Slaanesh Strike First and Strike Last

[Darklight]

If I made a charge with Sigvald he gets “The strike-first effect applies to this unit if it made a charge move in the same Turn” and can fight first. If I use a Keeper of Secrets with his ability “Once per battle, in the combat phase, if any friendly units with this ability are on the battlefield, you can pick 1 different friendly Hedonites of Slaanesh unit that is wholly within 12” of a friendly unit with this ability and that has fought for the first time in that phase. That unit can fight for a second time in that phase. The strike-last effect applies to that unit when it fights for the second time”, after Sigvald fought for the first time, does he have strike last in his second fight or does he have strike normal (strike first + strike last = strike normal).

My Opinion: Because it says “strike-first effect applies…in the same Turn”, so the strike first effect should be there even after his first fight and then it should be strike first + strike last.

What do you think? An answer of a professional would be awesome, because I asked so many people so far and everyone has a different opinion on this topic.

Thank you and have a good day.

[LeftFistofNagash]

If u read the latest woehammer article on the 3rd place slaanesh winner, he played as if strike first cancels out strike last and sigvald got to activate as normal

[Carnith]

When Sigvald charge, he gains Fights First. When the keeper places Excess of Violence of him, he gains fights last. Because the rules say, then this happens, it cancels out and he fights normal. All pretty straight forward to me

 

[NinthMusketeer]

I dunno about 'professional' but as an amateur GT/LVO judge I would say the RAW is straightforward; it would cancel out and Sigvald would fight at normal speed the second time.

How sportsmanlike/unsportsmanlike your opponent or community considers that could vary wildly.

Edited April 25, 2023 by NinthMusketeer

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I sent a variant of this question to GW for an FAQ a couple weeks ago, relating to the Chaos Lord on Karkadrak and the Death Dealer command trait. Hopefully they will include it in the next round of updates.

[Ganigumo]

Ruleswise its pretty clear that Sigvald in this scenario would fight at strikes first, and then at "normal" priority. The first time he's affected by strikes first, and the second time by both strikes first and strikes last, and the core rules explicitly state that the two cancel out in that scenario. 
 

Quote

12.4 STRIKE-FIRST AND STRIKE-LAST EFFECTS

Some abilities have an effect that allows a unit to fight at either the start or the end of the combat phase. These effects are called strike-first effects and strike-last effects respectively. The rules in sections 1.6.1-1.6.3 do not apply to these effects: use the rules here instead.

If a strike-first effect applies to any units, those units fight before all other units fight. If a strike-last effect applies to any units, those units fight after all other units fight.

If a strike-first effect applies to units from both players’ armies, the players alternate fighting with those units, starting with the player whose turn it is. Similarly, if a strike-last effect applies to units from both players’ armies, the players alternate fighting with those units, starting with the player whose turn it is. If a strike-first effect and a strike-last effect apply to the same unit at the same time, then they cancel each other out and neither effect applies to that unit.

Example: The player whose turn is taking place has two units with strike-first effects (units A and B) and one with a strike-last effect (unit C), while their opponent has one unit with a strike-first effect (unit D) and two units with no strike-first or strike-last effects (units E and F). The players alternate fighting with the strike-first units, starting with the player whose turn is taking place, so unit A fights, then unit D, and then unit B. Next, units with no strike-first or strike-last effects fight, so units E and F fight. Finally units with strike-last effects fight, so unit C fights.

It would need an errata to make it not work this way, either by changing the core rules, sigvald, or the keeper command somehow.