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Mr. White

Help Understanding the Background

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Long time player of WFRP, Mordhiem, BloodBowl, etc, so am very familiar with the Old World. I'm coming in to Age of Sigmar though the new WHQ:Silver Tower. I picked up that 'Getting Starting in Age of Sigmar' magazine so was able to read a little of the background.

And I'm confused...

(not a first)

So, was the Old World (WFB 8th) the Age of Myth, destroyed by the Age of Chaos, and we're now in the Age of Sigmar?

or

Was the old world destroyed, Sigmar floated through space, meet a dragon, started the Age of Myth, which was destroyed by the Age of Chaos, and now in the Age of Sigmar?

I understand some of the old characters (like Teclis and Nagash) made it to Age of Sigmar...where they floating in space too? How many years between the Old World setting and Age of Sigmar?

Finally...what's the deal with the Age of Sigmar? I mean, are there towns? Commerce? Any non-combatants? Or is this all battle-realms that armies teleport in and out of? What do they do between battles? If there's no towns/homelands/civilians/loved ones etc...what's the point?

It may seem a silly question for a fantasy wargame, but I 'got' the Old World setting. I don't really understand how this one functions.

Thanks!

Edited by Mr. White
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Your second understanding is correct to my knowledge. Old world goes boom, Sigmar finds the mortal realms via dragon and the age of myth starts. Chaos goes for round 2 then Age of Sigmar starts with the Stormcast unleashed. There's still a lot unknown about other characters due to the fluff being new and not super fleshed out still.

There is towns and civilisations left, but at the start of the Age of Sigmar most of them have been subdued by Chaos. Most of high-functioning society seems to reside in Azyr under Sigmar's protection. I'd say the lack of featuring the "little guys" of the setting so far has to do with...

1) GW likes to promote the wargame aspect of the setting, thus most of the books are about the war side of it all

2) The Age of Sigmar opens with essentially a Stormcast Crusade, it makes sense for the fluff to focus on that

3) The realms are huge, if you're talking about the little guys where do you start?

I'm sure they'll flesh out the setting over the next few years though. Also I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

Phew! Rant done.

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Was the old world destroyed, Sigmar floated through space, meet a dragon, started the Age of Myth, which was destroyed by the Age of Chaos, and now in the Age of Sigmar?

Yep, that's it.

Quote

I understand some of the old characters (like Teclis and Nagash) made it to Age of Sigmar...where they floating in space too? How many years between the Old World setting and Age of Sigmar?

Not sure where they were exactly. Seems like each of the 'returning' characters had a different way to escape the destruction. And I don't think it's been stated how long between the Old World and the Age of Sigmar. All that is said is ages or aeons. Long enough for civilisations to rise and fall etc.

Quote

I mean, are there towns? Commerce? Any non-combatants? Or is this all battle-realms that armies teleport in and out of? What do they do between battles? If there's no towns/homelands/civilians/loved ones etc..

Yes, there are all of those things, but they just haven't focused on those parts. The Realm of Heaven outside (below) Azyrheim is described at points as something quite like the old Worlds Empire, and as the re-conquest of the other realms settlers from Azyr seem to be moving and setting up new communities. The Season of War campaign that ran mid-year was based around three of these new cities. We've just not seem much of this because the lore has been focused on the Stormcast kicking the doors down into the other chaos dominated realms who don't have much contact with "normal" people. I'd guess that will change with newer releases. 

Most of this stuff is in the novels which a well worth a read if you have a chance. They really help bulk out the setting and string together a cohesive narrative too. I particularly liked http://www.blacklibrary.com/aos/whaos-novs/call-of-archaon-ebook.html and http://www.blacklibrary.com/aos/whaos-novs/war-storm-hardback.html

Hope that helps some.

 

 

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It's much the same as with WFB the details of the world/realms is contained in the Black Library novels as the rest is focused on battles. 

It's important to consider that the mortal Realms are vast it's mentioned in a few places that it would take many lifetimes to cross parts of them. In much the same way the universe in 40K is so vast the same is true with the Mortal Realms.  It almost the case that all things are possible. Surviving non chaos tribes and cities are mentioned in the BL stories. Things are in no way as restricted as they were in the Old World. 

Edited by Ollie Grimwood

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I get the impression that there are pockets of civilization out there in the Realms that have hung on through the Age of Chaos. Most of them probably have a good reason for remaining free, like some military advantage, powerful allies, or an isolated position. But the general idea is that Chaos has been running roughshod all over the place for centuries and this is the beginning of a campaign of reconquest. But no, not EVERYONE is a Mad Max fugitive living on the edge.

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Some guesses from my side that might help you understand.

1. When the old world blow up, there might be a planescape with similar situation like the Eye of Terror, that is,  a place between warp and reality. That can explain why in these realms river flow in the sky and people's spirit can return so fast and freely after death. Cause it is o longer the universe we are familiar anymore. Also due to the wold world have very strong magic power, it tweak the new Realms with eight themes bind to each magic wind. So my opinion will be the mortal realm has some relationship with the blown up planet.

2. Sigmar float in the air means he was in the ether of this warp-like place. Considering at the ET, his end was being dragged down to the warp maelstorm by Archaon. Also Archaon was floating in the air after ET and got rescued by the four chaos gods.

3. The other gods definitely have similar experience. They were incination at ET and their spirit should be powerful enough to find a place in warp or warp-like space. Maybe their magic power protected them through the process.

4. There are three gods in Patheon that was alread gods in old world, they are Gorkamorka, Grimgir and Gronir. Based on ET, all old world gods were living in the warp. Now they show up and massed up with Teclis or so just mean those once mortal hero are now in warp or warp-like place.

5. The Age of Chaos was discribed as aeon in the first few books. Then it was released that Sigmar only closed his door for 500 years... So 'aeon' can mean as short as 500 years.

6. There was vast civilizations during the Age of Myth. There was no war, and the Patheon was glad to share their power by killing mosters or help constructions. All people (and orcs, drarf maybe not aelf) were living a happy life and huge cities with wonders inside merge from horizon. But majority of them got destroyed by Chaos. Azylheim was one of the few big cities left and maybe the only one. In other Realms,  there are a few cities stand 500 years being sieged by chaos but still not fallen yet.

7. Most Stormcast have memory of their last live and really want to restore the civilization. It's the same targe of Sigmar, or at least it seems so. Some Stormcast even returned to the ruins where once was their hometown and a large city.   

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Thanks, all, this is helping make it a little more clear, but two other questions this morning.

 

1) About the 'Realms'. Are these realms like planets or dimensions? If I were the citizen of one would I look up at the night sky and see another far away? And with each realm being so vast, do they each contain all the races? I mean are there skaven and orruks on each realm as well?

2) About awareness, transportation, and leadership of the armies. Are mortal generals leading armies through realmgates to attack other realms or is it all god-level directed? If a realm is so vast (taking lifetimes to cross) why is my orruk warboss sending tribes to other realms? Or, again, is it Gorkamorka sending waves of greenskins to other realms?

 

Thanks again!

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9 minutes ago, Mr. White said:

Thanks, all, this is helping make it a little more clear, but two other questions this morning.

 

1) About the 'Realms'. Are these realms like planets or dimensions? If I were the citizen of one would I look up at the night sky and see another far away? And with each realm being so vast, do they each contain all the races? I mean are there skaven and orruks on each realm as well?

2) About awareness, transportation, and leadership of the armies. Are mortal generals leading armies through realmgates to attack other realms or is it all god-level directed? If a realm is so vast (taking lifetimes to cross) why is my orruk warboss sending tribes to other realms? Or, again, is it Gorkamorka sending waves of greenskins to other realms?

 

Thanks again!

Based on my understanding, the Realms are more like dimentions. All the maps related were quite fragmented and discontinous. Actually they didn't really show any worldmap of a single Realm.

On each Realm, there lives almost all the races. There are dwarf everywhere. There were Ocrs on Azyr (thought they finally all got slaughtered when SIgmar want to train his Stormcast in battle and desipline, which makes me feel very unconfortable.) There are Orges in Death Realm and Undead hiding in the Realm of Life.

The transportation between Realms is quite convienient that not only mortal military can do that but also trades man will cross the Realmgate to make business. The Allpoints in Age of Myth was once the largest city in all Mortal Realms. Millions of advanturors,  caverns and circuses cross the gates in the city to travel afar for business and entertainment.

 

 

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This has been great at explaining some stuff to me that I was misunderstanding. I thought the Age of Myth was before the old world... And that all of Warhammer Fantasy was the point we're they entered the Age of Chaos. I also thought that was the whole point of Total War Warhammer the fall of the old world into the Age of Chaos. 

 

But yeah,  I always saw the realms as different dimensions.  Like our whole universe is disconnected from heaven and hell in modern religious terms. It's beyond the scope of spaceships, the realmgates connect different realities, separate planes of existence. 

Edited by Wraith01

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I know that technically the world-that-was led onto the Age of Sigmar setting, but for me I approach Age of Sigmar like a movie franchise reboot. Some of the characters are still there but it's not directly linked to what came before.

The reason I approach it this way is because I feel that a) GW are trying to move away from the old setting and are just throwing in some Easter eggs here and there for long time fans, and b) The Old World doesn't matter to Age of Sigmar. What I mean by that is it seems what Nagash, or Archaon or the Glotkin of Thanquol or Skarbrand, whatever they did in the Old World is just completely irrelevant. They never think back to it, it doesn't dictate what they do or what they know. They will have similar personality traits, but other than that it occurred so long ago it simply doesn't matter.

So even if it technically follows on in a sequence, I view it as an IP reboot with similar characters and themes and not much else in common.

As for towns and cities, I love the low fantasy side of the Old World and this was the hardest part of my transition, but now we have Azyrheim, Hammerhal, Greywater Fastness and a few others. Cities and towns to work with and set stories around, so I am growing enjoy the low fantasy aspects being brought into Age of Sigmar even if it's not the focus like I would prefer.

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47 minutes ago, bottle said:

I know that technically the world-that-was led onto the Age of Sigmar setting, but for me I approach Age of Sigmar like a movie franchise reboot. Some of the characters are still there but it's not directly linked to what came before.

With Jeff Goldblum as Teclis and the much loved skaven puppets replaced by soulless cgi. The first in an expanded universe of 15+ sequels. ;) 

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1 hour ago, bottle said:

I know that technically the world-that-was led onto the Age of Sigmar setting, but for me I approach Age of Sigmar like a movie franchise reboot. Some of the characters are still there but it's not directly linked to what came before.

The reason I approach it this way is because I feel that a) GW are trying to move away from the old setting and are just throwing in some Easter eggs here and there for long time fans, and b) The Old World doesn't matter to Age of Sigmar. What I mean by that is it seems what Nagash, or Archaon or the Glotkin of Thanquol or Skarbrand, whatever they did in the Old World is just completely irrelevant. They never think back to it, it doesn't dictate what they do or what they know. They will have similar personality traits, but other than that it occurred so long ago it simply doesn't matter.

So even if it technically follows on in a sequence, I view it as an IP reboot with similar characters and themes and not much else in common.

As for towns and cities, I love the low fantasy side of the Old World and this was the hardest part of my transition, but now we have Azyrheim, Hammerhal, Greywater Fastness and a few others. Cities and towns to work with and set stories around, so I am growing enjoy the low fantasy aspects being brought into Age of Sigmar even if it's not the focus like I would prefer.

This is pretty much correct the old world is like legend or ancient history. Imagine two chaos cultists seeing Archaon 

Cultist 1: I heard that he destroyed several worlds!

Cultists 2: I thought it was one world full of gods? 

Cultist 1: Well maybe I also heard he beat sigmar's chosen in single combat! 

Random skaven: NO NO NO it was skaven who killed sigmar's chosen during the world that was!

Cultist 1 &2: Bullshit 

Or in sigmar's case. 

Human 1: There is a legend when sigmar was a man he took on a whole orc army just with him and a group of champions! The battle was black blaze path I think? 

Human 2: I thought he had an army? Plus I swear it was black fire pass? 

Human 1:Naaah that must be hogwash I am sure I am right! Also he broke an Orrucks neck with his bare hands before he ascended! In single combat also! 

Human 2: No way I heard that he caved in his skull with the holy ghal maraz!

The only people who will know any accurate events would be high ranking generals/arch lectors and stormcasts who have access to his library all the plebians only have legends and stories. 

Edited by shinros

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The wild high fantasy fluff is what I'm struggling with most with regards to getting into AoS.

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Two more questions.

 

1) Do the books say which regions of each realm a faction resides in? are they named areas? I mean, does it list the orruks live in this part of that realm and this area of this realm? The old world has defined borders where each race lived. any such thing here?

 

2) Are common soldiers, not stormcast, aware of these other dimensions and travel to and from them? are common citizens aware?

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In the old days, during the Age of myth, everyone knew about the realms. Merchants would travel through the realmgates in order to do business in other worlds. I kind of imagine that people would even visit family in other realms. These days, everyone is too busy focusing on surviving to even think about that stuff. Most of the survivors have forgotten that the other realms exist.

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59 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said:

In the old days, during the Age of myth, everyone knew about the realms. Merchants would travel through the realmgates in order to do business in other worlds. I kind of imagine that people would even visit family in other realms. These days, everyone is too busy focusing on surviving to even think about that stuff. Most of the survivors have forgotten that the other realms exist.

Pretty much this the realm gates were used for trade and the all-gate's what's pretty much the largest city out of all the realms where all the races did commerce etc. 

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The realms do have names and named areas. For example the first battle takes place in Aqshy: The Realm of Fire, on the Brimstone Peninsula.  In the scenario books there are maps with the names of ruins, geological formations and current settlements for a few areas in different realms. But they don't cover everything in the realm as they most probably haven't invented all that yet. 

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I am certainly someone who is very involved in AoS as a hobby I would say. However, I have next to no investment in the fluff/background. After years (since late 4th ed) of being immersed in WFB and the Old World it's almost like I can't be bothered to start over (though realistically, I think a lot is down to me not having the time to read all the new stuff).

In my mind there is lots of stuff in the new lore that either doesn't make sense or I simply don't know about. This thread has been pretty interesting to me as @Mr. White has asked questions that correspond with the gaps in my understanding. However, even reading the answers, I'm not really sure what I think of it all tbh.

Thankfully, this has no impact on my enjoyment of the game. I still like to create stories and names for all my characters/armies, even if perhaps they aren't grounded in the existing background. But then I guess that is one thing that AoS fluff has going for it; the realms are so expansive and varied (I think...again, I don't really know!) that you can do pretty much whatever you like!!

Chris

(It should be noted that I read and loved the Flesh-eater Courts battletome - an excellent reimagining)

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16 hours ago, bottle said:

I know that technically the world-that-was led onto the Age of Sigmar setting, but for me I approach Age of Sigmar like a movie franchise reboot. Some of the characters are still there but it's not directly linked to what came before.

The reason I approach it this way is because I feel that a) GW are trying to move away from the old setting and are just throwing in some Easter eggs here and there for long time fans, and b) The Old World doesn't matter to Age of Sigmar. What I mean by that is it seems what Nagash, or Archaon or the Glotkin of Thanquol or Skarbrand, whatever they did in the Old World is just completely irrelevant. They never think back to it, it doesn't dictate what they do or what they know. They will have similar personality traits, but other than that it occurred so long ago it simply doesn't matter.

So even if it technically follows on in a sequence, I view it as an IP reboot with similar characters and themes and not much else in common.

As for towns and cities, I love the low fantasy side of the Old World and this was the hardest part of my transition, but now we have Azyrheim, Hammerhal, Greywater Fastness and a few others. Cities and towns to work with and set stories around, so I am growing enjoy the low fantasy aspects being brought into Age of Sigmar even if it's not the focus like I would prefer.

Not 100% true. Seems like GW wants to dim out the relationship between old world and AoS, but the link and all the memery IS still there.

 

Most obvious example is Lizardman. They directly come from the Old World, not through any spiritual change but physically fled the old planet and landed in the new Realms. In their story, they told the Great Stardragon what has happened to their hometown the Old World. The Dragon was so moved by their grief and pain that he shed tears.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said:

Not 100% true. Seems like GW wants to dim out the relationship between old world and AoS, but the link and all the memery IS still there.

 

Most obvious example is Lizardman. They directly come from the Old World, not through any spiritual change but physically fled the old planet and landed in the new Realms. In their story, they told the Great Stardragon what has happened to their hometown the Old World. The Dragon was so moved by their grief and pain that he shed tears.

 

 

I still believe that the lizardmen are pretty much just teleporting down from space ships and constellations are "ship formations" since some are lead by old bloods. Or they might be similar beings the the celestial godbeast since he invited them into his "House". 

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@Aeonotakist thanks for the input I was unaware of that little tidbit :-) in my eyes it still seems like an Easter egg to the end times and not much more, but you might disagree with me on that :) 

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9 hours ago, Chris Tomlin said:

I am certainly someone who is very involved in AoS as a hobby I would say. However, I have next to no investment in the fluff/background. After years (since late 4th ed) of being immersed in WFB and the Old World it's almost like I can't be bothered to start over (though realistically, I think a lot is down to me not having the time to read all the new stuff).

I relate to that last part but I also think this is down to GW themselves doing a poor job of presenting the new world in the more accessible material (battletomes etc) that people who aren't up to their necks in Black Library lit actually see. So far the Mortal Realms are just a nebulous concept in the surface material that hasn't been fleshed out at all.

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Indeed. I'm aware that I'm not really plugged in, but it originally appeared to me that the Old World died and the Age of Sigmar was born.

Apparently, what actually happened is the Old World died and eons/millennia passed, then Age of Sigmar. This new setting has thousands of years behind it totally unrelated to the Old World.

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Just now, Mr. White said:

Apparently, what actually happened is the Old World died and eons/millennia passed, then Age of Sigmar. This new setting has thousands of years behind it totally unrelated to the Old World.

I wouldn't say "totally." A lot of the fun of AoS is seeing the ways that these old conflicts continue to shape the world and the ways these old personalities have grown and developed over the years.

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8 hours ago, Mr. White said:

Indeed. I'm aware that I'm not really plugged in, but it originally appeared to me that the Old World died and the Age of Sigmar was born.

Apparently, what actually happened is the Old World died and eons/millennia passed, then Age of Sigmar. This new setting has thousands of years behind it totally unrelated to the Old World.

But yeah, thousands of years have passed and they skipped a lot of history.

 

They, of course, did that so they could fill in the blanks later without painting themselves in a corner. What we have is basically a new world with references to a world that no longer exists and all the freedom to tell new stories independent from what existed before. 

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