Let's chat Skaven tactics

[gRIB]

No one tryed FAQed Deathrunner as general?
Double inspiring\lord of war\great destroyer\even crown seems dope.... If i read his rules (in FAQ) right.

[Shea]

Hi Vermins what about a Great Alliance with Warherd? It is viable? And If yes how to deployment it? Thanks in advance 

[BloodTithe]

I dunno if you guys will be interested, but I love skaven and made 2 videos on them, based on how I see the clans as of the GH2017.  Sorry for messing up the "Skryre" pronunciation. One of my subs corrected me. Here's the first part, and there is a second part to it too  will post in pestilens section too.

 

[Deathmaster Snikch]

On 31/08/2017 at 11:52 PM, Kugane said:

I still have a lot of Jezzails lying around from Skitarii stuff. Did you even give those monks orbs to throw? Or is it fine to just have them as a counts-as with guns?

Yep, sure did, I green stuffed orbs and painted them as pokeballs. My grey seer is also holding s pokeball, my warpseer is holding a master ball and the rats on my receivers base are all painted like rattata's from pokemon

[Deathmaster Snikch]

On 04/09/2017 at 5:34 AM, Malakithe said:

Potential list. Saw the original version of this on facebook. Tweaked it a bit to include stuff I liked

Leaders
Verminlord Warbringer (300)
Verminlord Warbringer (300)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Grey Seer (120)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Chaos Talisman
Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
Units
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)
1 x Ratling Gun Weapon Team (80)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
Total: 2000/2000

The PWM and Ratling Gun are just in there to fill in points. I wanted to include the new Warlord on Brood Horror cuz that bad boy can do some work now I think. I suppose I could cut out a Warbringer for him
 

Drop the weapons teams for an arch warlock and a warbringer for either 30 nightrunners to screen and zone or for 3 storm-friends 

[Deathmaster Snikch]

Building on your list which I think is cool I might test this out this weekend as I'm going to a games night Friday 

Allegiance: Chaos

Leaders
Grey Seer (120)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Verminlord Warbringer (300)
Arch Warlock (140)

Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
3 x Stormfiends (300)
-  Skryre Battleline

War Machines
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)

Total: 2000/2000
 

[Malakithe]

Did you see this one too? Slightly tweaked but with the same concept for the most part. The new Warlord on Horror rules look awesome. They look like they could hit harder then the Warbringer and cost less but have less wounds and move and arent wizards. But with the Stormfiends and Jezzails there would be plenty of priority targets for a opponent to deal with on top of a loooooot of clanrats contesting stuff. I think people underestimate the Warpseer but his spell that stops running, flying, and cuts charges in half is too good to pass up 

Leaders
Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror (220)
Skaven Warlord on Brood Horror (220)
Verminlord Warpseer (260)
Grey Seer (120)
- General
- Trait: Cunning Deceiver
- Artefact: Chaos Talisman
Battleline
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
40 x Clanrats (200)
- Rusty Spear
3 x Stormfiends (300)
Units
6 x Warplock Jezzails (280)

Total: 2000/2000

[Flood]

Hey guys. I have a question in regards to our warmachines. In a mixed skaven army, what do you guys think about running 1 warp lightning cannon and 1 plague claw catapult, as opposed to the very popular 2x WLC. 

I built one of each because i initially told myself that having a variety of units is more important to me than uber competitiveness. I still like to try and build strong lists, but with a hint of "this aint so strong, but its cool." I figure if i dont add too many things that are underpowered, i wont be cripling my list to the point that it will make a huge difference...

With that said, ive been really regretting building the PCC and wish i had 2x WLC lol. Now with the new massive regiments rules though, hopefully the PCC will be of more use. If i can get the thing to stop rolling ones, the damage output really is great. Even more potential than the WLC. But i swear it hits once per game... so bad. I played a game recently and it literally did 0 damage... never landed a single blow of slime. I dont know how a one can show up every time i roll to hit with it! Its like a higher force is working against it. Maybe the crew is athiest or werent paying attention at church?

So whats your opinion? Is 1 WLC and 1 PCC viable? Alternatively ive been bringing 1 WLC and leaving the PCC on the shelf to use the points elsewhere. I havent played 2x WLC, so im wondering if its that much better. Am i missing out? Its not that much money to just buy another one, but i really dont feel like painting a THIRD WLC/PCC. Id rather paint something else as im pretty limited on time. 

Side note. Another reason i built the PCC is because i have a plague furnace, a foot priest, and 40 plague monks. I felt my small pestilens vessel could use a catapult. I rarely field pure pestilens though... i like to mix things up. Its just more fun. 

Thanks for your opinions in adance!

[Eocosa]

Yea that's the problem with single artillery pieces, they are VERY hit or miss and in AOS are not too cheap either.

Thats why you often see them in pairs because at least that way you are most likely damaging something every turn, at least a little, and when they DO both manage to hit its very damaging.

I believe a 3+\3+ boils down to a 50% chance to do damage (prior saves), so you can see how in a game that can be over in 3-5 turns only averaging 1-3 hits (which can sometimes do like 1 damage) isn't all that impressive. 

This isn't too say artillery is bad. Just often it is best doubled up on to smooth out the peaks and valleys of damage, because blowing away a hero essentially every turn or so can be quite devestating!

As to your specific question on models (sorry for the rant!), I can see plagueclaws becoming very effective with all the larger units around and even if your artillery don't hit all that often. I assure you it definitely dictates how your opponent plays which has a value all of it's own!

[JasperWeenink]

Here is a list I am going to try

40 clanrats (200) ×3

40 stormvermin (500)

Skaven warlord (100) general with crown of conquest and cunning deciever

Arch warlock (140)

Warlock engineer (100)

Warplightning cannon (180)

Ratling gun cannon (80) ×4

Doomflayer weaponteam (60)

[JasperWeenink]

Do the clawpacks still exist?

[Flood]

4 hours ago, Eocosa said:

Yea that's the problem with single artillery pieces, they are VERY hit or miss and in AOS are not too cheap either.

Thats why you often see them in pairs because at least that way you are most likely damaging something every turn, at least a little, and when they DO both manage to hit its very damaging.

I believe a 3+\3+ boils down to a 50% chance to do damage (prior saves), so you can see how in a game that can be over in 3-5 turns only averaging 1-3 hits (which can sometimes do like 1 damage) isn't all that impressive. 

This isn't too say artillery is bad. Just often it is best doubled up on to smooth out the peaks and valleys of damage, because blowing away a hero essentially every turn or so can be quite devestating!

As to your specific question on models (sorry for the rant!), I can see plagueclaws becoming very effective with all the larger units around and even if your artillery don't hit all that often. I assure you it definitely dictates how your opponent plays which has a value all of it's own!

Thanks for your response. I completely agree with you on the matter of dictating the way an enemy will play. Even if the PCC doesn't do all that much damage, I still think it will force my opponent to move, and hopefully he'll make a mistake. 

But what do you think about a list composition composed of a WLC and PCC vs 1 WLC alone and say maybe 3x Warplock Jezzails or more Clan Rats in leu of the PCC? 

[Flood]

1 minute ago, JasperWeenink said:

Do the clawpacks still exist?

No they do not. They can exist if you want them to, but that doesn't make them legal. I suppose you can play with them in open play - you can pretty much do whatever you want in open play. In terms of matched play, they're a goner. 

[JasperWeenink]

6 hours ago, Flood said:

Hey guys. I have a question in regards to our warmachines. In a mixed skaven army, what do you guys think about running 1 warp lightning cannon and 1 plague claw catapult, as opposed to the very popular 2x WLC. 

I built one of each because i initially told myself that having a variety of units is more important to me than uber competitiveness. I still like to try and build strong lists, but with a hint of "this aint so strong, but its cool." I figure if i dont add too many things that are underpowered, i wont be cripling my list to the point that it will make a huge difference...

With that said, ive been really regretting building the PCC and wish i had 2x WLC lol. Now with the new massive regiments rules though, hopefully the PCC will be of more use. If i can get the thing to stop rolling ones, the damage output really is great. Even more potential than the WLC. But i swear it hits once per game... so bad. I played a game recently and it literally did 0 damage... never landed a single blow of slime. I dont know how a one can show up every time i roll to hit with it! Its like a higher force is working against it. Maybe the crew is athiest or werent paying attention at church?

So whats your opinion? Is 1 WLC and 1 PCC viable? Alternatively ive been bringing 1 WLC and leaving the PCC on the shelf to use the points elsewhere. I havent played 2x WLC, so im wondering if its that much better. Am i missing out? Its not that much money to just buy another one, but i really dont feel like painting a THIRD WLC/PCC. Id rather paint something else as im pretty limited on time. 

Side note. Another reason i built the PCC is because i have a plague furnace, a foot priest, and 40 plague monks. I felt my small pestilens vessel could use a catapult. I rarely field pure pestilens though... i like to mix things up. Its just more fun. 

Thanks for your opinions in adance!

Two warplightning cannons can be very good, but ratling gun cannons do the same average damage of 3.5 and are 100 points less

[Flood]

1 minute ago, JasperWeenink said:

Two warplightning cannons can be very good, but ratling gun cannons do the same average damage of 3.5 and are 100 points less

But rattling gun weapon team's lack 2 very key features of a WLC. They do not have the range to reach out and pick off key heroes, and they are not mortal wounds. That's a huge difference, especially when heroes try and stay out of range and typically have a decent to good save. 

[JasperWeenink]

2 minutes ago, Flood said:

But rattling gun weapon team's lack 2 very key features of a WLC. They do not have the range to reach out and pick off key heroes, and they are not mortal wounds. That's a huge difference, especially when heroes try and stay out of range and typically have a decent to good save. 

Good point, but you can put a lot of them in because they are not artillery

[Flood]

Here's a list I want to try. 

Thanquol and Bone ripper (warpfire projectors) 450

Verminlord deceiver 320

Grey Seer (general) 120

3x 40 Clanrats 600

3x Stormfiends (3x warpfire projectors) 300

WLC 180

total points  = 1970

 

I don't expect this list to do all that great, but skitterleaping thanquol is fun.

Trying out the Grey Seer for his battleshock ability. 

 

I considered dropping the grey seer and 20 clanrats for a Chaos Sorcerer lord. Making Thanquol the general instead of the Grey Seer for his 5+ ward save ability on the clanrats, and then the Chaos Sorcerer Lord can give rerolls of 1 to save (and hit and wound). That should make the clanrats more durable. I'm just sad that crown of conquest isn't reliable anymore, because battleshock immunity to 1 unit would be amazing in this situation :(. 

That list would look something like this. 

Thanquol and Bone ripper (warpfire projectors) 450 (general)

Verminlord deceiver 320

Chaos Sorcerer Lord 160

2x 40 Clanrats 400

1x 20 Clanrats (120)

5 Gutter runners (60). 

3x Stormfiends (3x warpfire projectors) 300

WLC 180

total points  = 1990

[Mattbringssoda]

38 minutes ago, Flood said:

Here's a list I want to try. 

Thanquol and Bone ripper (warpfire projectors) 450

Verminlord deceiver 320

Grey Seer (general) 120

3x 40 Clanrats 600

3x Stormfiends (3x warpfire projectors) 300

WLC 180

total points  = 1970

 

I don't expect this list to do all that great, but skitterleaping thanquol is fun.

Trying out the Grey Seer for his battleshock ability. 

 

I considered dropping the grey seer and 20 clanrats for a Chaos Sorcerer lord. Making Thanquol the general instead of the Grey Seer for his 5+ ward save ability on the clanrats, and then the Chaos Sorcerer Lord can give rerolls of 1 to save (and hit and wound). That should make the clanrats more durable. I'm just sad that crown of conquest isn't reliable anymore, because battleshock immunity to 1 unit would be amazing in this situation :(. 

That list would look something like this. 

Thanquol and Bone ripper (warpfire projectors) 450 (general)

Verminlord deceiver 320

Chaos Sorcerer Lord 160

2x 40 Clanrats 400

1x 20 Clanrats (120)

5 Gutter runners (60). 

3x Stormfiends (3x warpfire projectors) 300

WLC 180

total points  = 1990

Been putzing around with the same thing.   All those clanrats rerolling all those ones is very appealing.  Would love to hear how it works out for you if you try it. 

[TheWilddog]

1 hour ago, Flood said:

Here's a list I want to try. 

Thanquol and Bone ripper (warpfire projectors) 450

Verminlord deceiver 320

Grey Seer (general) 120

3x 40 Clanrats 600

3x Stormfiends (3x warpfire projectors) 300

WLC 180

total points  = 1970

 

I don't expect this list to do all that great, but skitterleaping thanquol is fun.

I have run a list very similar and I can confirm that it is pretty fun.  The big issue I ran into is if the Thanquol and BR alpha strike does not do its job and cripple/eliminate a key part of the opposing army then you are in big trouble.  I have leaped big boy over a couple times and rolled low on his warpfire projector mortals and then lost him in the counter attack.  After that the match is an uphill battle. 

[JasperWeenink]

On 01/12/2016 at 0:13 AM, Nico said:

You mean 18 D3. Unit of 9 with Crown of Conquest and mystic shield....

Or 24 d3 for a unit of 12

Minimum damage of 24 and an avarage of 48

[Professor Clio]

Playing my first game under GHB 2017 tomorrow. My usual clawpack list not being legal and the added core tax in form of large min-size clanrat units threw me for a loop so I'm just going to test stuff out.

 

Screaming Bell (general)

Verminlord Deceiver

Arch-Warlock

warlock engineer

40 clanrats

20 clanrats

20 clanrats

20 stormvermin

doomwheel

warp lightning cannon

warp lightning cannon

 

Probably not uber competitive but I wanted to test out the newly reduced bell and doomwheel to see if they're worth using now. Such cool models I'm hoping to use them more.  The idea is to use the bell's +1 bravery/+1 movement to swarm the objectives with 100 rat bodies and hopefully get enough victory points to win before they all die while the deiceiver and wheel provide a mobile distraction and the cannons snipe characters. I'll report back with the results tomorrow.

[TheWilddog]

6 minutes ago, Professor Clio said:

Playing my first game under GHB 2017 tomorrow. My usual clawpack list not being legal and the added core tax in form of large min-size clanrat units threw me for a loop so I'm just going to test stuff out.

 

Screaming Bell (general)

Verminlord Deceiver

Arch-Warlock

warlock engineer

40 clanrats

20 clanrats

20 clanrats

20 stormvermin

doomwheel

warp lightning cannon

warp lightning cannon

 

Probably not uber competitive but I wanted to test out the newly reduced bell and doomwheel to see if they're worth using now. Such cool models I'm hoping to use them more.  The idea is to use the bell's +1 bravery/+1 movement to swarm the objectives with 100 rat bodies and hopefully get enough victory points to win before they all die while the deiceiver and wheel provide a mobile distraction and the cannons snipe characters. I'll report back with the results tomorrow.

I want the Doomwheel to work soooooo badly.  It is one of my favorite models but it has rarely done much for me.  It's random attacks are just unreliable so it often ends up being a 130 point speed bump.

Maybe if I double down and run two ..... 

 

[Professor Clio]

39 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

Maybe if I double down and run two ..... 

mmmm, there's an idea

[Flood]

43 minutes ago, TheWilddog said:

I want the Doomwheel to work soooooo badly.  It is one of my favorite models but it has rarely done much for me.  It's random attacks are just unreliable so it often ends up being a 130 point speed bump.

Maybe if I double down and run two ..... 

 

I think one of the biggest injustices of ghb2017 was doom wheel only going down by 10 points. That was a sad story. It should be 100 pts imo. I think it should be costed as a warp grinder weapon team. Even then, the warp grinder is probably more valuable. The doom wheel will rarely do as much damage as a 60 point flame thrower, and that's... well, 60 points! In all honesty, i think a rework of the warscroll is the only thing that can really fix it. 

[Nico]

8 wounds and a 4+ save would be a bargain if not a windfall for 100 points! It's close to the 10 points per wound Liberator baseline.