AoS Seraphon Battletome 2023 Discussion

[Flippy]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

What are your thoughts on hunters of huanchi? (Dart pipes)

 

imo they might be cheap enough to be worth their points as a harassing unit (maybe even combined with the terrawings)

I just bought them. The rules are fine & thematic.

As for the army… I already own Ironjawz and OBR, so I’m not really that keen to try the coalesced fighting seraphons (even though I love the new Saurus). I think that the starborne version is very much casually playable. Magic is potent and there is a lot of movement tricks. I’m not sure yet where to find the damage - Spawn, Bastilladon, Chargers? Skinks are now unfortunately just a distraction mechanism, but I suppose they can be annoying with redeploy.

[Malakithe]

35 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Funnily enough chaos warriors really hate 13 rattling gun weapon teams buffed by a purple sun😂

Im thinking everything hates that

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Im thinking everything hates that

Yes mostly the tournament player who try their best in winning.

Beer and bretzel player…….

lets say they enjoyed playing agains them till the risk and reward system vanished from that unit.

[Flippy]

Chargers it is.

[Kitsumy]

caleb is awesome but he was totally wrong this time, on his unbuffed table count cosoesced buffs, conditional buffs, like chargers always having the ranged version behind them, and always atacking in an objetive. kroxis always being coslesced, being on our scenograph and with skinks dead that phase or ataking to 10 model units.... thats nice to math up, but it is only situational numbers, cant see global army with those numbers. 

and count every ranged unit going into melee. when noone will go into melee with a squish ranged unit only to do like 1-2 more dmg and diying on retalitation

 

and some numbers are straigh wrong , per example terradon riders, even counting shot+melee do 6 no rend dmg, and he said they do 7dmg vs 4 armor????? only way would be counting his once per game mortal ability being buffed by the hero, again it isnt the real damage that unit will do.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

It looks like I might have a friend who would let me borrow some of their Seraphon for proxying, so I can get a better sense whether investing in the army soon is worth it for me. Been kicking around some lists in the meantime, and I think I've found some options that make me pretty happy. One is just going full nuts with angry dinosaurs, and the other is similar but with some extra magic and movement/screen options to help with the combined arms aspects. Both are gonna be Coalesced,  Koatl's Claw. Thunder Lizard is sort of tempting given the high number of monsters, but it's much less useful if you aren't taking a bunch of different kinds of monster and are just loading up on Carnosaurs (plus Koatl's Claw is honestly just strong).

 

First list:

Oldblood on Carnosaur 285

--General (probably Prime Warbeast command trait)

--unsure of artefact, either Blade of Realities or Amulet of Destiny

Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur 255 

Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur 255 

                     

Saurus Warriors 200                                                                      

Saurus Warriors 200      

Aggradon Lancers (reinforced, with spears) 420

                                                                    

Spawn of Chotec 125                                                     

Spawn of Chotec 125                                                     

Spawn of Chotec 125  

 

Second list

Oldblood on Carnosaur 285

--same deal on this guy as the other list

Scar Veteran on Carnosaur 255

Skink Oracle on Troglodon 270

Skink Starseer 150

               

Skinks 85

Skinks 85

Saurus Warriors

200

 Aggradon Lancers (reinforced, with spears) 420

Spawn of Chotec

Spawn of Chotec

A couple random thoughts--Oldblood on Carnosaur has some nice synergy with the Spawn of Chotec, letting you All Out Attack multiple Globs of Flame Acid. Also, I know the Aggradon Lancers are probably better off in MSU because of the mount attack range, but I like the visual a reinforced unit would give.

  

[Lord Kroak]

On 4/25/2023 at 9:54 PM, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

It looks like I might have a friend who would let me borrow some of their Seraphon for proxying, so I can get a better sense whether investing in the army soon is worth it for me. Been kicking around some lists in the meantime, and I think I've found some options that make me pretty happy. One is just going full nuts with angry dinosaurs, and the other is similar but with some extra magic and movement/screen options to help with the combined arms aspects. Both are gonna be Coalesced,  Koatl's Claw. Thunder Lizard is sort of tempting given the high number of monsters, but it's much less useful if you aren't taking a bunch of different kinds of monster and are just loading up on Carnosaurs (plus Koatl's Claw is honestly just strong).

 

First list:

Oldblood on Carnosaur 285

 

 

--General (probably Prime Warbeast command trait)

--unsure of artefact, either Blade of Realities or Amulet of Destiny

Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur 255 

 

Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur 255 

 

                     

 

Saurus Warriors 200                                                                      

 

Saurus Warriors 200      

 

Aggradon Lancers (reinforced, with spears) 420

 

                                                                    

 

Spawn of Chotec 125                                                     

 

Spawn of Chotec 125                                                     

 

Spawn of Chotec 125  

 

Second list

Oldblood on Carnosaur 285

 

--same deal on this guy as the other list

Scar Veteran on Carnosaur 255

 

Skink Oracle on Troglodon 270

 

Skink Starseer 150

 

               

 

Skinks 85

 

Skinks 85

 

Saurus Warriors

 

200

 Aggradon Lancers (reinforced, with spears) 420

 

 

Spawn of Chotec

 

Spawn of Chotec

 

 

A couple random thoughts--Oldblood on Carnosaur has some nice synergy with the Spawn of Chotec, letting you All Out Attack multiple Globs of Flame Acid. Also, I know the Aggradon Lancers are probably better off in MSU because of the mount attack range, but I like the visual a reinforced unit would give.

  

 

You should add a slann and a spell portal.

This will allow you to teleport your saurus warriors and cavalry anywhere, including into combat(!):

  

[JackStreicher]

I had my first Game with Seraphon VS Stormcast eternals

my list:

Coalesced - Not the Monster Subfaction

Slan, General, crystal Skull, +2 Spells

Scar Vet

Scar Vet on Carno

2x 10 Saurus

2x 3 Aggradons with spears

1x Rapordon Lancers

1x Raptordon Javelins

1x Spawn of Chotec

1x 10 Skinks

My List isn’t perfect by any means. I won by 1 point! 19:18

About the army: 

I am not sold on coalesced. The better survivability is great, yet I‘ve never even had the chance to complete a faction battle tactic, those are way too specific.

Damage: I barely did any damage. The Saurus and melee Raptordons performed okay, due to the Saurus fighting within 12“ of the pyramid for all if the game. The Aggradons did absolutely nothing. They did 1 wound to Vanquishers across two turns. All they did for me was dying and being expensive.

The Javelin Raptordons were okay fir snatching objectives. They did 4-5 wounds across 4 turns (effectively shooting 5 times due to a lancer charge)

The Slan: Is fine. He did more damage in melee than all the Aggradon units combined.

Scar Vet on Carno: I can’t judge. He got exploded by a lucky chariot charge doing 6 mortals. He can’t take a hit for sure.

Highlight: 10 Saurus tanking a fulminator charge, only losing 3 (wth, he rolled badly though and I rolled really good)

Soawn of chotec: I loved it. It only did 6 danage, yet it applied its -1 armour 3 times! 

Summary: The 4+ Save on elite units is bs. They die to a breeze.

Magic: I had hoped for more damage. The teleport was nice as is celestide weapons.

Imo blocks of Saurus paired with raptordons might be the way to go.

Edited April 28, 2023 by JackStreicher

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

7 hours ago, Lord Kroak said:

You should add a slann and a spell portal.

This will allow you to teleport your saurus warriors and cavalry anywhere, including into combat(!):

  

That'll be FAQ'd. Also, the Slann is too many points for something that isn't a chompy dinosaur.

[Kitsumy]

On 4/28/2023 at 11:11 PM, JackStreicher said:

Imo blocks of Saurus paired with raptordons might be the way to go.

i dont know why people need to play games before knowing if something is good or bad. reading rules and scrolls with points you allready knows what will npbe bad/good/ playable.

only way to play will be koatl with block of saurus buffed up and maybe some melee chickens.like i previously said.

then kroak may be ok, good, or even op, magic isnt so easy to math up.

 

agradons are absurdly useless. they are made to be in combat but save like light cavalry, dont have any healing etc. for 20points more you have vampire cavalry.... that do cloose to double dmg, has more wounds, better save, better move, better bravery, do mortals, can healthemselves etc etc. still dreaming about faq upgrading them to 3armor and changing his ability to dont dissapear if not in combat, and getting points on every charge.... 

Edited April 30, 2023 by Kitsumy

[RuneBrush]

Heyho all!  Hope you're all enjoying the new battletome?  I'm canvasing for opinions - I'm looking to put together a 1000 point Starborn Seraphon list.  The intention is that this will be half of what will be a doubles army - my friend's army is Saurus based and I want mine to be non-Saurus based (i.e. magic/skink heavy).  Obviously in 1k that makes things very tight!  Where would people think about starting?

[Flippy]

21 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

Heyho all!  Hope you're all enjoying the new battletome?  I'm canvasing for opinions - I'm looking to put together a 1000 point Starborn Seraphon list.  The intention is that this will be half of what will be a doubles army - my friend's army is Saurus based and I want mine to be non-Saurus based (i.e. magic/skink heavy).  Obviously in 1k that makes things very tight!  Where would people think about starting?

I have the following idea for now (all based on my starting package of the new army box + SC Skinks box + Hunters of Huanchi):

Fangs of Sotek

Slann (General, Comet's Call, Lord of Celestial Resonance, Spacefolder's Stave) - 275

Skink Starpriest (Speed of Huanchi or Cosmic Crush) - 130

Saurus Temple Guard (will use regular Saurus for this) - 130

Raptadon Chargers - 150

Ripperdactyl Riders - 120

Skinks - 85

Hunters of Huanchi (bolas) - 90

TOTAL: 980

[Gailon]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:04 AM, Kitsumy said:

i dont know why people need to play games before knowing if something is good or bad. reading rules and scrolls with points you allready knows what will npbe bad/good/ playable.

only way to play will be koatl with block of saurus buffed up and maybe some melee chickens.like i previously said.

then kroak may be ok, good, or even op, magic isnt so easy to math up.

 

agradons are absurdly useless. they are made to be in combat but save like light cavalry, dont have any healing etc. for 20points more you have vampire cavalry.... that do cloose to double dmg, has more wounds, better save, better move, better bravery, do mortals, can healthemselves etc etc. still dreaming about faq upgrading them to 3armor and changing his ability to dont dissapear if not in combat, and getting points on every charge.... 

the math on agradons is so bad. And their ability… I don’t even understand writing that ability. I assume it was something good and in ply testing was too strong so they cut it to this? 
 

I really doubt they will FAQ the rules on them though. Best we can hope for is significant point drops. But it’s too bad. Points won’t make them into Varanguard, it will just make them spammable. 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Gailon said:

the math on agradons is so bad. And their ability… I don’t even understand writing that ability. I assume it was something good and in ply testing was too strong so they cut it to this? 
 

I really doubt they will FAQ the rules on them though. Best we can hope for is significant point drops. But it’s too bad. Points won’t make them into Varanguard, it will just make them spammable. 

I‘d have preferred if they gained cummulative abilities in combat: Combat turn one: +1 save, Turn two: 5+ ward, turn three: exploding 6s etc.

@RuneBrush

That should be easy!

Slann

Skink Priest

Hunters of Huanchi 

raptadon Lancers 2x

Spawn of chotec

965 pts

Edited May 1, 2023 by JackStreicher

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I think Aggradons would be much more solid if they just made the rage stacks last. Or even made them decay slowly, so that the Scar Veteran could bump them up for a total of 2 gained in a turn and they'd lose 1 at max. They're a little too expensive, especially without the damage reduction for Coalesced, but a brawl-y cavalry unit that wants to get stuck in is interesting design space.

As It is, I think they'll still have decent play, even if they won't be the best unit ever. They're not Varanguard, but for just over 2/3 the price, they shouldn't be. And I don't agree with the perspective that math and warscrolls alone show the whole picture of how a unit works on the actual tabletop. That is not, and has never been, how the game works.

[The Other Shrek]

So let's say I want to use Aggradons because the idea of dinosaurs riding dinosaurs has reawakened the 5 year old in me. How do I do it?

I also want raptadons because they're cute and the synergy between the chargers and the hunters feels cool.

For that matter, how would I go about building a list that isn't just the typical Thunder Lizards go brrrrr, but still has as much Jurassic Park going on as possible? By that I mean "what are ways to make a total Timmy, cavalry centric" list work? Ideally everything is mounted/monster (though if I'm not mistaken, the only riderless monster is the Dread Saurian and Troglodon?) or on a floating chair, with the only exceptions being a Spawn of Chotec (because who doesn't want a fire breathing dimetrodon), an astrolith bearer (because I too desire a Chapa'ai on a stick), maybe a single Saurus unit (I have the models from the starter, so...), and maybe the Hunters of Huanchi because they seem fun and, if I'm remembering the rules right, interact with Terrawings. (Sure, they lack riders, but they fit the vibe anyway.)

Can this be done in Starborne?

Edited May 2, 2023 by The Other Shrek

[JackStreicher]

47 minutes ago, The Other Shrek said:

So let's say I want to use Aggradons because the idea of dinosaurs riding dinosaurs has reawakened the 5 year old in me. How do I do it?

 

You tell me!

 

The Skinks are useable (chargers > javelins)

Core: Slann

Hero: Skink Priest

Rest: Go wild!

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

10 hours ago, The Other Shrek said:

So let's say I want to use Aggradons because the idea of dinosaurs riding dinosaurs has reawakened the 5 year old in me. How do I do it?

I also want raptadons because they're cute and the synergy between the chargers and the hunters feels cool.

For that matter, how would I go about building a list that isn't just the typical Thunder Lizards go brrrrr, but still has as much Jurassic Park going on as possible? By that I mean "what are ways to make a total Timmy, cavalry centric" list work? Ideally everything is mounted/monster (though if I'm not mistaken, the only riderless monster is the Dread Saurian and Troglodon?) or on a floating chair, with the only exceptions being a Spawn of Chotec (because who doesn't want a fire breathing dimetrodon), an astrolith bearer (because I too desire a Chapa'ai on a stick), maybe a single Saurus unit (I have the models from the starter, so...), and maybe the Hunters of Huanchi because they seem fun and, if I'm remembering the rules right, interact with Terrawings. (Sure, they lack riders, but they fit the vibe anyway.)

Can this be done in Starborne?

It could be done in Starborne, but might be better in Coalesced, depending on the exact models taken.

--The Troglodon (which does not have a riderless version, unless I missed something) works for both in different ways, as does the Astrolith Bearer.

--Slann are good in both, but way better in Starborne. However, Temple Guard are basically a Slann tax--you don't want to field your frog without them, doubly so if you try Kroak. For floating chair guys who don't require Starborne, the Starseer is good, but not remotely a Slann replacement.

--The Raptadon Chargers are probably fine in both, and the Hunters are gonna suck in both.

--Spawn of Chotec I'm not sure about--probably fine in both? I personally would run them in pairs supported by an Oldblood on Carnosaur so both spawn can All Out Attack in the same phase to make the Glob of Flame Acid more reliable, but the Carnosaur is a strongly Coalesced piece.

--Much like the aforementioned Carnosaur, Saurus units in general get much better support in Coalesced. Some may still be decent in Starborne, but they all seem to be priced assuming they get -1 Damage, as their armor saves are not generally worth the price without.

--Hunters of Huanchi I'm not sure about, honestly. Terrawings are fine in either, cheap chaff is always welcome.

I'm not sure I see a coherent whole from the options you want to stick to in Starborne, mostly because of the Temple Guard being a necessary tax on Slann but not within what you said you wanted. If you'd be willing to include them, then a castle with some forward elements in the forms of Raptadons and a Troglodon becomes very possible. However, I'm not sure that's the kind of list you are looking for, from the sound of it.

 

TL;DR answer to your question: Maybe, I guess.

[Flippy]

Really nice review with Ridge from Season of War. The review team apparently sees more than just mathhammer here, as they speak very highly of the book.

[Austin]

I really like the book, but jeez I am struggling to come up with a damage dealing Coalesced list. 

[PJetski]

3 hours ago, Austin said:

I really like the book, but jeez I am struggling to come up with a damage dealing Coalesced list. 

Kroxigors

[Alpidur]

Hi guys! I buy the new armyset for seraphon but I am complete new to the lizards game. Can you give me some advice for a list with a lot of magic? I like Kroak and slaan, che I put it together in the same list or is just a stupid think? 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

Kroxigors

They do too little their points though.

at 4 attacks, hitting on 3s, 6 wounds and -1 to wound against melee snd shooting this would be another conversion 

[JackStreicher]

16 minutes ago, Alpidur said:

Hi guys! I buy the new armyset for seraphon but I am complete new to the lizards game. Can you give me some advice for a list with a lot of magic? I like Kroak and slaan, che I put it together in the same list or is just a stupid think? 

That works. It‘s too strong for casual games though.

[Alpidur]

What kind of list I can run with slaan and Kroak? Maybe I put troglodon and also saurus warriors as battleline?