Let's chat Skaven tactics

[Flood]

2 hours ago, Nico said:

8 wounds and a 4+ save would be a bargain if not a windfall for 100 points! It's close to the 10 points per wound Liberator baseline.

Most heroes are 5 wounds and a 4 up save, but they could output damage. it would make sense for the doomwheel to be costed the same as a 5 would model but get 3 extra wounds in leu of its 1) lack of damage output, 2) random movement, 3) risk of rolling doubles and your enemy rolls it over your own units and toward another planet.

Last time i used it i rolled a double 6. It pummeled my WLC and got so far from the battle it took nearly the entire game to get back into position. I think thats warants 8 wounds if you ask me :p. 

[kiblams]

On ‎06‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 10:24 PM, Eocosa said:

...

I believe a 3+\3+ boils down to a 50% chance to do damage (prior saves), so you can see how in a game that can be over in 3-5 turns only averaging 1-3 hits (which can sometimes do like 1 damage) isn't all that impressive. 

...

There more to this story though, if the Plagueclaws are targeting a unit of 11+ models they become 2+\3+ and 2d6 damage each. and there is now a battle trait that gives rerolls for wound rolls of 1. So they can be made to work well, especially under a GHB that seems intent on forcing players to take hordes.

[Eocosa]

Ohh yes you are absolutely correct!

 

I used the 3/3 as kind of a generic example (truth be told I wasn't 100% what the hit/wound were off my head) as to how most artillery, even those with a decent 3/3 are still fairly hit/miss.

Plague claws can be utterly devestating in this meta of larger units, while the WLC is still pretty nice for mortal wound output at range, so I totally agree with you on that!

[Professor Clio]

As promised: quick battle report from today's first GHB 2017 game:

 

Battle plan was scorched earth. Opponent was SCE. All in all it was an very fun game that I lost 14-13 only because he managed an 11 inch charge into an objective on the bottom of the last term. 

That said the army feels even more underpowered now without the verminus clawpack and the crown of conquest . The bell was worth its points, the staying power alone for 200 points is fantastic but the wheel did nothing.

Tthe only reason I was even in the game was some hot dice and smart positioning to grab objectives and destroy them in enemy territory with greater weight of numbers. Even with 100 rat bodies on the table my army melted very quickly without killing many SCE. 

So as much fun as the game was I'm tempted to box it up and use my other armies until such as time as we get a book with skaven abilities/artifacts.

[Flood]

31 minutes ago, Professor Clio said:

As promised: quick battle report from today's first GHB 2017 game:

 

Battle plan was scorched earth. Opponent was SCE. All in all it was an very fun game that I lost 14-13 only because he managed an 11 inch charge into an objective on the bottom of the last term. 

That said the army feels even more underpowered now without the verminus clawpack and the crown of conquest . The bell was worth its points, the staying power alone for 200 points is fantastic but the wheel did nothing.

Tthe only reason I was even in the game was some hot dice and smart positioning to grab objectives and destroy them in enemy territory with greater weight of numbers. Even with 100 rat bodies on the table my army melted very quickly without killing many SCE. 

So as much fun as the game was I'm tempted to box it up and use my other armies until such as time as we get a book with skaven abilities/artifacts.

Man thats really sad to hear :(. Ive been really struggling with my skaven and wanting to start something new. Either ironjawz, sylvaneth, or SCE. Id even be happy with FEC although not the stongest. But skaven is just underperforming too much... they arent what they were in 8th edition, thats for sure. 

Also sad to hear the doom wheel did nothing, although not surprising. This is just further evidence that its drop in points by only 10 was simply not enough. I was hoping a model as great as the wheel would be viable. 

I was really expecting and hoping skaven would get a power bump, but instead an already weak faction got nerfed by the loss of verminus clawpack and crown of conquest. 

[Professor Clio]

Call me an eternal optimist but I just can't see GW not giving a faction this popular some love in the short to medium term. 

[Flood]

I really hope so. I want them to work and like them a lot. Im just not a big fan of getting railroaded unless the dice are loaded. 

[Kugane]

On 9/6/2017 at 8:28 AM, Deathmaster Snikch said:

Building on your list which I think is cool I might test this out this weekend as I'm going to a games night Friday 

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Grey Seer (120)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Verminlord Warbringer (300)
Arch Warlock (140)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
3 x Stormfiends (300)
-  Skryre Battleline

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Total: 2000/2000
 

 

How did it go?

I just ordered another island of blood box to get a 3rd horde of 40 clanrats. Going to be a hell to paint even more rats haha. I don't see people running any stormvermin anymore. Have they become obsolete?

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, Kugane said:

I don't see people running any stormvermin anymore. Have they become obsolete?

Hope not. They're among my favourite skaven models - and the unit is not bad either. Looks worse than it is, tbh. Outperforms a bunch of other elite units for the same cost, and can do even better if buffed. They will essentially murder anything they outnumber, and can easily retreat and charge away from an unfavourable matchup into a favourable one

[Kugane]

1 minute ago, Mayple said:

Hope not. They're among my favourite skaven models - and the unit is not bad either. Looks worse than it is, tbh. Outperforms a bunch of other elite units for the same cost, and can do even better if buffed. They will essentially murder anything they outnumber, and can easily retreat and charge away from an unfavourable matchup into a favourable one

In a group of 40 they'll pretty much outnumber anything other than stuff like zombies, which is quite good! I was also looking at giant rats damage output, they have no save, but they can deal scary ammounts of damage.

[Deathmaster Snikch]

On 10/09/2017 at 1:26 AM, Kugane said:

In a group of 40 they'll pretty much outnumber anything other than stuff like zombies, which is quite good! I was also looking at giant rats damage output, they have no save, but they can deal scary ammounts of damage.

I agree, losing the v- clawpack means they're harder to buff, but even without it they still hit very hard. I'm finding the warpgnaw to be a great companion for them, drop down and spread out, increase their move to 14 if they flee from a combat and charge elsewhere. I never used to use them before but I've been having fun with them recently with a grey seer general since he doesn't need line of sight to prevent them from fleeing, and neither does his spell 

[Kugane]

6 hours ago, Deathmaster Snikch said:

I agree, losing the v- clawpack means they're harder to buff, but even without it they still hit very hard. I'm finding the warpgnaw to be a great companion for them, drop down and spread out, increase their move to 14 if they flee from a combat and charge elsewhere. I never used to use them before but I've been having fun with them recently with a grey seer general since he doesn't need line of sight to prevent them from fleeing, and neither does his spell 

What are your thoughts on an Eshin allegiance list? Will bravery really become an issue? I'm currently building a 50~60 gutter runner list

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Kugane said:

What are your thoughts on an Eshin allegiance list? Will bravery really become an issue? I'm currently building a 50~60 gutter runner list

With bravery that low, it will definitely become a problem if you have no way to mitigate it. Eshin can see more casualties to bravery than actual combat.

[5kaven5lave]

Are the Skryre bataillions worth it guys?

[Sastopher]

4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Are the Skryre bataillions worth it guys?

I'm not sure they are anymore.

The double gautfyre skorch used to be a pretty mean list, but they gave it a compulsory 200 point nerf above the 200 it already cost which probably puts it out of range of being competitive. It also wasn't very popular to play against. I haven't played with the new points but the list always felt very all-or-nothing, where if you can't quite get over a critical threshold then it doesn't work, so I suspect this change will hurt it a lot and you won't see much of it anymore.

The other battalions aren't very exciting. You trade a lot of flexibility and 200 points (100 + 50 + 50) for what usually amounts to 2d6 mortal wounds at range, with you risking taking some back in return. Points-wise, that's not too bad, so it might be worth it if your list already has most of the requirements. My one big complaint with these battalions is they all require at minimum an Arch-Warlock and two Warlock Engineers. With Rule of One in play, I found I ran out of useful spells to cast, leaving them as 100 point sinks. One thing I want to experiment with is leaving some points open for a summoning pool, which would give all these casters something to do on their turns and let skryre field some additional tarpits.

I briefly looked into an all-in strategy where a 12-man unit of jezzails gets all buffed up for extra mortal wound damage and then fires twice a turn with rattlegauge warplock's ability. The only obvious source of +hit buff I found was vigordust injector.  If there was some stackable source, you could do insane damage. At +4 to hit you could get 35/36 * 2 * 12 * 2 = 46.7 mortal wounds per turn at 30". At +2 it drops to 28 mortal wounds and 9.3 wounds at rend 1. At +1, it's 18.7 mortal wounds and 12.4 at rend 1. Might still be worth trying, though you're going to have a hard time protecting your 540 point glass cannon from all the mobility and deep striking in the game.

[5kaven5lave]

Awesome post, thanks for the reply. Almost thinking of just going for Chaos allegiance and going all in with whatever Skaven I feel like. Losing Stormfiends as battleline will be tough though.

Would like to put some Skryre Acolytes in if I were to stay Skryre to beef up my front lines a bit but aren't they like a tenner each and you need 5 for a unit? Can't be doing with all those horrific looking old more-like-monkeys-than-rats type models either I'm afraid. 

[Kramer]

On 9/19/2017 at 5:33 PM, 5kaven5lave said:

Awesome post, thanks for the reply. Almost thinking of just going for Chaos allegiance and going all in with whatever Skaven I feel like. Losing Stormfiends as battleline will be tough though.

Would like to put some Skryre Acolytes in if I were to stay Skryre to beef up my front lines a bit but aren't they like a tenner each and you need 5 for a unit? Can't be doing with all those horrific looking old more-like-monkeys-than-rats type models either I'm afraid. 

They are way to expensive it's true. But depending how much you like the modelling side of things... a unit of clanrats with glass balls sculpted into one hand is a very good start. Loose the shields, maybe even go plague monks as 'acolytes' fits more with the robes. Loose some of the skulls and maybe some backpacks on some. Could be quite could and fairly cheap (i think€30 for 30? + green stuff) 

[5kaven5lave]

Yeah, actually, Plaguemonks as Acolytes would work well, buying a Start Collecting Pestilens box for a Lightning Catapult and Screaming Bell so will get some in there. Great shout, thanks. 

[Kramer]

On 9/21/2017 at 7:11 PM, 5kaven5lave said:

Yeah, actually, Plaguemonks as Acolytes would work well, buying a Start Collecting Pestilens box for a Lightning Catapult and Screaming Bell so will get some in there. Great shout, thanks. 

No worries, surprised myself with the suggestion a bit, and now can't get the idea out of my head...  Oh well, can't do everything at once i guess.

[5kaven5lave]

What ho chaps,

Quick question on Stormfiends, just wanted to hear some recommendations on weapons. Basically I've bought in 2 units of 3 for my Skryre battleline to go alongside 10 Acolytes (or 2x5) and 40 Clanrats. 

So I was thinking one unit of Doomflayer Gauntlets and one unit of Warpfire Projectors. Would that work?

Cheers!!

[Kugane]

I may have found a new Skaven buddy: Archaon the Everchosen.

Is he legal to play in tournaments? His crown ability might give Skaven the much-needed bravery boost. What do you people think? Also, what would be the best battlelines to go for in a Chaos list? I'm finding that 3 units of 40 are a bit cloggy in terms of points, leaving little room for anything else. Are Ungors still a viable cheap battleline for screening?

[Rubencm81]

Guys, anything interesting for us on the Firestorm campaign?

[Dez]

No but *puts on tin foil Skryre hat* it could be because the Firestorm stuff was all armies that got recent updates.

[Mattbringssoda]

On 10/4/2017 at 2:31 PM, Kugane said:

I may have found a new Skaven buddy: Archaon the Everchosen.

Is he legal to play in tournaments? His crown ability might give Skaven the much-needed bravery boost. What do you people think? Also, what would be the best battlelines to go for in a Chaos list? I'm finding that 3 units of 40 are a bit cloggy in terms of points, leaving little room for anything else. Are Ungors still a viable cheap battleline for screening?

Nice.  And using his command ability to allow two skaven warlords to use double Gnash-Gnaw might make for a LOT of attacks from big hungry groups of rats with 2" range - that might be fun to try!  I see a proxied Chaos Knight in my future..

[foolsama]

On 10/4/2017 at 5:31 PM, Kugane said:

I may have found a new Skaven buddy: Archaon the Everchosen.

Is he legal to play in tournaments? His crown ability might give Skaven the much-needed bravery boost. What do you people think? Also, what would be the best battlelines to go for in a Chaos list? I'm finding that 3 units of 40 are a bit cloggy in terms of points, leaving little room for anything else. Are Ungors still a viable cheap battleline for screening?

Archaon, the Everchosen has been compendium'd. He is now just a 'Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount'.  It's 700 points for the 'new' Archaon, or bust.