AoS 4 - Slaves to Darkness Discussion

[Grimrock]

In the tradition of old I figured I should create a general thread for discussion on the latest Slaves to Darkness book. This is a place to talk tactics, list building, painting, and just general nonsense about the despoilers of the mortal realms. 

[Grimrock]

Full review with images is up on the honest wargamer here:

Anybody have any thoughts on the changes? I'm not a huge fan of the new battle traits and losing the eye of the gods on units and unique characters is a big hit, but the banners are really nice. Pledging seems a little weaker as well, the buffs are great but losing blanket -1 to wound hurts a bit. Still we were doing pretty well so a couple nerfs isn't so bad and there are still a ton of top tier options assuming we don't get many point changes. 

For lists I'm interested in trying out a big block of warriors with the khorne banner. 4 attacks a piece on a held objective with a 3+/2+/-1 and Crit auto wound is pretty terrifying. Having the slaanesh banner on a 10 man knights and pledging a 6 man varanguard turn 1 is a pretty scary and extremely consistent alpha strike as well. Even the undivided banner is interesting although a touch worse as it doesn't come with a pledge built in, but that does leave your list more flexible. 

 

[Iradekhorne]

In one hand, im pretty disapointed with the book.

Unique characters have zero army rules. No pledge, no eye of the gods for him. That mean archaon is weaker, and is SO expensive. I expect less than 800 points for him... also no mark... unique characters loose -1 to wound to heros and monsters. (Archaon cant go to 2+/2+ anymore, but belakor too).

We also don't start with the units marked. The khorne and slaanesh pledge are good but... we also can't do aditionally pledges, then the litle units in te army are significally weaker because we are not going to pledge them.

On the other hand, the only positive thing is we can mark darkoath marauders and do smting. 10 darkoath riders with broadswords can do some hit stuff, and we can give back 5 if they die.

Buuut... is a huge nerf. With this book we are going to have this rules for 3 years and is one of the first books of the edition.

Be prepared to have hard times this incoming years xD.

I love archaon, but with that rules, if is isn't 800 or less he's going to win the keyword SHOWCASE

 

Edited November 24 by Iradekhorne

[Grimrock]

Oof, yeah I didn't realize the pledging was non-unique as well. It does seem like named characters have taken a pretty big hit but hopefully that's in the interest of internal balance. Archaon has always been a balance problem because he's just this huge block of stats that takes any buffs exceptionally well, so now that there are next to no buffs maybe he can get a little cheaper as a result. Like you said somewhere in the mid/low 700's feels about right. Probably won't start out that way but just like the glottkin last edition I think we'll see some regular point drops. 

That's the nice thing about the changes though, everything is still thematic enough and mechanically engaging that most issues can be fixed with point tweaks. I expect the first 6 months to be a little rough as they probably won't change much from the index points, but after enough drops we can be in a pretty decent spot. 

[Paladin of Khorne]

I wasn’t too thrilled with the changes at first; seemed like we lost too much too soon into the edition. I was having fun marking lots of units. 
 

I’ve come around on the adjustment though. I like how I don’t need to know what to mark my units units as going into every game. I can adjust on the fly as needed. I also like not having to model marked units as all my guys were becoming nurgle or khorne anyways before the change. 
 

I only wish our traits got a glow up but I’m willing to be open minded here. 

[Grimrock]

Points are available on the website, Archaon hasn't changed much but there are some surprising tweaks otherwise. I figured they'd bump up the points for some of the cheaper heroes to account for possible apotheosis, but it looks like a number of them have had some pretty decent drops including most of the unique heroes. Seems GW is actually trying to compensate for the loss of abilities which is surprising. 

Most of my lists haven't changed very much since the points on warriors/knights/chosen/varanguard haven't changed, but I do think the changes to the Chaos Lord and Exalted Hero are legitimately interesting. The Exalted was already intriguing and getting a 20 point drop has me even considering two in a list. Also the chariot going down to 80 is making it look like a decent option for grabbing battle tactics. I'll probably be swapping out my raptoryx for it now and I'm even considering swapping out my furies for it. 

[MitGas]

Does anyone know what the new regiments of renown cost points-wise?

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

I'm making an investment in the Slaves. I've got lots of Chaos Warriors, a few Knights, Marauders, and assorted hero models all painted up (plus a Warshrine and Sorcerer on Manicure, but let's not go there...) I've just ordered another 5 Chaos Knights and a Daemon Prince. Altogether more than enough to field 2000 points. Im contemplating some Varanguard, too. Everything will be getting the Mark of Slaanesh, needless to say! 

[Grimrock]

On 11/27/2024 at 3:44 PM, MitGas said:

Does anyone know what the new regiments of renown cost points-wise?

Hopefully we should know soon when the app updates, I'm curious to see if they match the book points or if there's a discount. The Daemon Prince one is interesting for Nurgle because most of their heroes don't hit particularly hard in combat and combining his fight first rule with a witherstave gives you two chances at that 4+. 290 is pretty expensive though so I'm hoping it'll be more like 250ish. 

 

12 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

I'm making an investment in the Slaves. I've got lots of Chaos Warriors, a few Knights, Marauders, and assorted hero models all painted up (plus a Warshrine and Sorcerer on Manicure, but let's not go there...) I've just ordered another 5 Chaos Knights and a Daemon Prince. Altogether more than enough to field 2000 points. Im contemplating some Varanguard, too. Everything will be getting the Mark of Slaanesh, needless to say! 

I've always shied away from doing conversions for marks on my units, but I think with the changes in this book it's a little more interesting. Since you can only start with a prince and one unit with a banner marked the scope is a lot more manageable, and with so many good god specific kits out these days the conversions should be pretty manageable. A few bits from the putrid blightkings or the painbringer/twin soul kits and a special scheme and you'd have a really killer looking unit.

[MitGas]

2 minutes ago, Grimrock said:

Hopefully we should know soon when the app updates, I'm curious to see if they match the book points or if there's a discount. The Daemon Prince one is interesting for Nurgle because most of their heroes don't hit particularly hard in combat and combining his fight first rule with a witherstave gives you two chances at that 4+. 290 is pretty expensive though so I'm hoping it'll be more like 250ish. 

 

I've always shied away from doing conversions for marks on my units, but I think with the changes in this book it's a little more interesting. Since you can only start with a prince and one unit with a banner marked the scope is a lot more manageable, and with so many good god specific kits out these days the conversions should be pretty manageable. A few bits from the putrid blightkings or the painbringer/twin soul kits and a special scheme and you'd have a really killer looking unit.

Ah, cool, thanks for letting me know. I hope the DP will be a good addition (with a decent point cost) to your force! 🙏

[MitGas]

12 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

Sorcerer on Manicure

That‘s Slaanesh for you. 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

6 hours ago, MitGas said:

That‘s Slaanesh for you. 

Freudian slip of all time, there! 

[Lord Krungharr]

I got so bored in the previous tome that I abandoned StD altogether for a time.  The reward system of the faction pack was exciting again, as you had something to look forward to by killing enemies (like Blood Tithe!).  And it compensated for loss of models by making them more deadly (since we don't have model recursion this was pretty big).  They should have kept that, maybe made it just D3 effects with 1: Nothing 2: +1 to hit 3:+1 rend, and toned down the Marks by making units in regiments only able to Marked like the Hero of the regiment they were in.  They could also say 0-1 on the Chosen and Varanguard (which they should probably do for many super elite units in the game like Longstrikes).

The fancy banners are nice, but this just feels so boring.  The Apotheosis thing is a lottery that I just don't care about winning.  The terrain piece is still utter garbage (thankfully mine can double as a pizza oven in Chaos Fyreslayers or Skull Altar in Khorne Chorfs).  Archaon does jack squat to synergize with anyone despite being the ultimate leader of all Chaos...and still 200 points too many; Slayer of Kings remains but also a lottery that usually can't happen, and the Eye of Ed Sheerian is useful but not THAT useful.    

I think an army with just Belakor and however many Furies would actually do quite well since 2/3 of the Furies just can't get stuck in combat.  We'll for sure see big blobs of Warriors and Knights and Chosen for the banners.  Varanguard seem perhaps better suited to flank pests at MSU now without the Marks and EOTG to boost them as they go (and mine have gotten whooped hard many games in a row anyways, but they've seen some very fickle dice lately).  No shrine, grinder, or manticores SUCKS, and the other monsters/beasts are pretty terrible and overcosted as well.  Why does the Karka-Lord now buff only infantry despite being a cavalry lord?!?!  Really not happy with the book after what was a really good Faction Pack.

 To start after the book arrives, I'm just running stupid StD with Archaon/Bullakor/2 Daemon Princes and a Gorebeast Chariot.

[Grimrock]

3 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I got so bored in the previous tome that I abandoned StD altogether for a time.  The reward system of the faction pack was exciting again, as you had something to look forward to by killing enemies (like Blood Tithe!).  And it compensated for loss of models by making them more deadly (since we don't have model recursion this was pretty big).  They should have kept that, maybe made it just D3 effects with 1: Nothing 2: +1 to hit 3:+1 rend, and toned down the Marks by making units in regiments only able to Marked like the Hero of the regiment they were in.  They could also say 0-1 on the Chosen and Varanguard (which they should probably do for many super elite units in the game like Longstrikes).

The fancy banners are nice, but this just feels so boring.  The Apotheosis thing is a lottery that I just don't care about winning.  The terrain piece is still utter garbage (thankfully mine can double as a pizza oven in Chaos Fyreslayers or Skull Altar in Khorne Chorfs).  Archaon does jack squat to synergize with anyone despite being the ultimate leader of all Chaos...and still 200 points too many; Slayer of Kings remains but also a lottery that usually can't happen, and the Eye of Ed Sheerian is useful but not THAT useful.    

Yeah that's fair, the biggest problem I've had is finding a list to get excited to play. Like everything still looks solid enough, but it's all kinda boring. Belakor is really strong but still kind of a NPE and I don't really love doing that to my opponent. Same with varanguard.  Outside of them most of the book is just kind of... boringly good. Like they're just big lumps of stats that will fight the battle slowly, methodically, and effectively. I have a few lists that I think will be effective but I'm not sure if they'll actually be fun or not. Need to try them out though, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

5 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Like they're just big lumps of stats that will fight the battle slowly, methodically, and effectively.

This is kinda what appeals to me! As a Hedonites player, I'm used to having to do clever things to keep myself in the game. Playing with an army that's a big spiky club rather than a delicate rapier sounds like fun! 

[Lord Krungharr]

On 12/1/2024 at 3:18 AM, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

This is kinda what appeals to me! As a Hedonites player, I'm used to having to do clever things to keep myself in the game. Playing with an army that's a big spiky club rather than a delicate rapier sounds like fun! 

That's good take on it.  Just a different playstyle for sure (though there might be some secret recipe for interesting mayhem somewhere somehow?!?).  Guess if I go play Idoneth and Chaos Fyreslayers for a while, then Slaves to Chorfness can be my refreshing palette cleanser.  But I still have my League going with 2 more games to do with the Faction Pack, so I'm going with Archaon/Bullakor/6 Varanguard to finish it out.  The only army I can think of that can just run 3 units. YOLO!

[Grimrock]

I've been trying to build up some lists to see if I can come up with something exciting. I think I've settled on this for a first list to try out:

Chaos Lord
- Favoured of the Pantheon
Exalted Hero of Chaos
20 Chaos Warriors
- Khorne banner
5 Chaos Chosen

Gaunt Summoner
Chaos Chariot
6 Chaos Furies

Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount
- General, Conquerors Crown
10 Chaos Knights
Exalted Hero of Chaos

It's a bit janky, but it could be fun. Chaos warriors with the Khorne banner go up to 4 attacks a piece at 3+/2+/-1/1 on objectives you control, which is absolutely bonkers especially considering their defensive stats. Exalted heroes can also be shockingly killy for 100 points and I think it'd be fun to have the two of them and the lord forming a kind of goon squad. They could hang out near the warriors to ward off/kill any monsters since the opponent will probably need one to actually take the warriors out. Having an exalted hero randomly pledge to slaanesh and come out of nowhere to 3d6 charge a backline hero could also be hilarious. Then the rest is just sort of go-to elements to play the game effectively in 4th edition. Has anyone tried a list out yet with the new book?

[Lord Krungharr]

That looks to be a real solid army, plenty of speed and bodies to nab objectives and positional tactics, with the hammers and anvils to keep things occupied.  Good tools in the box with the Gaunt Summoner and Mounted Lord.  Points left to take a Gorbeast Chariot over the regular one?  Just wondering, as their special Power Through seems juicy, especially with the tome Slaanesh Pledge launching them into a corner to get back near the soft feeble support heroes.

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

That looks to be a real solid army, plenty of speed and bodies to nab objectives and positional tactics, with the hammers and anvils to keep things occupied.  Good tools in the box with the Gaunt Summoner and Mounted Lord.  Points left to take a Gorbeast Chariot over the regular one?  Just wondering, as their special Power Through seems juicy, especially with the tome Slaanesh Pledge launching them into a corner to get back near the soft feeble support heroes.

If I've got the points right it's 1990, so just shy of being able to use a gorebeast. Weirdly I don't think I'd want to change it even if I had the points though, the chariot is primarily there for doing battle tactics and the extra inch could come in clutch for that. Plus I kind of like the impact hits from the standard chariot over the gorebeast. Both abilities result in an extra d3 mortal wounds on turns you charge, but the chariot happens before attacks thereby reducing returning damage and the gorebeast needs to spend a CP to get access to their ability whereas the chariot gets it for free. Really the biggest difference is the improved attacks from the gorebeast but with the 4+/4+/- statline you're not likely to get anything through anyway. If they drop the points on the gorebeast or any other part of the list then it might be worth trying out though, with how similar the two units are I could definitely see the gorebeast going to 90. 

[Lord Krungharr]

2 hours ago, Grimrock said:

If I've got the points right it's 1990, so just shy of being able to use a gorebeast. Weirdly I don't think I'd want to change it even if I had the points though, the chariot is primarily there for doing battle tactics and the extra inch could come in clutch for that. Plus I kind of like the impact hits from the standard chariot over the gorebeast. Both abilities result in an extra d3 mortal wounds on turns you charge, but the chariot happens before attacks thereby reducing returning damage and the gorebeast needs to spend a CP to get access to their ability whereas the chariot gets it for free. Really the biggest difference is the improved attacks from the gorebeast but with the 4+/4+/- statline you're not likely to get anything through anyway. If they drop the points on the gorebeast or any other part of the list then it might be worth trying out though, with how similar the two units are I could definitely see the gorebeast going to 90. 

Excellent points on the chariot.  I'm convinced.  I think they dropped the regular to 80 and the Gorebeast to 100 IIRC.  But yeah, the gorebeast whiffs hard most of the time, and what's with the no rend?!?  And the greatblade hitting on 4s is super lame too.  Speed though, that's always good.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

A first list that I've put together from what I've got... 

Regiment 1:

Daemon Prince

10 Chaos Knights 

 

Regiment 2:

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Exalted Hero of Chaos

20 Chaos Warriors

 

Regiment 3:

Chaos Warshrine 

5 Chaos Chosen 

 

I know the Warshrine is a bit naff, but it's already painted and and I like the model! Any other thoughts? 

[Grimrock]

3 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

A first list that I've put together from what I've got... 

Regiment 1:

Daemon Prince

10 Chaos Knights 

 

Regiment 2:

Chaos Sorcerer Lord

Exalted Hero of Chaos

20 Chaos Warriors

 

Regiment 3:

Chaos Warshrine 

5 Chaos Chosen 

 

I know the Warshrine is a bit naff, but it's already painted and and I like the model! Any other thoughts? 

Actually I hadn't realized that the Warshrine was viewable yet, it doesn't look half bad really. Now that the prayers are mark agnostic again there's some decent flexibility and all of them are decent. I'm not sure, but I believe it's also one of the only ways to trigger the 5+ clause in the Pledge to Nurgle as the unit will have a 6+ from the shrine. I think I'll have to give it a shot at some point. I could fit him into my list above by replacing the Chaos Lord on Steed with him and swapping out the Chosen for Ogroid Theridons. 

For your list I think it looks solid, no real complaints. If I'm correct on the points I think you have an extra 80, so maybe a chariot?

[Grimrock]

On 11/27/2024 at 3:44 PM, MitGas said:

Does anyone know what the new regiments of renown cost points-wise?

Looks like the regiment with Lord on steed, knights and warriors is 570 points. Decent discount from the book cost. Daemon Prince is 270, not as cheap as I wanted but maybe survivable. 

[MitGas]

2 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Looks like the regiment with Lord on steed, knights and warriors is 570 points. Decent discount from the book cost. Daemon Prince is 270, not as cheap as I wanted but maybe survivable. 

Thanks man, you‘re a true friend! 570 is a really decent price overall for a solid core. 👌

 

270 seems too high for a DP indeed. A few points more and you get really strong stuff. 
 

All in all I‘m happy with these tho - it‘s not about getting the best deals ingame, it‘s about using cool minis for me. Although the CW regiment feels like a pretty decent deal overall.