What would a Stormcast 'Heresy' look like?

[hobgoblinclub]

It seems to me that, if GW don't introduce some sort of Stormcast 'Heresy', they'll be missing a real opportunity to add depth to the AoS fluff.  It might seem like the obvious thing to divide Sigmar's forces, as the Space Marines were by Horus' antics, but I don't see it as predictable, or cliched.  Particularly if it's done in the right way.

What if, rather than portions of the Stormcast inevitably falling to Chaos, they instead become tempted over to the forces of Death?  Perhaps, as they struggle with their reforgings and their fading humanity, a number of chambers are approached by Nagash, who offers them eternity in exchange for their allegiance.  I'm no AoS fluff expert buy the Sons of Mallus and Anvils of the Heldenhammer (yes, because they have black armour) would look really cool as Death factions.

This would make for some great miniatures (think Lord-Relictor with more skulls) and it'd fill some much needed space in Grand Alliance Death.

What do you think?  Should some of the Stormcast's chambers join the ranks of Death, fall to Chaos, or should they remain faithful?

[Arkiham]

I feel it will happen. But, they will fight against order. They'll see the lesser races corrupted by chaos and something to be exterminated to eradicate chaos.

 

They'll be consumed by their hatred of chaos and through their desire to do good will end up becoming evil. 

[BaldoBeardo]

You'll see (physically) corrupted Stormcast before you see renegade Stormcast.

Nagash can't really offer them anything they don't already have, but asks a very steep price.
Also, unlike the Emperor/Primary analogue, fealty to Sigmar is an intrinsic part of Stormcast. They're imbued with a fraction of him.
Which is why a Skaven-esque corrupted Stormcast is more likely.
Actually, there *is* something that Nagash can offer. Their complete souls.
Except as he's the reason they diminish in the first place, it's like a guy stealing your car then offering to sell it back to you.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Vasshpit]

As cool as all this sounds, and it does, please no more Stormcast (Lichecasts or not) for quite a while.

Let's get some other factions up to date first 

[shinros]

If you been reading over the fluff if anyone would corrupt them it would be nagash. Anyway I don't think it will happen because nagash explains WHY it can't happen due to the simple fact that sigmar pretty much infused bit's of "Him" into their very bodies and souls. 

Just like how an undead can't go against their master same applies with a stormcast. They can't go against their "cause" or their mission even if they have grievances with it. They can't even contenplate such things hence why a lord relicator was throwing a small fit over how the everqueen restored castellant grims hand after it got chopped off. He is now not wholly of sigmar anymore hence the lord relicator's concern. 

Hence why they looked at them with spirit sight all the stormcast glowed with sigmar's light yet Grimm his body was of sigmar's light but his regrown hand was not. It was glowing green with the everqueens essence. 

In context sigmar is actually brainwashing stormcasts upon reforging them and if you read the end of lord of undeath and put together certain plot points in the audio drama/mortarch of night lends to this theory. Plus sigmar even steals a chaos lord to reforge. 

I personally think this makes sigmar more interesting because he is not exactly using hmmm "clean"? tactics anymore I assume sigmar did this because the most chief cause of chaos winning is through corruption. Hence why if you look through many of the stormcast backstories they are chosen more for their strength of character than anything else. 

Being turned in to a sigmarite worshiper is part of the bra- I mean reforging package. 

[ElectricPaladin]

I've written this before, but my favorite idea for a Stormcast "heresy" would be for the Stormcast to become so inhuman through repeated reforging that Sigmar's willingness to tolerate the disorderliness and susceptibility of mortal races begins to chafe. These Stormcast become more and more isolated, spending less and less time with Azyr's Humans and Aelfs and Duardin and more time with themselves. Then, there is an outbreak of violence, and these Stormcast kill some Aelf for being too loud, or murder some approved and loyal Human wizards, or whatever. Most of the Stormcast are appalled, but these Stormcast - their humanity worn almost all the way through - expect Sigmar to stand by them, certain that he will sanction their removal of a disorderly and Chaotic mortal.

Of course, Sigmar condemns them and orders them arrested... so they flee.

I picture them setting up shop elsewhere in Azyr - perhaps on another planet? - from which they can conduct lightening raids on the worshippers of Chaos - which is, to them, everyone. They're divided on whether or not Sigmar can be salvaged by destroying the mortal filth that weighs him down and liberating him or whether he's become too soft and needs to be replaced.

On the table, a focus on being even more fearless and unbreakable than regular Stormcast and with lots of power to remove infantry, now that they revel in destroying "lesser" beings in the name of Absolute Order.

[Mirbeau]

Nagash has been unlocking the secrets of their construction, and that Sigmar has stolen souls that are his to make them. If it comes from anywhere, it'll come from him, though it might be less Heresy and more making them his undead thralls.

[shinros]

18 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said:

I've written this before, but my favorite idea for a Stormcast "heresy" would be for the Stormcast to become so inhuman through repeated reforging that Sigmar's willingness to tolerate the disorderliness and susceptibility of mortal races begins to chafe. These Stormcast become more and more isolated, spending less and less time with Azyr's Humans and Aelfs and Duardin and more time with themselves. Then, there is an outbreak of violence, and these Stormcast kill some Aelf for being too loud, or murder some approved and loyal Human wizards, or whatever. Most of the Stormcast are appalled, but these Stormcast - their humanity worn almost all the way through - expect Sigmar to stand by them, certain that he will sanction their removal of a disorderly and Chaotic mortal.

Of course, Sigmar condemns them and orders them arrested... so they flee.

I picture them setting up shop elsewhere in Azyr - perhaps on another planet? - from which they can conduct lightening raids on the worshippers of Chaos - which is, to them, everyone. They're divided on whether or not Sigmar can be salvaged by destroying the mortal filth that weighs him down and liberating him or whether he's become too soft and needs to be replaced.

On the table, a focus on being even more fearless and unbreakable than regular Stormcast and with lots of power to remove infantry, now that they revel in destroying "lesser" beings in the name of Absolute Order.

This  already happens if you read the book bladestorm and if you read what was it I think it was a chaos e-short novel where a khornate warrior has to deal with a stormcast that keeps coming back after each time he kills him and how inhuman he becomes each time he comes back. 

While the lord celestant in bladestorm is A OK sacrificing stormcasts for the sake of "sigmars" mission even after his actions lead into a skaven trap got several of his men killed and when another lord celestant questioned him about it he deemed the losses to be "acceptable". 

He also cared nothing for the human sigmarite worshipers they encountered as well it just so happens they were taken to the location of their mission. 

Hell sigmar has been stealing nagash's mortal warriors under his nose converting them into stormcast while he battled Archaon and his hordes alone and then turns around seeking an alliance? Hence why I feel neferata trying to use this "alliance" to get herself out from under the thumb of nagash is foolish. 

Sigmar is pretty much laughing and slapping the forces of Death in the face if they accepted the alliance considering how some of them wish to free the realm of death from chaos. Also a necromancer in another novel raises the point "Yes sigmar wishes to ally with us for now but what happens after chaos has been pushed back? Sigmar will look at them next." 

You find it strange that a lot of sigmar's holy items effect undead in a bad way and it won't surprise me when stormcast get their divine lore and devoted of sigmar get their book they will also do extra damage to undead/death. 

[ElectricPaladin]

20 minutes ago, shinros said:

This  already happens if you read the book bladestorm...

I haven't read that one. Neat! I wonder if they'll go as far as a political schism.

[shinros]

Just now, ElectricPaladin said:

I haven't read that one. Neat! I wonder if they'll go as far as a political schism.

Hmmmm I don't think so but I would imagine once the realms get habitable again it would be bad PR. Anyway I doubt the humans will go against it since I imagine they would be brainwashed servants of sigmar who don't know any better. 

Reading bladestorm how the lord celestant pretty did not care one bit for his men's wellbeing or leading them to their deaths imagine a whole stormhost like that? Focusing on the mission of sigmar above all not caring what happens to others around them? 

Hell a lord celestant in the novel was terrified of dying because he did not want to end up like that not that he was scared of death but what the death will turn him into. 

[Vasshpit]

If Siggy keeps putting a little bit of himself in each one won't he eventually run out of little bits?

And perhaps this is why he's going crazy. He's so fractured.

[ElectricPaladin]

4 minutes ago, shinros said:

Anyway I doubt the humans will go against it since I imagine they would be brainwashed servants of sigmar who don't know any better. 

Never underestimate the surprising ability of people in large groups to abruptly begin giving a ******. That said, I don't doubt they'd make the worst possible decision - like supporting some kind of demagogue or turning to Chaos - because people in large groups are also dumb as hell. However, I don't think even Sigmar's devoted would take well to being randomly killed by their god's shining golden warriors.

I also don't think Sigmar would stand by it for long. He needs those mortals. Even if you take the most cynical possible view of Sigmar's motivations, he needs a large base of mortals to build all the industry he needs to support his war against Chaos.

[ElectricPaladin]

2 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

If Siggy keeps putting a little bit of himself in each one won't he eventually run out of little bits?

And perhaps this is why he's going crazy. He's so fractured.

Maybe he gets the bits back and recycles them? So he's already decided how much of himself he can spare, chopped that power off, and keeps that power invested in the "Stormcast Project," recycling as needed.

[shinros]

9 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

If Siggy keeps putting a little bit of himself in each one won't he eventually run out of little bits?

And perhaps this is why he's going crazy. He's so fractured.

Nope that was a problem before hand when he lost Ghal Maraz but since getting it back he is okay now. It's more of the fact he has so many forces now he has to stay in his palace and direct all of them hence why you haven't seen him on the field of battle yet. 

[shinros]

7 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said:

Never underestimate the surprising ability of people in large groups to abruptly begin giving a ******. That said, I don't doubt they'd make the worst possible decision - like supporting some kind of demagogue or turning to Chaos - because people in large groups are also dumb as hell. However, I don't think even Sigmar's devoted would take well to being randomly killed by their god's shining golden warriors.

I also don't think Sigmar would stand by it for long. He needs those mortals. Even if you take the most cynical possible view of Sigmar's motivations, he needs a large base of mortals to build all the industry he needs to support his war against Chaos.

Of course but they also make the point sigmar is very "My way or the highway" sort of person. I recall when refugee's were pouring in a civil war occurred due to chaos cultists when he was closing the gates of ayzr. Sigmar then decided to vaporize anyone who picked up a weapon chaos cultist or not. 

Plus the devoted of sigmar handles the "cleansing" aspect of his wars after the stormcast leave. Imagine an army of warrior priests, flagellants and witch hunters restoring order to your town which was liberated by chaos? 

Sigmar is very dedicated to the removal of chaos in all forms, he sent people to protect the everqueen after she became her war aspect the celestant prime came down to "aid" her against taking the realm of life realm gate. Yet the everqueen also knew in her mind that sigmar sent the celestant prime to check whether she was corrupted by chaos and to end her if that was the case. 

He is very knight templar in mindset I do think this will cause some people to run into the arms of nagash or chaos I think. 

[Vasshpit]

Order, chaos, death, it matters not to sharp end of an Orruks choppa.

You all keep your poly-ticks but we'll sortcha out proppa!!!!

[DarkBlack]

While the idea does sound cool; I prefer the "equivalent" elite units that we have already. For example: chaos warriors are pretty much on par with liberators, so chaos corrupted liberators don't offer much.

[Ollie Grimwood]

I agree with those that say it'll be Nagash that causes the "heresy".  The reforging seems far more aligned to necromancy than anything else. Given that Stormcast come from the people who have given the most fighting chaos I can't see them siding with the ruinous powers for anything. If Nagash were to offer a better way of giving chaos a kicking some may go for that. 

[hobgoblinclub]

15 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

I agree with those that say it'll be Nagash that causes the "heresy".  The reforging seems far more aligned to necromancy than anything else. Given that Stormcast come from the people who have given the most fighting chaos I can't see them siding with the ruinous powers for anything. If Nagash were to offer a better way of giving chaos a kicking some may go for that. 

I agree with this. The Stormcast who defected to Nagash would see themselves as continuing to fight for the cause. They'd still be out to get Chaos, they'd just be going at it from a different angle. 

16 hours ago, DarkBlack said:

While the idea does sound cool; I prefer the "equivalent" elite units that we have already. For example: chaos warriors are pretty much on par with liberators, so chaos corrupted liberators don't offer much.

Which is why it'd be way cooler if they turned to Death rather than Chaos. It'd give AoS a very different angle from 40k. And, like you said, Chaos liberators would be too similar to Chaos warriors anyway. 

[elfhead]

Stormcasts are either based on space marines or chaos warriors. To corrupt them would be very uninspired. I'd like the 'order' aspect to be what could make stormcasts 'evil', almost fascist. You wouldn't need a different faction to represent this though. Just good fluff. You don't need to wait for GW to come up with it either.

This is similar to the xenofobic superhumans that are space marines. You could easily consider them evil.

from a design point of view I don't see the appeal of every race or army having a good and evil variation. Some of the suggestions in Posts above could be interesting, but we need a lot more armies fleshed out. Stormcasts have had enough love.

[Turragor]

1 hour ago, elfhead said:

Stormcasts are either based on space marines or chaos warriors. To corrupt them would be very uninspired. I'd like the 'order' aspect to be what could make stormcasts 'evil', almost fascist. You wouldn't need a different faction to represent this though. Just good fluff. You don't need to wait for GW to come up with it either.

This is similar to the xenofobic superhumans that are space marines. You could easily consider them evil.

from a design point of view I don't see the appeal of every race or army having a good and evil variation. Some of the suggestions in Posts above could be interesting, but we need a lot more armies fleshed out. Stormcasts have had enough love.

We're not done yet!

This isn't Age of Dwarves or Age of Elves. It's not Age of Humans.

It's Age of SIGMAR.

And Sigmar means giant man chests in tight battleplate. And we want WINGS and CAPES and DRAGONS and FLUTTERY BITS OF PAPER.

 

[Vasshpit]

7 minutes ago, Turragor said:

We're not done yet!

This isn't Age of Dwarves or Age of Elves. It's not Age of Humans.

It's Age of SIGMAR.

And Sigmar means giant man chests in tight battleplate. And we want WINGS and CAPES and DRAGONS and FLUTTERY BITS OF PAPER.

 

It's only the age of Siggy cuz Gorkamorka doesn't  bother with copyrights.

[Aeonotakist]

Actually I would say there might be a very good way to add the depth in AoS story, just by thinking of the root of this background, the Greece Myth and Patheon.

In Greeace myth, the focus was not good or evil gods and their ambition, but how human being try to shed the brightness of humanity, even their power is so limited. Most Greece myth was about the choice of mortals in a world filled with war, with different gods and their crossed destinies.  

 

I have read Bladestorm and in that book it was clearly pointed out that some of the Stormcast actually are 'contracted warriors'. They seek reveange on Chaos but no other god can help them, so they sacrofice themselves to Sigmar and got an opportunity in fight Chaos again. But that contract is just the same as any made with deamons. What they actually sacroficed was not their body or life. It was their very soul. The Lord Castlelant of Bladestrom warrior chamber finally see it very clearly that he even said 'We have not yet discovered what we have sacroficed.'

 

I would say the real thing they have sacroficed was their humanity. Sigmar is consuming their humanity as a fuel to burn the battleground. With each time they die and return, they lost their original targets, their memory and their emotions. That means they will finally forget what they are fighting for, become killing machine of Sigmar and that might be the intent of Sigmar himself. In the same book there was this described 'And what else does Sotrmcast risk every time they go to war for the God-King? Only SIgmar himself knew.' which sounds qutie negative.

 

So one day, a group or Stormcast might start to think about their real resposibility as human. Now it seems quite aligned between mortals and Sigmarcause everyone wants to get rid of Chaos first. But eventually Sigmar is one of eight gods who represents Heaven. He is also bad tempered. Why can't he ask his army to attack Tyrion and Realm of light when they have some different opinions? At that moment, does a Stormcast still want to sacrofice his most valuable memory in the war or gods, or he'd rather find the own path for his race and people?

Maybe finally that group of Stormcast will refuse to risk their humanity anymore and believe human deserves free will on their own, not any noble causes. They may hide and try to spread this idea to other human. They may be very weak in army and power but their dream is true and brave.

Then I will say AoS is starting to become a good story.

 

Actually I already see this theme in another line, in the book of Path to Glory. In that book, one hero decided to join Archaen since he want to kill Khorne. Though that mission was impossible, but his will was the same as I mentioned, that is to create a realm that is free of gods and human can decide themselves (though his idea is more chaotic).

 

 

 

 

[Wraith01]

It would be cool, but not if it happens soon, maybe in a few years. 

I think we need to explore the stormcast eternals more and understand how they work, what the effects of reforging are,  how they fit into the new world they are fighting for. 

[someone2040]

The Hammerhand Heresy. Vandus Hammerhand, Sigmars favourite son has a falling out because he found Ghal Maraz yet some nobody mook named the Celestant Prime (Who always wears a mask so nobody knows who he really is) gets the wield it. Vandus chucks a sook, and decides to spread rumours to the other stormhosts about Sigmar playing favourites and in the end, half the stormhosts also chuck a sook and decide to leave with Vandus. 

 

In reality, I don't see it happening for Chaos because Chaos already have their stormcast equivalent in Age of Sigmar. There's no point having both Chaos Warriors and corrupted Stormcast. I don't think Death will get them either. Certainly they can play around with putting souls into animated suits of armour or something, but I don't see corrupted Stormcast being a thing.