my question that one of each is not effective? 

Pretty much, yeah. Go with two of the type that suits your playstyle, and supplement where needed If you end up using only one, you should be pleasantly surprised every time it does anything at all.

Three are too many though, if you ever consider that. I've had that backfire on me big time.

[tolstedt]

14 hours ago, Flood said:

Hi, Thanks for the reply! Very helpful actually. So if I gather correctly, is your answer to my question that one of each is not effective? 

For my Pestilen army the ideal allies I've found are

x2 Wind Mortars (120)
x1 Warp lightning cannon (180)
x1 Drill Team (100)

Horde killers that can hide behind buildings and shoot over them, cannon to be scary, and the drill team for the movement.

[Filius]

Hi there,

 

I hope, it's okay to resurrect this thread, but if I'm not mistaken, that's kind of the idea of the "Let's Chat"-Threads. I do have a Question regarding Skaven List Building. Restricting to one Clan only seems a bit too boring to me (I don't care too much about competitivness). But if you choose Chaos only as you allegiance, your only Battleline Unit are the Clanrats, and as the profit massively from high Unit numbers, you'll probably end up with 3 x 40 Clanrat Units which is a bit not so tempting. Soo my question: When choosing Mixed Chaos als Allegiance, which Unit outside of the Skavens would be most usefull for a  (mostly) mixed Skaven Army?

 

Thanks in advance!

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Filius said:

Hi there,

 

I hope, it's okay to resurrect this thread, but if I'm not mistaken, that's kind of the idea of the "Let's Chat"-Threads. I do have a Question regarding Skaven List Building. Restricting to one Clan only seems a bit too boring to me (I don't care too much about competitivness). But if you choose Chaos only as you allegiance, your only Battleline Unit are the Clanrats, and as the profit massively from high Unit numbers, you'll probably end up with 3 x 40 Clanrat Units which is a bit not so tempting. Soo my question: When choosing Mixed Chaos als Allegiance, which Unit outside of the Skavens would be most usefull for a  (mostly) mixed Skaven Army?

 

Thanks in advance!

Skaven is by nature a horde army, so you'll end up with quite a few rats unless you're doing something weird That being said, chaos marauders do the trick for your battleline connundrum. I would do some converting/kitbashing to make them look like slaves, since that'd be their role in a Skaven army. Consider the flagellant models for this purpose. 

Once you've got that down, you can grab anything, so go crazy! 

[Filius]

11 hours ago, Mayple said:

Skaven is by nature a horde army, so you'll end up with quite a few rats unless you're doing something weird That being said, chaos marauders do the trick for your battleline connundrum. I would do some converting/kitbashing to make them look like slaves, since that'd be their role in a Skaven army. Consider the flagellant models for this purpose. 

Once you've got that down, you can grab anything, so go crazy! 

Thanks for the help. I'm especially looking forward to grab anything and go crazy, hehe. I thought about using Chaos Warriors (with a few conversions, maybe), because they are so tanky, and what I've read about the Skaven Units sofar seemed like they could use Tanks …

[Filius]

Now that I think about it … I correct my question: Is there any Chaos Battleline Unit that is worth to be prefered over Clanrats within a mostly Skaven (Skyre) Army?

[Nikobot]

storm fiends and acolyte are Skryre battleline and both are pretty exciting options if not exactly bread and butter.

id recommend taking a Skryre allegiance and using your allies on clanrats, as clanrats still offer great value as a meat shield.

[tolstedt]

You are going to need the 3x40 clanrats.  Gotta have those rat bodies.

The strength of skaven is having so many that you can lose some and not care because more waves are coming.

[tolstedt]

I run 140 monks in my pestilens list.

[Filius]

4 hours ago, Nikobot said:

storm fiends and acolyte are Skryre battleline and both are pretty exciting options if not exactly bread and butter.

id recommend taking a Skryre allegiance and using your allies on clanrats, as clanrats still offer great value as a meat shield.

Yes, yes, I'll probably end up with those guys … but … there are sooo many other great Skaven Units, so that 400 points of allies seems to small for all the awesome Units, I want to play, hehe.

 

 

 

[Kugane]

6 hours ago, Filius said:

Yes, yes, I'll probably end up with those guys … but … there are sooo many other great Skaven Units, so that 400 points of allies seems to small for all the awesome Units, I want to play, hehe.

 

 

 

You could always go with Grand Alliance: Chaos and mix your rats to your heart's content. May not be as competitive, but it sure would be fun, lol