GW’s CEO raises own pay to 2 mio GBP

[JackStreicher]

These news get way too little attention.

GW‘s workers are underpaid, the product‘s price is inflated and ofc the CEO & CFO decide to raise their absurd pay to 150% of its former level. A job any AI language model can perform better.

The shareholders (21%) voted against it, but it doesn’t force his hand, he just „considers“ the vote.

It‘s a disgusting practice while the people actually producing the value of GW’s goods (artists, factory workers, game designers) are the ones benefiting the least.

So next time you are wondering or discussing why there’s another price increase: They somehow have to meet the needs of their CEO and CFO which burn money at the top like a wood furnace.

 

 

Edited September 24 by JackStreicher

[Chikout]

While I  completely agree that CEO pay and bonuses are way too high, there's  some inaccurate info here. Public companies have a renumeration policy which sets out how much of a bonus and executive can receive. This policy was voted on in 2021. There is a committee who decides how much of a bonus executives get each year. The CEO isn't on this committee. 

GW had their best year ever so the CEO got the maximum bonus of 150%. 

The sad thing about this is that it's completely normal across all publicly traded companies. GW even point out that their pay for executives is 'unfortunately' lower than average for a FTSE 250 company. 

I'm almost a little worried that the revolt was actually the other way. Some shareholders see a massive salary for the CEO as a sign of a healthy company. 

I'm really glad there was a shareholder revolt about this. I just wish that would happen in other companies with even more ridiculous salaries for CEOs. The CEO of Alphabet was payed $226 million last year. 

Again I want to emphasize that GW salary discrepancy between executives and regular staff is terrible but unfortunately it is a universal problem that's only getting worse. 

 

[JackStreicher]

6 hours ago, Chikout said:

Again I want to emphasize that GW salary discrepancy between executives and regular staff is terrible but unfortunately it is a universal problem that's only getting worse. 

Exactly.

This meme goes a step further and is also fitting though in a more broadly political sense (please remove if inappropriate - sadly no spoiler tags for mobile)

 

Edited September 24 by JackStreicher

[MitGas]

13 hours ago, Chikout said:

I'm really glad there was a shareholder revolt about this. I just wish that would happen in other companies with even more ridiculous salaries for CEOs. The CEO of Alphabet was payed $226 million last year. 

There's a reason why many believe that capitalism will die - as a self-perpetrating system it starts to bring society to a point where outside of a select few nobody will own anything. Only huge drawbacks can reset it, think war and the like. Else we'll end up right where sci-fi writers of the past envisioned us to end up 40+ years ago - people working endlessly to return to small flats, which they just rent.

Not saying communism works, it doesn't, but capitalism in its recent state clearly is starting to lose its "best system so far"-card as well.

I disagree with the above meme though. Foreigners taking jobs is not why people are worried about foreigners. But that's a very different topic anyways.

Either way, back when capitalism really worked, the boss of a company perhaps earned 10 times as much as his workers. Nowadays, it's often around 100(!) times. (Basic) employees need to be much better compensated. Frankly, working a normal job is the dumbest thing one can do as people don't get enough. Our grandparents (where often only one parent worked) could earn a house, our parents perhaps a flat, we are lucky if we can rent a decent flat. So many things come together, all not really part of the discussion, like why people become parents later and later or have no children at all... but it's the cost of living and grabby wages.

In regards to GW I can only say that all the creative minds there are what make me buy GW products. A CEO or CFO, whether good or bad, has zero influence outside of giving them enough to work with and be creative. I'd like to see GW finally paying good wages. They can afford it, the people working there deserve it and I'm sick of companies paying crab for the privilege of working for them - I see the same bullsheet from the big ad agencies. Yes, working for GW is for many a dream job but it should still be compensated fairly. 

[Sarouan]

16 hours ago, MitGas said:

I disagree with the above meme though. Foreigners taking jobs is not why people are worried about foreigners. But that's a very different topic anyways.

The meme is more about the rich people using this as a distraction from the workers to keep them from looking at the plate overfilling with cookies and the fact that one person doesn't need them all for himself.

As for the "news" not getting enough attention...it's a question of political stance. It's more about using GW for your own personnal point of view and winning some kind of argument...while it's not with this kind of thread that you will fix the roots of it. Convinced ones don't need it, they're already agreeing with you : and those who don't...just won't care. It's all about preaching for your own church.

Edited September 25 by Sarouan

[MitGas]

12 minutes ago, Sarouan said:

The meme is more about the rich people using this as a distraction from the workers to keep them from looking at the plate overfilling with cookies and the fact that one person doesn't need them all for himself.

As for the "news" not getting enough attention...it's a question of political stance. It's more about using GW for your own personnal point of view and winning some kind of argument...while it's not with this kind of thread that you will fix the roots of it. Convinced ones don't need it, they're already agreeing with you : and those who don't...just won't care. It's all about preaching for your own church.

I find the argument/joke illustrated is usually made by left politicians purposefully misinterpreting the fears of people voting right parties just to make them look like fools. I definitely heard it over here. But no normal person has anything against hard-working foreigners. There are very interesting statistics regarding the issue, I think the official numbers from Sweden are eye-opening. But it's irrelevant. Left, right, they're all trash. If they weren't, they'd manage to do what is necessary and you know, work together on solutions instead of using their time to attack their political opponents... which is kinda the point of a democracy. But I'll stop, I don't wanna poison the main discussion with politics. I'm just disappointed that so many politicians lack integrity, that goes for all parts of the spectrum.

I do agree with you that repeating personal beliefs is basically useless and won't change things - I just find it important to state opinions. I might learn from you and vice versa, who knows. Or we don't, that's fine as well We live in times where political views are getting more and more extreme, the healthy middle kinda vanishes. That gets reflected by income - too many earn too little, few earn "too much". 

Either way, I think that questions like these will become much more prominent in the near future and frankly I'm shocked that since a couple of years many diligent people struggle with daily expenses. It's all about fairness. Money is cool and all but people need enough to live without having to worry that butter gets more expensive again and stuff like that. One doesn't need to be rich to be happy but having not enough money is an existential threat. One, in order to avoid, we go to work for. Huge companies always flash their morals and how good they are but they aren't even fair to the people working for them. it's hypocritical.

[Neverchosen]

Nice choice of image because with these types of practices I will need to start selling my bones to pay the tithe of this hobby soon enough.

 

Now if that money went to the people whose hard labour produced the hobby I loved I would actually be satisfied and be more willing to toss 'em a bone.

[Sarouan]

3 hours ago, Neverchosen said:

Now if that money went to the people whose hard labour produced the hobby I loved I would actually be satisfied and be more willing to toss 'em a bone.

I doubt that. I feel like the point of this thread is to use that info while purposefully not mentionning the rest that is done for the company employees. It gives all those convinced GW is an evil company more reason to be comforted in that choice - like using .stl files of so-called "proxies" of GW miniatures or following another company  (even if they also close their eyes about the same shady practices at that one because "they're a small business, they are the "good" ones").

Even if GW was the fairest corporation of all, but still had to keep their prices high for production...people will still find excuses to hate them because they still wouldn't fit their own political views (that aren't necessarily left-leaned, by the way...).

Edited September 25 by Sarouan

[Neverchosen]

32 minutes ago, Sarouan said:

I doubt that. I feel like the point of this thread is to use that info while purposefully not mentionning the rest that is done for the company employees. It gives all those convinced GW is an evil company more reason to be comforted in that choice - like using .stl files of so-called "proxies" of GW miniatures or following another company  (even if they also close their eyes about the same shady practices at that one because "they're a small business, they are the "good" ones").

Even if GW was the fairest corporation of all, but still had to keep their prices high for production...people will still find excuses to hate them because they still wouldn't fit their own political views (that aren't necessarily left-leaned, by the way...).

Well the article does indicate that 20% of shareholders voted against this, also a quick google search shows that the average Games Workshop employee does not make a living wage in my country. Not to get too deeply into larger management issues from former staff and creatives that don't paint the company in the most positive light. However, you are correct it is possible that they are treated relatively well by corporate, @JackStreicher do you happen to know if Kevin Rountree has given staff a pizza party this quarter? 

All of this is to say that I can like a company's product and dislike the practices of the company. 

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, Sarouan said:

I feel like the point of this thread is to use that info while purposefully not mentionning the rest that is done for the company employees.

 

[pnkdth]

30 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

All of this is to say that I can like a company's product and dislike the practices of the company. 

That is where I sit.

I left video games behind because I had enough of their nonsense, and I am nearly there with GW because they seem to enjoy copying the worst aspects of that industry. There was a time when I was super excited to start up a new project, be it KT/WC/AoS/40k, just do smaller projects. All these things they keep doing eventually piles up (for some that's literally true as their piles of plastic ends up being unsupported). I still very much appreciate the creative effort in maintaining their various systems, lore, and so on. However, I learnt that you get what you give so have decided to give a lot less to GW specifically.

Unfortunately though, I think the cynics are right on this one. There's no reason for GW to change because there are neither consequences or accountability. Then again the notion of being too big to fail doesn't always prove to be accurate.

Edited September 25 by pnkdth

[JackStreicher]

@Sarouan

Not at all. have a conversation with Rob (honest wargamer) or listen to podcasts with former employees: The bonuses don’t do much at all. It’s even more bitter when you realize that lots of employees need those bonuses to survive.

It‘s honestly not a lot of research required to see that there’s quite sth. wrong.

If you happen to know what else except for bonuses they do for their employees, let us know.

I know that you have blind faith in GW, I just wonder why? Every bit of research doesn‘t let GW shine in a good light.

Edited September 25 by JackStreicher

[MitGas]

59 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

 

If you happen to know what else except for bonuses they do for their employees, let us know.

I think they can buy GW products cheaper. 🤙 😂

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

why?

I may be thinking of a different user but I seem to recall he's an investor so his opinion is..

 "Bought" is probably hyperbole but "influenced by a vested interest in discouraging discourse about GW facing consequences for their actions".

 

[JerekKruger]

On 9/24/2024 at 6:09 AM, JackStreicher said:

The shareholders (21%) voted against it, but it doesn’t force his hand, he just „considers“ the vote.

Wait, really? I always assumed that, as the actual owners of the company, shareholder votes were binding.

[Sarouan]

12 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

@Sarouan

Not at all. have a conversation with Rob (honest wargamer) or listen to podcasts with former employees: The bonuses don’t do much at all. It’s even more bitter when you realize that lots of employees need those bonuses to survive.

It‘s honestly not a lot of research required to see that there’s quite sth. wrong.

If you happen to know what else except for bonuses they do for their employees, let us know.

I know that you have blind faith in GW, I just wonder why? Every bit of research doesn‘t let GW shine in a good light.

What I mean is that if you want to change that inequality, it is not by blaming GW that will change the system. Because it is rooted in all of our society, let alone the miniature wargame market. Ask Mantic Games low key employees if they are treated better or if they're really ok with the salary discrepancy between their own and Ronnie Renton, for instance. Of course, that kind of "news" isn't at enticing as the CEO of GW because it's not the same size, but it is still the same issue. If GW is gone, another will take its place and it won't magically get better.

Change must be made on the political side with regulations. And it must also happen with a change in the way our politicians (and citizens) see the economy.

It is indeed linked to a lot of our key values as well. The very Hobby we liked, miniature wargames, aren't really desirable in a world where fairness is the key. What, you think the material needed to make those don't create inequality in the factories needed to make them ? You believe GW alone create the plastic and resin they need to produce their miniatures ? Or the chemicals in the recipe of their paints, or the sprays ? Not even talking about the toll it inflicts to the planet, like pollution and everything. To be real honest, our Hobby shouldn't exist in a fair world, it is not needed (especially the "war / conflict" theme). Yet it does exist, and we close our eyes to all the costs it implies, not just a question of salary inequalities.

And before someone invokes 3D printing as the solution : it's not. The pollution we create is just individual rather than focused on factories. And it's not especially smaller that way (more the opposite, because amateurs do really horrible things like throwing their chemical wastes in the nature "because it's easier that way" while companies are easier and more likely to be controlled harshly).

So it's easier to throw a rock at GW instead. It's a target easy to hate. It's just for convenience, not for real will to change what is really the matter.

That's why I'm not fond of this kind of thread. Yes, I still buy GW products, even if I do criticize some of their choices as well. I do buy other companies' miniatures and I also do print 3D miniatures or even make my own. But I always remember that capitalism is not linked to just one giant corporation and it's not a CEO having a 2 mil bonus that is alone the problem. It all happens in an interdependant system, and just removing that piece alone won't solve anything.

In comparison to other corporations, GW is certainly not the worst to work for. Is it marxist paradise ? Obviously not. But I'd rather work for them than being exploited in a small business like Mantic Games that invoke the fact they're "small" and their "lower profits" for not paying me fairly (if they pay me at all...).

Of course there are videos / interviews of former GW employees who are pointing the things that aren't right. But there are also a lot of them not holding a grudge and remembering their work time fondly. It's never a black and white situation, it's more about what kind of atmosphere you seek after the videos you want to watch and validate your own points of view.

Edited September 26 by Sarouan

[Swamp Trogg]

Former manager pipeline here. From France. 

During my studies, I used to work during holidays and weekends. I was paid twice the minimal salary per hour, plus bonuses. 

I'm still in good terms with my former boss, who still manages the same hobby center : the guy is paid more than the double of minimum wage, plus annual bonuses (nearly the equivalent of two month of salaries) and is more than happy with the way he is treated by GW.

On the other and, his predecessor complained a lot about GW. Turned out the guy was an incompetent fraud that along with other things, used his staff discount for his numerous friends, then opened his own flgs and failed to make a profit, closing in less than two years. 

 

So maybe I'm biased beacause as an employee I felt well treated, maybe I actually was because French laws are rather protective and we are the exception, but I'm still asking myself if the disgruntled ex employees complaining about GW are not more than a vocal minority. 

 

My two grains of salt.

Edited September 26 by Swamp Trogg

[Sarouan]

That's honestly the same my manager in Belgium told me. He never said he was paid unfairly, bonus included, and he could also take holidays without problems at all. He left mostly because he wanted to move upwards and felt it wouldn't be possible here (there's not a lot of options of careers in Belgium, unless you want to move in the UK which wasn't a possibility for him). All the previous managers moved more about wanting to do something else / go independant than really a question of being not paid enough.

[JackStreicher]

@Sarouan some fair points. 
However the system being flawed is nothing new, however we as consumers should not turn a blind eye when our main hobby company continues with despicable practices.

It‘s not about hate, but awareness.

[Sarouan]

7 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

@Sarouan some fair points. 
However the system being flawed is nothing new, however we as consumers should not turn a blind eye when our main hobby company continues with despicable practices.

It‘s not about hate, but awareness.

We live in an unperfect world, and only the living care for it being better. Problem is that everyone has their own view on how to make it better for themselves...and not especially thinking about others in that equation. The trick is telling who is right and what awareness really counts in the big picture.

Would the 2mil bonus for the CEO rather be shared among all other employees instead be better ? For the employees, I guess, for the CEO maybe less so. And for the company, about the message sent to investors...who knows ? But then, maybe everyone got a bonus already as well ? Maybe the company had to invest a certain amount of money in bonuses for some internal reason ? Only by knowing all the mechanisms behind and all the interactions could you maybe give a full answer. Or maybe it's simply not possible from a human perspective, because we are finally just one person with their single point of view and we can never see the full picture because of that.

I'm getting philosophical here, sorry.

I know for a fact we currently live in a capitalist world and we can't just sever from it without being part of it. You may see that as a despicable practice but in the end...what can you do about it, exactly ? It's not like not buying a box of Space Marines will really put a dent in that practice. I guess you can feel more at ease to buy miniatures from another producer / company, or print some pirated 3D models to have your personnal revenge or something...but it's just fueling another person's business, that is also built on the capitalistic model, in the end. You're just moving the issue elsewhere.

[JackStreicher]

11 hours ago, Sarouan said:

We live in an unperfect world, and only the living care for it being better. Problem is that everyone has their own view on how to make it better for themselves...and not especially thinking about others in that equation. The trick is telling who is right and what awareness really counts in the big picture.

Would the 2mil bonus for the CEO rather be shared among all other employees instead be better ? For the employees, I guess, for the CEO maybe less so. And for the company, about the message sent to investors...who knows ? But then, maybe everyone got a bonus already as well ? Maybe the company had to invest a certain amount of money in bonuses for some internal reason ? Only by knowing all the mechanisms behind and all the interactions could you maybe give a full answer. Or maybe it's simply not possible from a human perspective, because we are finally just one person with their single point of view and we can never see the full picture because of that.

I'm getting philosophical here, sorry.

I know for a fact we currently live in a capitalist world and we can't just sever from it without being part of it. You may see that as a despicable practice but in the end...what can you do about it, exactly ? It's not like not buying a box of Space Marines will really put a dent in that practice. I guess you can feel more at ease to buy miniatures from another producer / company, or print some pirated 3D models to have your personnal revenge or something...but it's just fueling another person's business, that is also built on the capitalistic model, in the end. You're just moving the issue elsewhere.

Your answer is frankly past the point.
And two corrections:
It's neo-capitalism and capitalism is not the driving factor behind this phenomenon called "CEO pay gab".

In the end, raising awareness is the best one can do at the current times. Not reacting to it all is accepting it as normal (/giving up) and has no potential of change at all.
It's not much, but at least it is something.

Edited September 27 by JackStreicher

[pnkdth]

Modern corporate culture (starting in earnest in the 80s) is not something that's always been a truth in capitalism. Though quicker and slower to be adapted in different parts of the world, it has nonetheless wormed its ugly head into most industries. Since 1978 (although in the US) the salaries of CEOs increased by 1460%. What we're looking at isn't a difficult philosophical question but rather a situation where executives pull more and more funds up towards the top. It is really interesting how quickly a fairly new phenomenon quickly is assumed "to have always been the case" and "there is nothing we can do to change it." I mean, they hope for is inaction and apathy because then lie can become the truth. 

My aim in choosing another product is not to escape the clutches of capitalism, instead communicate that if I do not like what X company is doing I will chose another (or none at all). And raising awareness, like @JackStreicher mentions, can be a very potent tool if enough people feel motivated to act on it.

Edited September 27 by pnkdth

[Sarouan]

On 9/27/2024 at 10:42 AM, JackStreicher said:

In the end, raising awareness is the best one can do at the current times. Not reacting to it all is accepting it as normal (/giving up) and has no potential of change at all.
It's not much, but at least it is something.

Raising awareness can be done in different ways than posting a thead on an online forum, though. The question is if it's just done for convenience of your own self-satisfaction of "having done something", just venting some of your frustration in a place where you know deep down has no real effect or do something in the real life to change that (like, for example, participating in an association to change life / educate people at a local level).

To me, the root of the problem is that we give all the powers to one person at the top that is supposed to be "the leader / the owner". Corporations are usually structured like a dictatorship : if they were structured more like a democracy or, rather, a true anarchist system (anarchy isn't the absence of order, it's order by the people where everyone is equal and can be revoked at any time if they don't do their job right), the result would be different and we wouldn't have that discrepancy in salaries the same way. Corporations in themselves aren't necessarily evil, it is more the way they are managed...just like any family, society or country.

But that also means we have to change our value system, where often old white men are felt like it's natural for them to be at the top and attributing all the success of their company as the only result of their own work. That's where the real raise of awareness should go, IMHO.

[Gaz Taylor]

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Just a nudge here. As hopefully everybody is aware on TGA, we are all for open debate but there is a few comments here which are creeping close to where we need to ask is this the type of topic we want on TGA.

So all for constructive critique of Games Workshop, but bear in mind this forum is to enjoy games and models they produce (especially Age of Sigmar). 

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, Gaz Taylor said:

+++ Mod Hat On +++

Just a nudge here. As hopefully everybody is aware on TGA, we are all for open debate but there is a few comments here which are creeping close to where we need to ask is this the type of topic we want on TGA.

So all for constructive critique of Games Workshop, but bear in mind this forum is to enjoy games and models they produce (especially Age of Sigmar). 

*Tongue in cheek