Looking for pro players! (Fyreslayers)

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

I'm leaning more to the Forge Brethren as well. 3×10 AH makes for good firepower. The buffs can be far reaching too.

Personally I would go 2x5 and 1x20 for Forge Brethren. That way you can keep the 20 safe in the tunnels and pop them up where needed, also easier to buff. 3x10 would be hard to protect slogging up the battlefield.

[Malakithe]

Can't get much better protection then staying behind buffed Vulkite. 

Example list...

Runemaster(General)
Battlesmith
Battlesmith
Vulkite Berserkers ×25
Vulkite Berserkers ×25
Grimwrath Berserker
Runesmiter on Magmadroth
Auric Hearthguard ×5
Auric Hearthguard ×10
Auric Hearthguard ×10
Forge Brethren

No tunnel. Straight tanking line. Most armies are super fast so chances are they will meet the Vulkite first. Yes...try to charge a line of 4+ re-roll/4++. Better with shields. If they don't charge you, you just move up, move up, move up...shoot with AH then charge with Vulkite. I think a unit of 25 Vulkite with shields will be slinging some mortal wounds before the picks finish off whatever.

Of course all the AH and magma will be behind the line of bodies providing buffs and shooting. The unit of 5 near the magma and the 2 units of 10 behind the Vulkite.

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

 

Personally I would go 2x5 and 1x20 for Forge Brethren. That way you can keep the 20 safe in the tunnels and pop them up where needed, also easier to buff. 3x10 would be hard to protect slogging up the battlefield.

 

I agree with this. Even if you are only planing to put them behind your line for support, they need to start off table. First and foremost to survive to get to shoot and second to delay commiting where to put them. For example I played the gift from heaven against Ironjaws. He put goregruntas in on both my flanks and would contest the objective on a roll of 1-2 or 5-6. They are hard to kill, I need to shoot at them. I rolled 1 and placed my auric hearthguard on that side and one shoot the whole unit.

[Andreas]

59 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I'm leaning more to the Forge Brethren as well. 3×10 AH makes for good firepower. The buffs can be far reaching too.

I also think Forge Brethren is really strong but from my (small) experience a unit of 15 vulkites with shields within the range of a Battlesmith are really really tough, they do not go down easy. What I mean is that you could make them a lot more tougher but I am not sure it is necessary, I would add more killing power first, let it be auric hearthguard or grimwrath berzerkers depending on your preference.

 

Edit: When you think about it 15 vulkites with shields and reroll save is as tough as a unit with 4+ save and 40! wounds against non rending attacks.

[Malakithe]

The issue I have with small units of vulkite with Battlesmith in tow...is the Battlesmith in tow. There are so many things that can easily one shot him then your understrength vulkite will drop super fast with a tiny 5+/5++. 

Now the awesome thing about 25 Vulkite+Battlesmith is if the Battlesmith is killed they can guard the body and get perma re-roll hit and wound making them next to impossible to move of an objective.

But if it works it works. 

Runemaster as general seems like a good idea too. 2 blocks of hardcore infantry supported by a tunneling block of auric hearthguard looks good. 

I wish there was a better way to deliver Grimmy thou...I love that guy

[Andreas]

True. You have to really try to keep the Battlesmith out of harm's way.

I think both lists work, depends if you like to play strong defencive or more attacking.

I liked how my list worked so far, (I have to try it more), but if I would change something then maybe I would swap the Runeson on Magmadroth for Forge Brethren. I have to try that.

Then it would look something like this:

Battlesmith(General)
Runesmiter on Magmadroth
Runesmiter
Runesmiter
Vulkite Berserkers ×20
Vulkite Berserkers ×15
Vulkite Berserkers ×15
Auric Hearthguard ×20
Auric Hearthguard ×5
Auric Hearthguard ×5
Forge Brethren

[Malakithe]

Only real issue with that is buying 3 magmadroth kits lol

[Andreas]

3 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Only real issue with that is buying 3 magmadroth kits lol

True. I have two kits and use the doomseeker from the silver tower as one more. He has the same weapons as a runesmiter with runic iron and the axe so that I dont think is a problem. ... if you have or want the silver tower.

[Louzi]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys!

I am a little bit concerned on tunneling Auric Hearthguard, because in my first fyreslayer army I had 20 AH tunneling. I was expecting much, but it wasnt that great. Sure, the unit you aim for will be dead, but in the next turn your 400 points are gone, too, because they are very, very fragile. I think you definitively need a bulk of tanks in front of them. So you need another unit of HB or Vulkite Berserkers tunneling, too. Right now I prefer the option of tunneling 30 Vulkites with Axes, because the come, kill and stay.

And: If you have 30 AH around your heroes behind a smaller line of Vulkites or HB, you can protect your heroes/supporter from alpha strike from behind.

 

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Louzi said:

I am a little bit concerned on tunneling Auric Hearthguard, because in my first fyreslayer army I had 20 AH tunneling. I was expecting much, but it wasnt that great. Sure, the unit you aim for will be dead, but in the next turn your 400 points are gone, too, because they are very, very fragile. 

 

Not saying this will always work but try again if you have the models. Put them 15" away with 20 vulkites in between in a turn where you can roll for initiative. ?

[Veterannoob]

tunneling two units and having 2 Grimwraths is a lot of damage output. I can't imagine you'll find it worse off.  Good luck!

[Louzi]

Hi guys,

here is my weekly report of the games of the weekend:

I played this list:

Leaders
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (220)
- Latch axe
Auric Runemaster (80)
Battlesmith (100)
- None
Grimwrath Berzerker (100)
- None
Auric Runesmiter (100)
- Latch axe

Units
Vulkite Berzerkers x 30 (480)
- Handaxe & Slingshield
Auric Hearthguard x 10 (200)
- Magmapike
Auric Hearthguard x 10 (200)
- Magmapike
Auric Hearthguard x 10 (200)
- Magmapike
Hearthguard Berzerkers x 10 (200)
- Throwing Axes & Broadaxe

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Forge Brethren (80)

Total: 1960/2000

I am getting closer and closer to a rly good list. My conclusion:

What I rly like: Vulkites, Grimwrath and Battlesmith. Those units are so so good.

Auric Hearthguard is tricky. I used them in many ways. For me they work best, if I position them behind my Vulkites and close to the Battlesmith where they can grab the totem. I wont use them teleporting again. They are glass cannons and I want them with my heroes.

HB: In the meantime disappointing for me. I only used them as fill-in-unit.

Magmadroth: I rly dont know. The buff of the Runesmiter is good. But the Magmadroth isnt that powerful (even vs big units only ok).

The real star in the list is the Grimwrath. I think he is ridiculous cheap for what he does. Tons of dmg and durability. I think I want as much as possible of them and thinking of replacing the Magmadroth for another 2 Grimwrath.

I also think, that the Forge Brethren isnt necessary.

So next week I only pick the goodies. My current list:

Leaders
Auric Runemaster (80)
Battlesmith (100)
- None
Grimwrath Berzerker (100)
- None
Grimwrath Berzerker (100)
- None
Grimwrath Berzerker (100)
- None
Auric Runesmiter (100)
- Latch axe

Units
Vulkite Berzerkers x 30 (480)
- Handaxe & Slingshield
Auric Hearthguard x 20 (400)
- Magmapike
Vulkite Berzerkers x 30 (480)
- Handaxe & Slingshield

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions

Total: 1940/2000

 

I am pretty much happy with this list. The only unit which is useless in this list is the Runemaster. All the rest is a powerhouse.

 

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

Useful feedback from your list. Any more info on why the Magmadroth wasn't good?

I am pretty much happy with this list. The only unit which is useless in this list is the Runemaster. All the rest is a powerhouse.

Runemasters pretty good dude if you make the most of him. Don't just forget he's there that ability of his is really useful for area control remember.

[Andreas]

I like the last list. I would split one unit of vulkites and switch the Runemaster and one grimwrath for a runesmiter on magmadroth. I just think he is to usefull for his points to leave out.. and I like the model. 

Here is a picture of my tournament force:

 

[Louzi]

I disagree. The Runemaster is a huge problem vs. many lists. I play vs. tournament players with rly competetive lists. They often have at least one big shooting unit. If they get the reroll 1 it is huge. I rly hate that Runemaster. It is not just a waste of points, but can be bad for you. Just think about those 20 Judicators are Bonesplitter units shooting at you.

[Veterannoob]

Hope things get better for you @Louzi 

[Louzi]

@ Andreas: Nice army!

@ Veterannoob: I have made 2 games with my new list and it works very well. My opponents couldnt believe those Grimwarth costs only 100 points. And you rly dont make friends playin 30 Vulkites with a Battlesmith

But: Although I only played 2 games (and win both) it is pretty clear that I am still not at the end of my journey to find the perfect fyreslayers list. If you dont use Forge Brethren, I think it is worth tunneling the Auric Hearthguard together with the other unit of Vulkites. So for the weekend I will replace 5 Auric Hearthguard for another Runesmiter. I think 15 Auric Hearthguards are still fine. I still disagree with Andreas in question of the numbers of Vulkites. For me they only work in huge numbers. There are still decisions to make: Playin with Forge Brethren (and that case with Runesmiter on Magmadroth) or not. Tunneling 30 Vulkites or HB.

A little advice for all fyreslayers players out there:

Get 30 Vulkites (I still prefer axes, but shields ok, too), 1 Battlesmith, 1 Grimwrath Berserker. Those units will never dissappoint you and are the core of a great army. Start from here building your full list and let us know what works best for you.

[Andreas]

Just I quick summery of the 2 units of 15 vulkites vs one unit of 30 vulkites arguments. 

One unit of 30 vulkites is roughly the equivalent of 50 wounds. Two units of 15 vulkites is roughly the equivalent of 40 wounds.

So on the plus side for two small units are:

• ·         You can hold multiple objectives. This is key in several general’s handbook battleplans.
• ·         It is easier to make the battleline requirement. You don’t need to use for example a Runemaster as your general.
• ·         Two units are not as easy as one unit to bog down.

On the plus side for one big unit:

• ·         The enemy need to kill 10 extra wounds.
• Easier to buff (reroll wound rolls, inspiring presence)
• Higher bravery in battleshock tests.
• Only one activation 
• Only one drop

I would say which one you go for depends a lot on your playing style. Two units are more aggressive (more maneuverable, harder to bog down, can go for two objectives), while one big unit are much more defensive (harder to kill and easier to buff).

[Louzi]

I am not good in maths, bro.

But I played alot. And from my experience I can tell you, that it is a completely different thing if you go with 30 or 15 Vulkites. Period.

[Nico]

I agree with Louzi - it's all about the ward save, the impact hits and getting the most damage from the first activation. 20 Vulkites is the minimum and that's only because they keep the 4+ ward for the whole of the combat phase even if they lose models.

15 really didn't cut it at Honour & Glory.

30 means 5 mortal wounds as impact hits, followed by a shedload of attacks, then in the next turn, the Runesmiter gives them rerolls to wound on melee and ranged attacks and they are on 4+ saves against melee attacks.

[Andreas]

24 minutes ago, Louzi said:

I am not good in maths, bro.

But I played alot. And from my experience I can tell you, that it is a completely different thing if you go with 30 or 15 Vulkites. Period.

I am ok at maths but it cant really be calculated exactly since it depends when you take the wounds. But you can calculate the range accurately:

10 wounds - equvavlent of something in between 11,8 and 15,0 wounds, average 13,4

15 wounds - equvavlent of something in between 18,5 and 22,5 wounds, average 20,5

20 wounds - equvavlent of something in between 25,3 and 40,0 wounds, average 32,7

25 wounds - equvavlent of something in between 32,8 and 50,0 wounds, average 41,4

30 wounds - equvavlent of something in between 40,3 and 60,0 wounds, average 50,2

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Nico said:

I agree with Louzi - it's all about the ward save, the impact hits and getting the most damage from the first activation. 20 Vulkites is the minimum and that's only because they keep the 4+ ward for the whole of the combat phase even if they lose models.

15 really didn't cut it at Honour & Glory.

30 means 5 mortal wounds as impact hits, followed by a shedload of attacks, then in the next turn, the Runesmiter gives them rerolls to wound on melee and ranged attacks and they are on 4+ saves against melee attacks.

I agree that you should tunnel at least 20 vulkites.

I prefer to have 2 units of 15 starting on the table rather than one unit of 30. That way you can hold two objectives or maybe leave one unit and use the other to support the attack.

The different options in discussion are I think.

Option A:

• 30 Vulkites
• 15 Vulkites
• 15 Vulkites
• General of your choice

 

Option B:

• 30 Vulkites
• 10 Hearthguard berzerkers
• 10 Hearthguard berzerkers
• Runefather as general

 

Option C:

• 30 Vulkites
• 30 Vulkites
• 10-20 Auric berzerkers
• Runemaster as general

I dont think there is a correct answer here. But it is fun to discuss.  I prefer option A. Option B seems common. Louzi is testing option C.

[Malakithe]

Yeah there is no 'correct' way to do. Just personal preference.

Runemaster as general...quick dead general but required for AH battleline. His ability for terrain denial could be good to put enemy units where you want. Or just completely troll Sylvaneth lol

Runefather as general. Foot version is better and cheaper with a good CA which makes him the tankiest. He basically gets a 4++ and if near a unit of Vulkite or HB they can even just toss away the already tossed away wound. 

I also prefer units of 30 Vulkite. I've heard a Runefather on foot escorted by a unit of 20 HB makes for a hard hitting block.

[Louzi]

Well, our generals are such a thing...

The best command ability by far has the Runeson on Magmadroth.

Runeson on foot is a little bit better than Runefather on foot, but you take the Runefather to make HB battleline.

BUT: Is it important? I never played a game using the command ability. Because of our big units you always have to use inspiring presence, better 2x. So for me command abilities are no issue. I am glad, that we have no super good command ability. Otherwise it would me make rly angry that I always have to use inspiring presence...

[Andreas]

14 minutes ago, Louzi said:

Well, our generals are such a thing...

The best command ability by far has the Runeson on Magmadroth.

Runeson on foot is a little bit better than Runefather on foot, but you take the Runefather to make HB battleline.

BUT: Is it important? I never played a game using the command ability. Because of our big units you always have to use inspiring presence, better 2x. So for me command abilities are no issue. I am glad, that we have no super good command ability. Otherwise it would me make rly angry that I always have to use inspiring presence...

I agree that inspiring presence is the command abillity you are going to use 95% of the time. The only other command abillity that could come into play is the Runeson on Magmadroth or maybe Runeson on foot in some matchups. I actually think that if battleline is not an issue the battlesmith is a good candidate for a general since he is hopefully in a save place and is quite survivable or the opponent at least could get some backlash if they kill your general.

Not sure making HB battleline is that great of a benefit so i would personally rank him quite low. Making Auric Hearthguard battleline I feel is stronger.

Regarding a HB deathstar. I havnt tried it but I would think that is a weak choice for a deathstar unit in general (if you go outside fyreslayers) since they are so slow and are easily avoided and have a glaring weakness that some matchups can exploit (kill the surrounding heroes). Could maybe work against some opponent that have no means to kill your heroes and no chaft and you are playing for example take and hold.