Old WHFB player getting back to AoS with Beastmen

[3Xhume]

Hello All,

Im an oldtime wargamer who has been playing wargames with WHFB starting 6th edition (not really that old to some people i guessed). Stopped playing around mid of 8th edition because of work and playing other game system. I have a huge collection of Tomb Kings (that i found out recently AXED!), medium collection of Dwarfs, and quite small collection of Beastmen. Lets ignore the other two as this is Chaos forum.

So i have been reintroduced to fantasy or Age of Sigmar from a friend and gladly took the plunge again. I love beastmen models so this is why I decided to start AoS with Beastmen. I did my homework with the rules, youtube bat reps, and rebased all of my beastmen. Eager to play some fantasy battle again.

So my first game was against the said friend with horde of skaven (1000 pts). His list is all about rats (100 of them actually) and BSBs so he had inspiring presence to all of the units. I never planned to win the game, in fact fully expecting a lost as it was my first game of AoS. Learned some stuff like never forget command abilities and grinded through about 60 clanrats, I found AoS is in fact quite balanced. Although I received minor defeat, it was still a fun game which i didnt care losing.

The opposite was what i found with my second game. Against 1000 pts tomb king list below :

Tomb King

Liche Priest

10 Skellies X 2 unit

5 Tomb Guard

3 Sepulcher

Necrosphinx

 

Mine was :

Doombull

Malagor, dark omen

30 Gors

20 Bestigors

20 Ungor Raiders

Tuskgor Chariot

 

So he won the roll and gave me first turn. I ran everyone forward. His turn, all he did is move skellies slowly and full speed ahead with sphinx. Charged with sphinx to Bestigors (easy with the two highest dice from three rolled) and DECIMATED the unit (total 11 wounds). Retaliated with 7 bestigors and only did 1 wound (halving wounds rules from sphinx). The unit vanished because battleshock test (i rolled 6). Ok, this devastated me even more rather than the bestigor unit...

Ok, as wargamer expert, I tried to get a hold of myself and continue with what i had. I planned to shoot all arrows at sphinx with ungor raiders and roll two more direct damage spells from malagor. Should do a few more wounds that would weaken the sphinx. Rolled the initiative round and he won so double turn for him. Sphinx flew to malagor, charged, and decapitated him..... Third turn, Sphinx helped skellies in combat with gors. Thats it... Im devastated and found the game was not fun...

Okay i learned that AoS is so much monsterhammer and herohammer the hard way. In WHFB, you get ranks and combat resolution. AoS only battleshock from wounds. You either bring your own monster/artilleries or be in the receiving end of a monster.

Okay im better after telling my devastating defeat and would like some suggestion for good monsters of chaos / anti monsters unit. Ghorgons may be the best but would like to have other opinions too.

What do you think is best to grow my beastmen army?

 

P.S. Last experience really encouraged me to play tomb kings again with two necrosphinxes because not a lot who really have two sphinx as they are no longer available from GW. At least my last opponent dont have two. <evil grin>

[Taketheskull]

I'd be looking to build the army around Ghorgons and Minotards, they are no longer the liabilities they were in 8th.

I always find it best to run at least 2 different armies, in any given wargaming system, as it staves off burn out.

[Crispen]

You do still get a bonus to your bravery for each lot of 10 dudes you have in a unit.

I think a wargor standard bearer might help you out a bit (+1 to wound is pretty sweet). 

When using bestigor I've not found them that great, they don't seem to benefit from the synergies with the beastlord, or wargor standard bearer. I've not played overly competitive games, but I found 30 gor supported by wargor and beastlord to be pretty powerful with a successful mayhem roll and even better if the beastlord manages to get his command ability off (though not really crucial or needed. Mine hides behind the gor to provide the +1 for mayhem roll).

If all goes well a unit with double hand weapons is getting 2 attacks each hitting on 2s re-rolling ones and wounding on 2s all for a relatively cheap price point.

I also think that judging by what I've read and seen tomb kings might be a top tier army and beastmen not so much. 

Hope that helps!

[Iradekhorne]

The necroesphinx is cheat, even with that price.

You can go with a gorgon and giant, probably theese 2 kill him.

Other option is go for units of 10 ungors and sacrifice them and take objectives (play general handsbook scenarios) 

And you have a third but dirty option. Play 3x jabbersytches. they are only 20 points more than the necrospynx, they fly and the necrosphinx need roll 3 times a dice, and if anyone of them is a 6 the sphinx cant attack before his next hero phase. (arround 50% chance).

Maybye 3 units of doombull with the batillion can kill him well too but u need use someting to atract him at chargue point (10 ungors or some). Bcause he need chargue for his skill.

[3Xhume]

Thanks for the responses.

@Taketheskull Err..... Isnt bullgores and doombulls count as one army: beastmen? I may try to include some chaos mortals like chaos knights and varanguard. What do you think? Go for heavy hitter cavs or just go with monsters?

@Crispen Yeah i would like to try that. havent got the chance to make it work with only two games under my belt.

@Iradekhorne I dont get it... How can you hold a sphinx with 10 ungors? one turn of combat and they are wiped out

[3Xhume]

btw, i havent listed my beastmen (Chaos) models. Maybe it will help with army development advises :

1 doombull

1 bray shaman

1 kazhrak the one eye

1 malagor, dark omen

1 wargor battle standard

40 Gors unbuilt with 2 full command set (maybe hws or two gor blades)

30 ungors unbuilt (maybe raiders or spears ungor)

20 Bestigors

1 Tuskgor Chariot

6 Harpies

6 Furies

 

I think thats it.

[Andreas]

41 minutes ago, 3Xhume said:

 

Build the Wildstalder Brayherd!

It lets you ambush and you get plus 1 attack close to your beastlord.

1 Bestlord (you could run Kazhrak or use him as a normal one)

1-2 Bray Shamans (run malagor as a second bray shaman)

20 Bestigors

1 Tuskgor Chariot

20 Gors

10 Gors (at some point you should add more gors)

10 Gors

10 ungors (probably raiders)

10 ungors (probably raiders)

10 ungors (probably raiders)

10 ungors (you need to buy 10 more for the formation)

After that you add the battle standard, doombull etc.. to get to 2000pt if that is the goal.

Going forward to make the list stronger and would recomend another unit of 20 Bestigors, more gors and maybe a jabberslythe (or two).

Use the jabberslythe to take out/cripple the necrosphinx or just throw small units of ungors/gors at him to keep him in place.

[Iradekhorne]

4 hours ago, 3Xhume said:

Thanks for the responses.

@Iradekhorne I dont get it... How can you hold a sphinx with 10 ungors? one turn of combat and they are wiped out

Yes! the Necrospync NEED charge, if you want chargue to them you need use they as bait. The ungors cost 60 points, but the ungors raiders can shoot a bit too (but 80 points, more expensive). The problem here is the necrospynx can fly, then you need have your charging units close to the bait unit, without giving space to the necrospynx (dont cry for this units xD).

The necrospynx charge to them, killing them yes, but she only kill 60-80 points and remain standing to your charge.

 

See, in that case the necro need spend 1 turn on your ungors, because she dont have space to try charge the bullgor, and because the necrospynx fly, you need use the terrain and ungor units to do this.

ok The necro chargue and kill your ungors, thats when doubleturn is important, try to give him the turn to avoid this situation, if they have anyway you can put 2x units of 10 one after other to avoid the chargue to your bullgors(or monster or whathever you use to kill the necro).

Then if you did well you chargue them.

The point of build units of 10 ungors are 2.

First, some cheap bodys, good for the general handbook matched play scenarios.

And the second is secure your chargues and avoid enemy chargues using them as sacrifices xD.

I use marauders to this, because the warhounds cost is ridiculous

[Dolomedes]

In 1000 point games, beastmen are nothing to shout home about. If you are going to play a brayherd, you pretty much need to play the wildstalker formation. This is incredibly difficult for 1000 points.

I play my brayherd several times a week at the moment and have done for a fair few months now, and the greatest strengths honestly come from just going full on horde.

'It's not a proper army if you don't have 100 models in it' is a favourtie line in my local store.

Bestigors are way too pricey for 1000 point games, I only field them in 1500+ games. If properly buffed and synergised, ungors and gors wreck face. Get a BSB, a shaman and a Beastlord behind a 30 man block of mystic shielded inspiring presenced gors and watch them down anything that charges them. If it's something particularly nasty, bring enough guys so you can screen and redirect. Put a line of 30 ungor spearmen behind your gors and you have a ridiculously strong centre, capable of stopping that pesky sphinx, when properly synergised. 

Odds are you're going to get a charge in before your opponent playing with beastmen, maximising the attack potential by using superior movement to set up wide and surround (Jaws of the beast!) is your prime offensive tactic. Going head on, you really won't win much, especially against some of the more elite armoured armies. Your weight of attacks is the way forward, don't forget the 4 inch pile in.

Screening is very important, knowing when to be defensive and using 10 man chaff units or chariots to cover yourself is a key to success. Chariots are great at stopping things get a superior set up on you, as they can engage so quickly, and last quite well. By the time they die, hopefully you will have the opponents centre cracked by double enveloping using ambush rules and shooting. Pull apart their line with ambushes and quick strikes, tie up their nastier units with chaff so you can eliminate what you want. The denied flank tactic works incredibly well with beastmen, as you can envelop using an ambush as well as build a strong flank. If you're lucky you can flank enemy units really nicely with chariots geting a bit more punch into an enemy unit.

Ungor raiders are awesome in 30 man blocks too, if you have 30 it's quite easy to set up a hitting on 3+ rerolling 1s and 2s unit that's pumping out 11-15 wounds a turn, after running. One of the chaos allegiances better shooting units, very capable and if you run wildstalker brayherd you could ambush them and use it as an effective alpha strike.

Beastmen are great fun to play, I enjoy them immensely, because they are so different to the other armies of AOS. It's all about ambush and maneuver tactics, but anyone who used to play Beastmen in 8th will be well used to that already.

 

[Goodwin]

Some solid advice here.  I'll just add to make sure you don't get too zealous with that long ass operational range the Beasts have.  You can sometimes end up with a Turn 1 charge.  Careful of doing this though, as you may end up outside of the range of your heroes.  Whether its Wildstalker and/or Anarchy and Mayhem and/or Command Abilities/BSB, you don't want to let your boys get out ahead of those tasty buffs.  I did this a few weeks back and paaaaid for it.  Got a Turn 1 charge with a unit or two, but with no support from the heroes, my poor Gors bit it!

Careful of going too hardcore in the Ambushing if you are going to do Wildstalker (which you should!).  That 9" requirement can be rough if you start ambushing 20+ gor units.  However, since you can charge after Ambushing in, you can also pull off nasty surprises on your opponents.

Goodluck, make us proud!

[3Xhume]

Thanks All, good stuff shared here. Including @Iradekhorne @Dolomedes @Goodwin advises. From here, i can assume beastmen battalion gets better with bigger games and not the best in smaller games. I do agree with Goodwin best, ambusher without actual hitting power is not going to do much. Beastmen does need their character to buff the army and brayherd character buffs are really good like 3" extra movement from bray shaman and +1 to hit from beastlord and +1 to wound from battle standard bearer. Formations at their best when all three combined.

 

btw anyone tried Kazhrak, the one eye? is retreat and charge benefiting for brayherd units ? What tactics actually works for him?

[cranect]

I think khazrak would be very useful I just haven't used him yet. I just think that gorthor makes a better general with the +1 to hit, run, and charge. Its just super useful. I do think it is best to stick to brayherd with the occasional other monster or warherd unit or go pure warherd since they really need all the points they can get because they are expensive.

[foolsama]

I faced down Bullgors the other night and got *destroyed*. He had 2 units of 6 Bullgors, one unit of 9, a doombull and a gorgon(sp?). There's a formation that allows them to bloodgreed twice, and I was Order so he was greeding on 5s instead of 6s. Bullgors are 4-wound models with 5+saves, but more importantly, -2 rend 3 damage!! You get 3 of them for 180! Not even my Brutes can put out that much damage (much less take it). They move 7", and then charge, and the formation gave them +1 to charge for every enemy unit within a range.... I don't think I mentioned yet that I had a fully buffed up unit of 40 Saurus Warriors that were prepared to do some damage. He killed 33 of them on the charge.

[cranect]

Just to help you for next time. The bullgors get bloodgreed on 6s to wound and the doombulls command ability gives them +1 to wound. They probably also picked the +1 to hit order. The formation gives 2 attacks instead of one on bloodgreed and it gives a few mortal wounds on the charge. The banner bearer gives +1 bravery for enemy units within 12 and the drummer gives +1 to charge for enemy units within 12. Hopefully that helps you for next time.

[Iradekhorne]

A friend played vs this formation with free people, two units of 6 and one of 9. He used 4 units of 10 fregguild guards as sacrifice and killed all burgors on two shooting phases with 30 handguners and 30 crossbowmen.  obiusley he lost all the 40 freeguild guards but the guards gived them the necesary time. as i sayd he used that strategy but instead of countercharge he shooted him.

All have counters xD. anyway i think a unit of 6 bullgors (360 points) obliterate the necrospynx. 

6 bullgors charguing, ewith the command hability of give him +1 to hit have 12 atacks hiting on 3+

then 9 atacks pass woinding on 3.

thath was 6 atacks wit 3 dmg with -2 rend, then the spynx save one of them.

the spynx get 15 wounds, halfing them to up was 8 wounds.

If you play 2 units of 6 bullgors you obliterate him for sure

[cranect]

with the command trait to add +1 to hit and the doombulls command trait for +1 to wound it gets even better too. Hit on 3s wound on 2s with 5+s giving an extra attack.

The free people there look fairly intimidating. Assuming they deploy the screen correctly they should wipe the bullgors out easily. If they do it incorrectly then it could end poorly for them.