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Let's chat Grotz and Moonclan

MidasKiss

By MidasKiss
in Destruction

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meet.the.doctor Protector

meet.the.doctor

Posted
Posted
The FAQ states that you release all of the fanatics at the same time, I believe.

That is true but I am asking if you can have 2 or more UNITS of fanatics in one unit of Moonclan. If one unit of Fanatics is max 6, the question is can I have 12 fanatics hidden in it?

 

The idea is to eg. Release 1 fanatic(being one unit) in front to stop a potential charge and other one (6 being other unit) in the back to move next turn and wipe out the enemy.

 

 

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Nico Lord Celestant

Nico

Posted
Posted
Quote

Is it possible to hide 2 units(or more) of Fanatics in one unit of Moonclan Grots?

 

And even if not, is it legal to hide a unit of fanatics inside unit of fantics(5+)?

Yes.

Yes

Quote

The FAQ states that you release all of the fanatics at the same time, I believe.

What this FAQ answer probably means is that you cannot do what some people used to do which is to write a unit of Fanatics (e.g. 12) and them spit them out in arbitrary ones, twos, threes or sixes etc. from a single unit. 

I believe that this is the problem that the FAQ answer was trying to fix.

What you do have to do is deploy the Fanatics as units of a fixed size (which includes "dropping" them when it's your turn to deploy a unit, so they count towards the number of drops). So you could have units of (say) 2 Fanatics, 6 Fanatics and 3 Fanatics. Let's say that these are all in the same host unit.

It would be unique and odd for one discrete unit of Fanatics to be mysteriously tethered to the other units, so that triggering one would trigger the other units. It's not impossible, but I'm not convinced that this was the intention of the FAQ answer.

In my view you can still choose to deploy the unit of 2 Fanatics (both models within 1") of the host unit; without being also forced to deploy the unit of 6 Fanatics and the unit of 3 Fanatics.

What the FAQ is stopping you doing is deploying one Fanatic from the unit of 6 each turn (in other words gaining the benefit of fewer drops AND the flexibility of spitting out the Fanatics in quantities of your choice).

I'm fairly confident about this, but welcome thoughts.

From a balance perspective, they certainly didn't need a triple nerf to the mighty Moonclan Grots (dead battalion+dead Hooded Villain, 1" deployment and not able to choose when Fanatics pop out if you put multiple units in one host). #LongLiveTheHoodedVillain

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RoloMcFury Prosecutor

RoloMcFury

Posted
Posted

I've only recently gotten into the game, and have been smitten by these delightful grots. As such, I'd like to get a solid list together of mostly grots. When you mention this:

4 hours ago, Nico said:

From a balance perspective, they certainly didn't need a triple nerf to the mighty Moonclan Grots (dead battalion+dead Hooded Villain, 1" deployment and not able to choose when Fanatics pop out if you put multiple units in one host). #LongLiveTheHoodedVillain

What "nerf" are you referring to in regards to the battalion being dead? The fact that it is a compendium option?

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Furious Dracothian Guard

Furious

Posted
Posted

It literally says that:

"They must all be released at the same time, and must all be placed within 1" of the unit that is hiding them."

 

I agree that it's an oversight in phrasing and looking over the specifics of multiple units. But as it's written there, "they" (referencing the question, "more than one Grot Fanatic in the same unit of Moonclan Grots") must all be released. It doesn't specify what you do with multiple units of Fanatics in a unit of Moonclan, therefore you can't really go on assumptions.

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Nico Lord Celestant

Nico

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Nico that's how I read it, no splitting a unit up but you could take multiple small units. Everyone seems to interpret it as you having to release all fanatics at once though

That's reassuring to know that you agree.

I think they have just skim read the wording (which as @Furious kindly points out is probably referring (even literally, let alone purposively) to a single unit of Fanatics, not multiple units within one host unit.

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Nico Lord Celestant

Nico

Posted
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What "nerf" are you referring to in regards to the battalion being dead? The fact that it is a compendium option?

The fact that it's an illegal battalion for matched play as the units it includes no longer exist (Goblin does not equal Grot as the Magenta FAQ indicates). This affects all* Destruction battalions prior to the Ironjawz book - they are all illegal - even for Greenskinz, who actually have a Start Collecting box.

I think the Verminus Clawpack has snuck through the net and is still legal, but whisper it quietly.

 *There might be an exception, but I doubt it.

The Eternal Conflagration

While on the topic, I'm 98% sure that the references to "Flamer" and "Flamers" in the two rules for new DoT The Eternal Conflagration must be intended as keywords "Flamer" and "Flamers" (and the plural would include the singular as is normal in the English language in this context). Notably, "Flamers" is not a unit name; and it is immediately followed by what is a unit name "Exalted Flamers of Tzeentch"; and the list of units in the consituent Battalion Warpflame Host correctly uses "Flamers of Tzeentch" - a unit name.

The Burning Chariot, Exalted Flamers and Flamers all have the keyword Flamer/Flamers. Interestingly, the Exalted Flamers have both Flamer and Exalted Flamers as keywords. The only reason for adding Flamer as a keyword would be for the purposes of a specific Warscroll buff (there are none) that works on Flamer, or a Battalion rule that works off the Flamer keyword, i.e. The Eternal Conflagration itself. 

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  • 7 months later...
Sheriff Lord Castellant

Sheriff

Posted
Posted

Anyone trying out a squig army with the squigboss as your general? 

I'm not sure if his command ability applies to squig hopper charge rerolls or just movement. If it doesn't then the hopper army is a terrible choice right?

Nice to be able to put 60 grot infantry in one unit though at least. 

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Ollie Grimwood Lord Celestant

Ollie Grimwood

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Sheriff said:

Anyone trying out a squig army with the squigboss as your general? 

I'm not sure if his command ability applies to squig hopper charge rerolls or just movement. If it doesn't then the hopper army is a terrible choice right?

Nice to be able to put 60 grot infantry in one unit though at least. 

It says move or run rolls so not charges. 

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Skeekrit Decimator

Skeekrit

Posted
Posted
On 06/10/2017 at 6:38 PM, Warboss Gorbolg said:

Is anyone running 1 or more units of 60 Grots?  60 sounds like overkill but I admit that I have no direct experience to draw from.  Also seems to get pretty expensive once you add in Fanatics.

I ran these before GHB17 - haven't been to an event since though. They were great if you trusted inspiring presence, but I did tend to hide my general as a Gitmob Grot unit champion. At 360 points before the change, and the same after they were great fun, and definitely caught people by surprise. Armed with Spears, and the maximum number of nets (9) mostly at the front. Good armour save, and massive foot print.

Most of this still applies in GHB17 although the increase in fanatics to 100 for 3 may mean you need to screen these a little more than I did.

 

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Sheriff Lord Castellant

Sheriff

Posted
Posted

I'm thinking forward to my 2nd army, probably Moonclan unless a new grot army is released in 2018. What I'm struggling to get my head around is the synergies between units. 

Seems like you either go for the infantry boss hero who synergizes with wound roll modifiers, or go squig hoppers for a movement-buff army (why bother when you can have spiders?).

So for the woundy build, as far as i can tell, the Grot Warboss General can buff any Moonclan unit for a a load of extra damage if they roll 6+ to wound. Guessing this is always a good thing on a Mangler or Colossal Squig thats about to run and charge, but really shines on a block of 60 grots who get +2 modifier to wound already, so double damage on 4+ instead of 6+. What other synergies have I missed for Moonclan? [Edit: Just noticed the Colossal Squig exists and synergizes bigly with wound rolls too.]

That all sounds great, having a loads of mortal wound and rendy damage  from throwaway front line units (squigs, manglers, fanatics), plus a load of woundy horde damage from the 60 grots ... but then what? Who grabs the objectives? Little units of hoppers? More grots? (I don't want to paint more than 60...)

And how does this squishy General survive? Hide him behind LOS scenery?

I'm just not feeling comfortable making the switch from spiders to squigs, but I'm sure it works, I just don't get it yet. 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Sheriff Lord Castellant

Sheriff

Posted
Posted

I currently play Spiderfang with minimal Moonclan grots as battleline, and thought I may as well expand on those guys for a second army as it is less time-consuming than a completely new army. I could also use the 100 grots in the spider army to mix things up. Moonclan seem to play more aggressively than my current cowards who are all about careful positioning and attacking clinically, so should be a fun change of play-style. 

Current assumption is that I'll have 100 grots, a mangler, 6 fanatics, 2 shamen, a collosal squig, and then the rest squigs. Turn 1 throw in the buffed collosal squig, move everything forward, then turn 2 buff the mangler and launch him in. then swarm the enemy ASAP. Then my boss will be dead but the remaining units will be fairly self-sufficient. I love the idea of throwing forward squig-bombs then just stabbing stuff to death carelessly with a massive mob of grots that aren't on 4 bravery for once (attacking in 3 ranks, wounding on re-rollable 3s, with double damage on 4+ wound rolls). 

That's my take on it so far but I'm sure it's wrong somehow...

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Sheriff Lord Castellant

Sheriff

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, b.rody said:

I love grots, and especially the moonclan Squigs.

I'd like to start building my first destruction/AoS army. What is a good place to start, and next steps? 

 

Thanks

Don't buy squig hoppers. Otherwise buy anything moonclan pretty much. Grots, grot general on foot, shaman, fanatics, squigs as a start. 

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Sheriff Lord Castellant

Sheriff

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, meet.the.doctor said:

I think this guy needs to shine here for a while:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/12/24/new-champion-revealed-fungoid-cave-shaman/

I am sure it means new battletome!

image.jpeg

Yeah often the little props and mini beasties on the bases are little versions of full models, so hopefully we can expect new squigs and whatever that thing on the staff is. 

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bsharitt Lord Celestant

bsharitt

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Warboss Gorbolg said:

I would love for a Moonclan battletome to be coming soon but I'm trying not to set my expectations high as the chaos herald  appears to be Slaves to Darkness and I doubt that they are next in line for Chaos after Nurgle.

I'm clinging to a little bit of hope since they are getting a new hero and got nothing in the GHB2017. My more far fetched hope is that Moonclan and Spiderfangs get combined into a new "forest goblin" type faction.

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bsharitt Lord Celestant

bsharitt

Posted
Posted

I went to go pick up some bases from the GW store that I had ordered online last week, and for got that I had already taken another step towards a Moonclan army and threw a pack of Moonclan Shamans on the order. Also picked up some Fanatics while I was there, which turned out to be even more lucky because the slots on the metal shamans were going to be a pain to cut off, but the plastic ones on the fanatics weren't so I borrowed a couple slotted bases for the shamans. Looking foward to adding mushroom head soon.

 

 

2017-12-26 17.59.21.jpg

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