beasts of chaos Beasts of Chaos 3.0

[The Red King]

@Dolomedes I do get what you're saying and I certainly do want to try them but I wonder what I'm entering wrong because when I look at thekr averages in statshammer I am not getting the same averages. I can test out a few real world roll scenarios but that feels less scientific. If you're running them competitively then I have to trust they are working for you (I'm also on the 9 bulls train btw, I like the better potential for killing something on the charge combined with a doombull to charge again because they really need all the help they can get making their points back).

[Dolomedes]

17 hours ago, The Red King said:

@Dolomedes I do get what you're saying and I certainly do want to try them but I wonder what I'm entering wrong because when I look at thekr averages in statshammer I am not getting the same averages. I can test out a few real world roll scenarios but that feels less scientific. If you're running them competitively then I have to trust they are working for you (I'm also on the 9 bulls train btw, I like the better potential for killing something on the charge combined with a doombull to charge again because they really need all the help they can get making their points back).

The stats hammer averages are a bit off because the majority of their reliable damage is done by the MW charge and the 6s to hit do 2 MWs. It's hard to get a feel for how much damage something is reliably doing when the majority of it is MWs. I math hammered the unit of 9 before running them competitively to get a feel for them, but it's really not that helpful. In practice, if you're running 9 Bulls, their target is going to be whatever the opponent's biggest threat is, and your opponent is going to do absolutely everything to stop it from happening. 9 Bulls with +1 to hit, on the charge, can do 34-49 damage on average to the spread of saves, but that's not really the full picture.

Targets are going to be God Monsters - like Kragnos, Archaon, Alarielle, Teclis, Mega Gargants etc. Usually they've got wards on too. It'll be one of them, or whatever the scariest hammer unit is - Fulminators, Stalkers, Stonehorns, Ironguts, Dragons, Varanguard etc. Most lists can only afford one of these units. Generally you're looking at 20 something wounds on a 2 or 3+ save, with a 5+ ward. For examples sake, lets say 25 wounds, on a 2+ save, with a 5+ ward. If you charge, which you almost certainly will do by ambushing or using Doombull, you get 9 MWs off the bat. If you're opponent is smart, they've probably tried to counter play to stop you piling in all 9 bulls, so lets say only 7 can swing.

First profile: 7*3+1=22, so that's 22 attacks, where 6s do 2 MWs. 22/6= 3.6, then *2 for the MWs and you're on 7.3 MWs average. Add that to the 9 from the charge, and you're on 16 MWs already. If there's no ward save, that'll reliably kill a good chunk of threats, especially monsters. Second profile: 7*2+1=13. 13/6*2= 4.3 MWs from the horns. So, on average, with 7 Bulls in combat, you're doing 20 MWs just on the 6s, where 9 are practically guaranteed. Even with a 5+ ward, you're still getting roughly 14 or 15 wounds through pretty reliably, before rolling out any of the wound and save rolls. With the wound and save rolls, at 2 damage each you'd have to be insanely unfortunate not to get a few more through. The only things that 9 Bulls can't kill reliably in one turn of combat are 25+ wound units with ward saves, and even then you've got to be incredibly unlucky. Even in those cases, you've probably done more than enough damage to neuter the threat.

Math hammer is useful but it's not the full picture - if you ask yourself 'What unit does this unit have to kill?' and then 'Can this unit kill it reliably?' you'll end up getting much more efficiency out of the unit. 9 Bulls with shields will reliably kill the vast majority of threats, but more importantly, they'll survive the clap back and get to do it again. If you're spending 630 points on a unit, you want all the value you can get, and there just isn't any value in overkilling something when the clap back could easily cost you the entire unit. They can't get their points back if they're dead, and odds are, without shields, in most match ups, they'll go kill a 400-500 point unit then get pasted. My Bulls have one shot Kragnos, Huskard on Stonehorn, an Ironclad, 15 Thunderers, Durthu and a Treelord together in one combat phase, Lady O and a bunch of ghosts, all with overkill, but most importantly, they survived and went off to kill something else after. I think the only thing they haven't deleted was a unit of 4 Stormdrake, and that's because I put the charge MW into something else which was a bad decision in hindsight.

I've got a 1 day tournament this weekend where we can read the lists before playing. I'll have a butchers today and see if there's anything at all that could realistically tank 9 Bulls with shields that isn't just an anvil/tarpit. 

[The Red King]

I'll definitely be paying attention to whether my axe bulls are over killing their targets and try it out. I appreciate the long and thought out replies.

Edit: Just wanted to shamelessly plug my finally battle ready skullfray!

  https://www.tga.community/forums/topic/34704-the-painting-contract-april-2023/?do=findComment&comment=617330

Edited April 27, 2023 by The Red King

[Dolomedes]

On 4/24/2023 at 4:11 PM, Dolomedes said:

Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos
- Army Subfaction: Gavespawn
- Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

LEADER

1 x Doombull (180)*
- General
- Command Traits: Slakefray Reveller
- Artefacts: Brayblast Trumpet
- Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage

1 x Beastlord (145)*
- Artefacts: Bleating Gnarlstaff

1 x Great Bray-Shaman (95)*
- Spells: Tendrils of Atrophy

BATTLELINE

3 x Morghurite Chaos Spawn (Gibbering Congregation) (230)

3 x Morghurite Chaos Spawn (Gibbering Congregation) (230)

3 x Morghurite Chaos Spawn (Gibbering Congregation) (230)

10 x Ungors (80)*
- Brayhorn Blower
- Banner Bearer
- Halfhorn
- Gnarled Shortspear

9 x Bullgors (630)**
- 2 x Warheard Drummer
- 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer
- Cleaving Axe and Bullshield

OTHER

6 x Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Enlightened (180)**
- Aviarch

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Warlord

**Galletian Veterans

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

Taking this lot out next weekend to a 1 day tournament. Hopefully it gets the job done. I'm slightly apprehensive about the 9 Bulls, but it's a dam solid hammer that can kill multiple units a turn. Hopefully spawn can protect them on the clap back.

This list went 1-2. Round one vs new SBGL was a loss 23-24 vs a very good player local tournament player (he came 3rd overall). Round two vs NH was a big win. Round 3 vs Maggotkin was a heavy loss because I was tired by this point and played like a chump. My opponent was also a seasoned tournament player (he came 2nd at a local 2 tournament the week before).

Round 1 vs SBGL, and the battleplan was Path of a Champion. It was one of, if not the, best games I've ever played. It was incredibly cagey, with both of us giving away priority if we won it. He positioned grave sites very well, and the battle was mostly fought out between his dire wolves and skeletons and my hordes of spawn. His hammers were 10 Blood knights, Vengorian lord, and Vamp Lord on Zombie Dragon. I was scoring double battle tactics and denying his, but he was scoring more objectives. Neither of us committed our hammers til round 4. He had a spell that did 1 MW to every unit on the board which was brutal against my spawn. I kept my bulls way back and ambushed them into my own back line, til they were needed. He had that much board control that I couldn't get them in to do early damage. This worked out in my favour, as it prevented him committing his hammers into my spawn, as they'd get lifted on the counter punch by bulls or enlightened. The spawn were fighting 2 units of dire wolves and a unit of 20 Skeletons, which were coming back after I'd lifted them. I messed up by moving spawn off my home objective once they'd cleaned up. I killed a unit of dire wolves the previous turn, which he summoned onto my abandoned home objective in the movement phase, costing me 2 points. Once the spawn were dead or nearly dead I sent in the enlightened to fight the Blood knights. The enlightened and the Beastlord together killed almost all of them, which was a brilliant result. Enlightened and Beastlord died on the next round, but it set up a perfect charge for the bulls. They charged, killed the 1 remaining blood knight with MWs, then charged again, and killed the Zombie Dragon and left the Vengorian Lord on 1 wound. The Vengorian lord healed back to full, which killed all my Bulls in the next turn with support. I rolled badly on the attacks into the Lord, and he rolled some massive saves, which was unfortunate. The AoE spell that hit all my spawn, and my daft move off my home objective, are what cost me the game. Had I known the faction's tricks better, I'd probably have won it, but I'll know now for future games.

Round 2 was against Nighthaunt. The battleplan was twists and turns. 3 spawn were cursed at the start of the game which was a stinger. I didn't know NH do this, but now I do! My opponent hadn't played against BoC before, so it was a rough match up for him. I explained everything, but he just had no idea how to play his army against it. I ambushed his black coach and killed it round 1 as he'd left it unprotected on a flank. My opponent castled up once he saw what the Bulls can do, and sent everything at them. He managed to kill 7 of them. By removing the front models first, the Bulls came out of combat, which left me able to rally 2 back next turn. The bulls were then safe behind a big wall of spawn, with my Enlightened next to them. As my opponent had castled up, it left him with very little board presence, so I could use the Spawn's movement and decent output to get the upper hand in the field on objectives and pull ahead on points. I rallied the Bulls back til I had 7, then went in for the kill on turn 4. I had some rough rolls on the objectives activating, so I really had to push my battle tactics to win it, but it wasn't a hard match up.

Round 3 was my hardest match up, against MoN. The battleplan was ours for the taking. My opponent was a seasoned local tournament player. He was running Belakor, Bloab, Orghotts, Blightkings and Rotmire creed. I was pretty exhausted by this point as my last 2 games had ran right up to the time limit. I opened by ambushing my Bulls and killing Belakor. I placed my spawn fairly aggressively up the table, which was a mistake. I underestimated how much damage Nurgle can do with their magic and disease. Bloab debuffed my Bulls, and between him and Orghotts they managed to kill all 9. The Rotmire creed got disease on a big pack of 5 spawn early game, which meant they weren't going to be able to play the table. The Enlightened and my other spawn pack managed to take a flank and his home objective, but they were all diseased too early. By turn 3 my spawn were mostly dead to disease, and my Bulls were dead too. I didn't have much left to play with at this point and I was knackered, so I just started doing RoRs on my remaining heroes so they'd die quickly and I could concede. I was far too aggressive early on in this match up. The Bulls needed more support so they could get into the Maggoth Lords, but I over committed into Belakor. I didn't know much about Nurgle and how the disease mechanic works. Now I know I'll be much more careful about my engagements if I'm using spawn. 

I love using the spawn and the Enlightened. The Enlightened traded up in every game, and the spawn were excellent at being objective grabbers and chaffing up the enemy. The spawn's damage output was always a massive threat to anything that didn't have a big armour save. I'm definitely sticking with Spawn and Enlightened, but I'm dropping the Bulls and Doombull because it's just too much of a points investment. I generally play better when I'm being cagey and defensive, and having a big hammer that comes on from the side is too much of a temptation for me to do something stupid and throw them away. I'm taking more Enlightened and Tzaangors in future and trying to increase board presence. 

 

[The Red King]

@Dolomedes

Thanks for the write up and congratulations on what sounds like some good games. Happy to hear enlightened + beastlord worked for you as I'm very eager to try mine. Sad to hear that about the bulls though. 

Have you considered dropping one group of spawn for something else? Tuskgor chariots are a nice 7 wound 4+ save screen (with their big bases) that also does suprising damage on the charge against 1-2 wound models. Can help with screens themselves.

[Turbocow]

Moo everyone! I am finally getting into AoS and Beastmen in particular! 

I'm trying to create a more ranged-looking list, with some staying power through heals from Cygors and TzShaman, as well as objective denial with Quakefray Cygor's abilities (and Bleating Gnarlstaff). It is all still preliminary, so I do not bother with putting in batallions and etc right now, and the list still has 135 points that I can spend, with potential candidates being a unit of Ungor Raiders, a Cockatrice, or Chaos Warounds. 

Beasts of Chaos

Subfaction: Quakefray
 

LEADERS

Beastlord (145)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Shaman (115)

Great Bray-Shaman (95)
 

BATTLELINE

Cygor (210)

Cygor (210)

Gors (220)

 - Hacking blade and beastshield

Ungors (80)

 - Gnarled Shortspear
 

OTHER

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangors (340)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Skyfires (210)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Skyfires (210)
 

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

Doomblast Dirgehorn (30)

1865/2000 

---

Apart from my list, I am also glad to see that Gavespawn lists are doing well, I love the Gibbering Congregation! But overall, from what I can see from battle reports and tournament results, our new book is probably not performing the best right now? 

[Dolomedes]

2 hours ago, The Red King said:

@Dolomedes

Thanks for the write up and congratulations on what sounds like some good games. Happy to hear enlightened + beastlord worked for you as I'm very eager to try mine. Sad to hear that about the bulls though. 

Have you considered dropping one group of spawn for something else? Tuskgor chariots are a nice 7 wound 4+ save screen (with their big bases) that also does suprising damage on the charge against 1-2 wound models. Can help with screens themselves.

If anything I'm considering taking more - the spawn are incredible. I ran a list with 3 chariots and 6 spawn in for a bit, but the spawn are just better. In packs of 4 or 5 the massed shooting of spawn will punch well above it's weight, then charge and give out -4 attacks, effectively neutering anything they go in to and pinning it. Massing up the -1 attack on the spawn makes them more resilient than chariots. I think chariots are good, and there's definitely a chariot spam build out there, but spawn just do it better. Once chariots have charged they don't really do anything, but spawn usually end up winning out combats through attrition and forcing your opponent to split attacks.

I've got another list nearly ready with spawn and Tzaangors that I'm trying out this weekend - just needs the finishing touches. It's mostly built around just stalling out the opponent and hitting hard with Tzaangor or Enlightened when the opportunity comes.

[Magnus The Blue]

14 hours ago, Turbocow said:

Moo everyone! I am finally getting into AoS and Beastmen in particular! 

I'm trying to create a more ranged-looking list, with some staying power through heals from Cygors and TzShaman, as well as objective denial with Quakefray Cygor's abilities (and Bleating Gnarlstaff). It is all still preliminary, so I do not bother with putting in batallions and etc right now, and the list still has 135 points that I can spend, with potential candidates being a unit of Ungor Raiders, a Cockatrice, or Chaos Warounds. 

Beasts of Chaos

Subfaction: Quakefray
 

LEADERS

Beastlord (145)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Shaman (115)

Great Bray-Shaman (95)
 

BATTLELINE

Cygor (210)

Cygor (210)

Gors (220)

 - Hacking blade and beastshield

Ungors (80)

 - Gnarled Shortspear
 

OTHER

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangors (340)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Skyfires (210)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Skyfires (210)
 

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

Doomblast Dirgehorn (30)

1865/2000 

---

Apart from my list, I am also glad to see that Gavespawn lists are doing well, I love the Gibbering Congregation! But overall, from what I can see from battle reports and tournament results, our new book is probably not performing the best right now? 

Hey.

I like the concept but suspect it's going to be a struggle with that many Skyfires.  They are cool but just not worth 70 points a model, especially in the current GHB where foot heros can hide next to a battleline unit and the Skyfires can't be sharp-shooters.  3 might be useful as a distraction but I think you'll have much more joy with 20 Ungor raiders (2*10 is usually best) replacing the other 3 Skyfires.

I'm also not a fan of the Beastlord.  Love the idea behind him but so many armies are just using buff heros that will hide behind the battlelines, so you can't get near them to trigger his buff. Personally I'd swap for another shaman  (Great or Tzaangor), this would give you the extra points to get a Chaos Gargant which will really help your damage output in Melee in a way that is much less opponent dependant that the Beastlord.  Chaos Gargant + 20 Tzaangor (ideally Gal. Vets) with wreck most units in combat, nothing like 100+ rend 2 attacks to ruin your day.

[Dolomedes]

 

16 hours ago, Turbocow said:

Moo everyone! I am finally getting into AoS and Beastmen in particular! 

I'm trying to create a more ranged-looking list, with some staying power through heals from Cygors and TzShaman, as well as objective denial with Quakefray Cygor's abilities (and Bleating Gnarlstaff). It is all still preliminary, so I do not bother with putting in batallions and etc right now, and the list still has 135 points that I can spend, with potential candidates being a unit of Ungor Raiders, a Cockatrice, or Chaos Warounds. 

Beasts of Chaos

Subfaction: Quakefray
 

LEADERS

Beastlord (145)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Shaman (115)

Great Bray-Shaman (95)
 

BATTLELINE

Cygor (210)

Cygor (210)

Gors (220)

 - Hacking blade and beastshield

Ungors (80)

 - Gnarled Shortspear
 

OTHER

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangors (340)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Skyfires (210)

Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Skyfires (210)
 

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

Doomblast Dirgehorn (30)

1865/2000 

---

Apart from my list, I am also glad to see that Gavespawn lists are doing well, I love the Gibbering Congregation! But overall, from what I can see from battle reports and tournament results, our new book is probably not performing the best right now? 

Smart list idea, and kudos for giving Skyfires a look in. I agree with @Magnus The Blue though - Skyfires are way overcosted. If you want to shoot stuff, Ungor Raiders are your boys. The problem with Skyfires is there's only 3 shots, that hit on 4+s, which can't be modified with AoA. Skyfires don't really do anything in combat, and the most you could expect from them is to clear screens. They can't be taken in Galletian Sharpshooters either so they aren't very good at hero sniping. If you've still got the bits and haven't done an exquisite paint job, I'd highly recommend switching them over to Tzaangor Enlightened on foot (Teof). A unit of 6 enlightened on foot is by far the most cost effective hammer we have access to - they're 90 points for 3, or 180 for 6. Their ability to shut down AoD and gain +1 to wound if you're going second is massive. Here's some comparison between similarly pointed units:

AoS Statshammer (aos-statshammer.herokuapp.com)

You can see from my numbers though that the average damage output of Teof into high saves is no joke for 180 points. Teof are great ambushers due to their small footprint and low movement, provided you screen them.

If you want ranged damage output, your Tzaangors are a great pick. Their totems ability shoots out MWs on a 4+ at 18". Personally, I'd split the 20 into 2 10s so you can do it more. Having 2 10s also means you've got more chances of adding models/healing with the Tzaangor shaman. Tzaangors are in second place behind Teof for being our most cost effective hammer. Tzaangors can hang out with the Beastlord behind your Cygors firing out MWs whilst being screened out. It's worth considering an extra wizard to get more out of this ability.

The Beastlord is tricky to play, but if you get the positioning right he's great. The 12" +1 hit & wound is a hideously powerful buff. He's more of a counter punch piece that hangs out at the back til he can go in and activate his aura. Beastlord is great in the Galletian Bodyguard Battalion with Teof. The 6" range on that battalion is a snug fit for 6 Teof, and if you have another unit with him (10 Tzaangors), you can activate 3 units at the same time using his 12" brayherd activation ability too. It's a tricky setup, but it'll smash alot of stuff.

I think your Gors aren't bringing much to your list. My guess is you took them to cap objectives as ambushers, or screen out your Cygors & Skyfires whilst they shoot stuff next to the horn. Maybe just take 10 and switch out the others for Ungor Raiders. Better yet, drop all of them and take 3 units of 10 ungor raiders in the sharp shooters battalion.

I'll echo @Magnus The Blue's comments about the gargant. He's really good for his price point. If you're running heal on your Cygors, he's a great candidate. He's a great screen too, as opponents will generally avoid charging anything that reduces their save. 

If you're taking a Tzaangor Shaman, it's worth considering the wildfire Taurus. It's a game winning spell, and the Tzaangor shaman loves to cast it with his once per game +3 cast. It's more MWs in a list that's already got alot.

Unfortunately our book isn't performing brilliantly at the moment. This is partly down to the high skill ceiling. This army has a lot of moving parts, and if you make mistakes you get punished heavily for it. BoC are one of the most popular army choices for the AoS worlds event though, which is surprising considering how powerful some of the new books have been lately.  

 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Dolomedes

[Turbocow]

@Magnus The Blue @Dolomedes Whoa guys, stellar replies, thank you two so very much! I will give up on the Skyfire inclusion in this case (especially as I did not realize so many restrictions apply to them!), and consider the Enlightened. I realize that the foot version is the most cost efficient one, but just out of curiosity - is there no place for the disk version of these fellas? While quite pricey, a unit of 6 looks to be an absolute blender.  

The idea for Gors was to glue them to an objective, supported by their 4+ save with the shield, the endless spell and heals from Cygors. I am not quite sure what to replace them with, but maybe the Gargant will work. I'll just need to look for something to kitbash it with, as the model is not very appealing to me. I'll also split the Tzaangors in two, the thought of using them to pew-pew with the icons completely slipped my mind. The unit has so much going on, and I read so many different opinions on how to best build the Tzaangors, from purely dual blades to 6 shields and 4 greatblades (iirc). Whew. 

My thought behind the dirgehorn was to use it as a sacrificial piece for the Cygors to snack on if they get in danger of dying. But I suppose the mortal wounds and the strike last effect from the Wildfire Taurus cannot hurt either!

As far as the general's command trait goes, do you think bestial cunning is our best option? I can see a case also being made for slakefray reveller and skullfray gorehorn. 

Once again, thank you all for the input, and for bearing with my ramblings! 

P.S. I also have a very memey list of basically 9 Morghurite Chaos Spawn and 18 Slaangors. Seeing how MCS worked well based on the battle reports, maybe it won't be such a meme after all! 

 

[Pyrk]

16 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

 

Smart list idea, and kudos for giving Skyfires a look in. I agree with @Magnus The Blue though - Skyfires are way overcosted. If you want to shoot stuff, Ungor Raiders are your boys. The problem with Skyfires is there's only 3 shots, that hit on 4+s, which can't be modified with AoA. Skyfires don't really do anything in combat, and the most you could expect from them is to clear screens. They can't be taken in Galletian Sharpshooters either so they aren't very good at hero sniping. If you've still got the bits and haven't done an exquisite paint job, I'd highly recommend switching them over to Tzaangor Enlightened on foot (Teof). A unit of 6 enlightened on foot is by far the most cost effective hammer we have access to - they're 90 points for 3, or 180 for 6. Their ability to shut down AoD and gain +1 to wound if you're going second is massive. Here's some comparison between similarly pointed units: 

 

Sorry if I'm dense here, but why can't Skyfires get the benefit of AoA? The wording on the ability implies they ignore penalties to their hit/wound rolls, and their targets ignore any bonuses to save rolls?

Since AoA is a bonus to their hit rolls, it wouldn't interact with said ability, no?

[Dolomedes]

12 hours ago, Turbocow said:

@Magnus The Blue @Dolomedes Whoa guys, stellar replies, thank you two so very much! I will give up on the Skyfire inclusion in this case (especially as I did not realize so many restrictions apply to them!), and consider the Enlightened. I realize that the foot version is the most cost efficient one, but just out of curiosity - is there no place for the disk version of these fellas? While quite pricey, a unit of 6 looks to be an absolute blender.  

The idea for Gors was to glue them to an objective, supported by their 4+ save with the shield, the endless spell and heals from Cygors. I am not quite sure what to replace them with, but maybe the Gargant will work. I'll just need to look for something to kitbash it with, as the model is not very appealing to me. I'll also split the Tzaangors in two, the thought of using them to pew-pew with the icons completely slipped my mind. The unit has so much going on, and I read so many different opinions on how to best build the Tzaangors, from purely dual blades to 6 shields and 4 greatblades (iirc). Whew. 

My thought behind the dirgehorn was to use it as a sacrificial piece for the Cygors to snack on if they get in danger of dying. But I suppose the mortal wounds and the strike last effect from the Wildfire Taurus cannot hurt either!

As far as the general's command trait goes, do you think bestial cunning is our best option? I can see a case also being made for slakefray reveller and skullfray gorehorn. 

Once again, thank you all for the input, and for bearing with my ramblings! 

P.S. I also have a very memey list of basically 9 Morghurite Chaos Spawn and 18 Slaangors. Seeing how MCS worked well based on the battle reports, maybe it won't be such a meme after all! 

 

No problem - writing all this stuff out helps me out too. I talk to other competitive BoC players about this stuff all the time, but writing it all out in long format helps to concretise the thousand things whirling around in my mind.

Enlightened on disk are great, but they're just expensive. You can have 12 on foot for less than 6 on disk. The ability to ambush the foot Enlightened and give them +3 movement from Slakefray is what makes them so good. Their points cost is low because they were pointed for the Tzeentch book which doesn't have the movement buffs and rend buff that BoC has. Enlightened on Disk pair well with a Tzaangor Shaman with Skullfray command trait to give out the +1 attack. It's a very serious threat package. Tzaangor Enlightened on Disk are good, but for the price point, you can take Bulls, which hit much harder, or you can take 2 units of 6 on foot. 

If you're taking 2 units of 10 Tzaangors and using them to shoot things, then your Gors aren't really bringing much as objective sitters. Tzaangors screened by a Cygor do it better. However, I think 20 Gors is still a great pick in any list because of their +2 to charge from ambush. 20 Gors with Dual Weapons and AoA is a fairly potent hammer. I've had many games where I've needed that unit to show up and charge onto an objective. 61 attacks, 3s and 3s, rend -1 will do work. Also, they're good for completing the rampaging beastherd battle tactic. The strike last is obviously very strong too. Gors are a good threat piece that'll make your opponent think twice about their movement and deployment.

It's Paired Savage blades all day on Tzaangors. The reason why is the herdstone. The -1 rend buff from the herdstone with the paired blades native 3+ to hit and additional attacks does way more consistent high damage. The greater weight of attacks from paired savage blades interact much better with the spell lore buffing we have too - Wild Rampage for exploding 6s, and Tendrils for +1 damage. If you hang the Tzaangors back, it's quite feasible that they stick around til turn 4 and get rend -2, and on that weight of attacks, you'll be cleaning out most threats.

I agree about the dirgehorn - having used it myself as a Cygor snack, I can assure you it works. However, generally you'll be moving your Cygors away from it as the battle progresses, or the range on it will be so big that you wouldn't want to get rid of it. It's still an excellent spell though, and I highly recommend using it. If you're using dirgehorn, the play is to cast it as early as possible into/on a piece of terrain so your opponent doesn't have visibility, and can't dispel it without moving right up to it. It's worth taking, but if you want the most out of the +3 to cast from Tzaangor Shaman, the Taurus is S tier. Seriously, that spell wins games. If you wait for the perfect timing, and land it on 3 or 4 units at once, you can clean out an opponent. If your opponent can't get rid of it they're in big trouble. There's a reason why many consider it one of if not the best endless spell in AoS.

To command traits - I swear by Slakefray because I've played with that +3 movement ever since day 1 of AoS. My rule is minimum movement is 7" or it's not worth taking, and at 7" you'd better be making up for it. 9" move is my baseline. Slakefray with Morghur Spawn is the pick because it gives them an effective threat range of 21" turn 1 for their range attack. Most battle plans deploy 18" apart, so having something that can go past 18" is very strong. It's also very good on monsters. I've not played with the Gorehorn, but I might try it out some time on a Tzaangor Shaman with Centigors. I like having massive movement. You're right - the picks are usually Slakefray, Bestial Cunning, or Gorehorn, but they're very list dependant.

If you've got 9 Morgspawn and 18 Slaangors I think you should give it a try. Morgspawn and Slaangors pair up very nicely. I don't own any Slaangors because I think the models look silly, but if I find some nice proxies I'll be trying it out for sure.

 

   

[Dolomedes]

8 hours ago, Pyrk said:

Sorry if I'm dense here, but why can't Skyfires get the benefit of AoA? The wording on the ability implies they ignore penalties to their hit/wound rolls, and their targets ignore any bonuses to save rolls?

Since AoA is a bonus to their hit rolls, it wouldn't interact with said ability, no?

You are correct! Even so, the low number of attacks still means I wouldn't take them. 20 Ungor Raiders at a similar price point just do so much better. If you check out the AoS worlds lists, you'll find many BoC players are spamming Ungor Raiders (70+) for their round 1 threat potential. Team Spain has a list with 80 raiders, Belakor and Bulls. 80 Raiders fire 160 shots a turn (excluding champions, so the real number is higher), which will be 320 shots turn 1. That's more than enough to delete a serious chunk of an army.

[Magnus The Blue]

Had a game Vs a mortal Khorne list last night with my All Herd:

 - Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos
     - Subfaction: Allherd
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Shaman (115)**
     - General
     - Command Traits: Slakefray Reveller
     - Artefacts of Power: Bleating Gnarlstaff
     - Spells: Tendrils of Atrophy
Great Bray-Shaman (95)**
     - Artefacts of Power: Brayblast Trumpet
     - Spells: Vicious Stranglethorns
     - Aspects of the Champion:  Fuelled by Ghurish Rage
Great Bray-Shaman (95)**
     - Spells: Wild Rampage
BATTLELINE
Gors (330)*
     - Foe-render
     - Paired Hacking Blades
     - 3 x Banner Bearer
     - 3 x Brayhorn Blower
Ungors (160)**
     - Halfhorn
     - Pitted Blade
     - 2 x Brayhorn Blower
     - 2 x Banner Bearer
Ungor Raiders (115)***
BEHEMOTH
Chaos Gargant (145)
Chaos Gargant (145)
OTHER
Cockatrice (105)
Cockatrice (105)
Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Enlightened (180)*
Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Enlightened (90)*
Beasts of Chaos Tzaangor Enlightened (90)*
Ungor Raiders (115)***
Ungor Raiders (115)***
TERRAIN
1 x Herdstone (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Galletian Veterans
**Warlord
***Galletian Sharpshooters
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

 

I don't have his full list but is was basically 2*20 Blood Warriors, 1*30 Blood Reavers, Garreks Reavers, 2 Slaughter priests, Ritualist, korgus Khul, and an Unfettered Thirstier (General, priest, Strikes first).

Mission was Jaws of Gallet.

For deployment, I popped most units on Ambush and once it became clear how he was spreading his forces did a denied flank with 6 Enlightened, the Tzaangor shaman, both chimera and a Chaos Gargant behind the Ungor screen.  All deployed aggressively opposite the Thirstier and 20 Blood Warriors to make choice of turn a hard choice for my opponent.

He gave me first turn, so went for an easy Desacrate so I could focus myself on pulling apart those blood warriors.  I dragged the Thirstier away with Blood Taunt.  The Ungor went to block up the centre of the table. I used the raiders to get rid of Garreks Reavers and strip off a few Blood Reavers, deployed the 3 man enlightened to grab two distant objectives then dropped in the 30 Gor ready to attack. 30 Gor, Gargant, 6 enlightened and both Cockatrices charged into those 20 Blood Warriors. Long story short, despite some lack luster rolls they died but took out one Cockatrice with Murder rolls.  This left him with only 2/5 objectives, 4-0

He went for a battletomb tactic (cause 8 wounds with one of his units to my Ungor), buffed everything up and charged in with the 20 Blood warrors, 30 Reavers and Thirster.  I can understand the logic of charging in before I get my rend on, but this ended up being a mistake.  The Thirster got Cockatriced and unsurprisingly wiffed.  Then he had to go with the Blood Warriors into the Ungor to stop them retreating away, which meant my Enlightened (with all out attack) could slaughter his Blood Reavers before they struck (something like 22 damage, not bad for a 180 point unit!), but they did finish off the other Cockatrice with Murder rolls.  The Gargant, Cockactrice and Gor killed the Thirster with attacks left over. I kept the same objectives 4-5

He won priority and had to go for the double turn, but this allowed me to burn his most secure objective.  The Blood Warrirors marched on and Gutted by enlightened (5 dead) and Khurl moved up the field to support. He scored an easy desecrate but could only get 2/4 objectives. 8-5

My turn two and a nice rend turn at last.  I went eye for an eye.  He fought against with the Bloodwarrors in my hero phase, finishing off the enlightened and murdering my Tzangor Shaman General. In came the last of my reserves (2nd Gargant, Shaman, 10 shield Gors from the Horn and the remaining 20 Raiders). The Gargannt attempted to charge the Blood Warriors but failed and with my general dead, no one was in range to command point it :(.  The units of 3 enlightened moved across but both failed (long) charges).  10 Shield Gors bounced of the Blood Secrator who promptly killed them all. But the Ungor had better luck, killing a slaughter priest in his backfield.  The 30 charging AoA Gors and one Gargant killed 12 Bloodwarrors who then turned round and (with some help from Khurl) wiped them out. 8-9

He won priority and chose took the turn, so I removed the objective with the Blood Warriors against the Gargant. He'd wracked up some serious blood tithe at this, so dropped 20 Bloodletters in the middle of the board! Thankfully the letters failed their charge and Mystic shield and all out defence meant the Blood warriors failed to kill the Gargant, who killed 2 more in response. He maintained 2 objectives and completed eye for an eye 12-9.

My turn three effectively ended the game as I whittle the Blood Warriors down again (3 left), a combined charge from 2*3 Enlighted and a hot rolling Gargant wiped out the Blood Letters and the Raiders finished off the remaining priests. Left with 2 heros and 3 Blood Warrirors, I could easily outscore in the last two rounds especially with full -2 rend up and running, so we shock-on it.

Good fun game and the Gargants and Enlightened in particular really impressed, both doing great damage and handing out important de-buffs.  Allherd was solid, but not amazing, probably brought back 15-20 models across the game, but only that many because I build the list quite heavily around it.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Magnus The Blue
finishing post

[Dolomedes]

So, if you didn't hear, the new GHB season has been announced:

General’s Handbook 2023–24: Warhammer Age of Sigmar Prepares For a New Season in Frozen Andtor - Warhammer Community (warhammer-community.com)

I love me some wild speculation about the BoC meta, so I'm going to indulge myself.

The thing that's got everyone talking about the new season is this spell:

It doesn't take a genius to work out how insanely powerful this spell is. It can turn volume of attack chaff units into blenders.

Gors with 3 attacks each will love it. If command abilities remain the same, we can stack AoA on top of this spell too. Tzaangor Shamans will be able to cast it fairly reliably.

What's really mental about this spell though, is the interaction with the herdstone:

'Improving' the rend characteristic happens after the characteristic is set. That means, the herdstone will stack with this spell, giving us access to rend -4 on our basic chaff units. Add a giant, or wait til turn 4, and we're at rend -5. Dogs, Gors, Ungors - all can now basically ignore armour.

I think this is probably going to get clarified, and some follow up wording like 'Once a characteristic has been modified, it cannot be improved' will follow, but for now I'm going to remain giddy at the potential of waves rend -4 Alpha Striking dogs tearing the enemy to bits.

[Aphotic]

Just went 2-1 at a local even with the following:

- Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos
- Subfaction: Quakefray
- Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Doombull (180)*
- General
- Command Traits: Bestial Cunning
- Artefacts of Power: Slitherwrack Helm
- Aspects of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha
Great Bray-Shaman (95)*
- Spells: Vicious Stranglethorns
Great Bray-Shaman (95)*
- Spells: Viletide
BATTLELINE
Bullgors (420)*
- Bloodkine
- Man-splitter Great Axe
- 2 x Warheard Drummer
- 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer
Cygor (210)*
Cygor (210)*
Cygor (210)*
Bullgors (420)*
- Bloodkine
- Paired Cleaving Axes
- 2 x Warheard Drummer
- 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer
BEHEMOTH
Chaos Gargant (145)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1985/2000

 

Round 1 was the following:

Army Faction: Soulblight Gravelords
- Army Type: Legion of Blood
- Grand Strategy: Empire of Corpses
- Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

1 x Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon (440)*
- General
- Command Traits: Doomed Minions
- Deathlance
- Artefacts: Cloak of Mists and Shadows
- Spells: Flaming Weapon

1 x Wight King on Skeletal Steed (160)**
- Artefacts: Amulet of Screams

1 x Neferata (390)**
- Spells: Waste Away

1 x Vampire Lord (130)**
- Spells: Spirit Gale
- Aspects of the Champion: Tunnel Master

BATTLELINE

15 x Black Knights (330)*
- Hellknight
- 3 x Standard Bearer
- 3 x Hornblower

5 x Black Knights (110)*
- Standard Bearer
- Hornblower
- Hellknight

5 x Black Knights (110)*
- Hellknight
- Standard Bearer
- Hornblower

20 x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)*

5 x Black Knights (110)*
- Hornblower
- Hellknight
- Standard Bearer

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

**Command Entourage
- Magnificent

TOTAL POINTS: (1950/2000)

My opponent was playing a sort of standard SBGL list? He's been playing them forever, so I know his playstyle quite well. The mission was Nidus Paths. I forced my opponent to go first, and he spread out taking most of the objectives, with Nef and the Dragon hanging around the center of the board. I drew Neferata far back into his deployment zone but not far enough for a teleport, buying myself a turn, with an 11" blood taunt from the corner. I was able to isolate his vampire lord and kill it with 6 minotaurs, along side the skeletons. 

In his turn, he was able to claw back board position, hitting a Cygor with the 15 man BK unit, mortaling it off the table, before they were counter charged by my doombull and killed by the 6 minotaurs they engaged. In my turn, I cleared the black knights, and my opponent had the dragon and Neferata left. He won priority, and sunk Neferata and the dragon into both minotaur units. Once more the DB made the Dragon strike last, costing my opponent one of his two hammers as the dragon died to the minotaur mortals. Neferata flubbed some rolls, only killed 2 minotaurs, and took 10 mortals for her trouble - I rolled hot. In the end, I won the game 27-22.

 

Round 2 - 

- Army Faction: Sylvaneth
- Subfaction: Heartwood
- Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
- Seasons of War: The Dwindling
LEADERS
Drycha Hamadreth (320)
- Spells: The Dwellers Below, Verdant Blessing
Warsong Revenant (300)
- General
- Command Traits: Spellsinger
- Artefacts of Power: Gryph-feather Charm
- Spells: Regrowth, Verdant Blessing
- Aspects of the Champion: Fuelled by Ghurish Rage
The Lady of Vines (290)
- Spells: Throne of Vines, Verdant Blessing
BATTLELINE
Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatbows (230)
Kurnoth Hunters with Kurnoth Greatbows (230)
Tree-Revenants (110)
- Glade Banner Bearer
- Waypipes
- Scion
- Protector Glaive
OTHER
Gotrek Gurnisson (480)
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Spiteswarm Hive (40)
TERRAIN
1 x Awakened Wyldwood (0)
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

Newerplayer who had never played BOC before. I felt bad, but he had Gotrek. 

Gotrek skews every matchup. Mission was jaws of Gallet. I kept my entire army off the table, and forced him to go first. I activated the far right objective, splitting Gotrek from the spell casters, and opening up a chance to net 3 of his hunters and his Lady of Vines on my turn. I got onto the objective with 6 bulls and the doombull, and brought on cygor, waiting to drop the double axe minos on turn two.

His turn he ran gotrek at my bulls, unable to charge (I measured a 16" circle around him every turn, and  never went into it - until I got off vicious stranglethorns.) He killed a Cygor, and teleported around, killing little but doing some mortals. My turn two was brutal; Lady of Vines, Tree Revs, remaining archers, dropped. Gotrek was tied up with minotaurs with stranglethorns. 

My opponent left combat with Gotrek but knew his time was running out. He killed one bray shaman this turn. In my turn, I killed everything but Gotrek, leading to a final score of 27-15.

 

Round 3, the eventual winner of the event, didn't submit a list. Was something like this:

Lord of Pain with 1 attack artefact (select a unit, within 6, they have one melee attack - never used.)

Lord of Hubris

Epitome

double reinforced blissbarbs

5 seekers w/ bows

reinforced melee seekers

painbringers

reinforced twinsouls

endless spell (mask with tongues?)

 

Scenario was battlelines drawn. My opponent went first, and balled up to prevent my from pulling his archers out of formation. In my turn, I ambushed minotaurs into the twinsouls, hoping to lift them; I left one, with one wound left, and knew this would be a problem for the left flank of my forces. I was able to kill 10 archers with 2 cygor stones, as the 3rd missed.

My opponent won prio, did some damage to one cygor, and charged the ten man slickblades into both cygor. The 6 minotaurs that had fought the twinsouls were nuked with strike last and lifted by essentially every hero and the painbringers in his army. The doombull counter charged the slickblades, making them strike last. I lifted 7 of them between the two cygor and the doombull - lucky dice for me. In my turn, I killed the seekers, the bow seekers, and scored five.

My opponent won prio, spread out, plinked some minor damage and positioned. He dropped a cygor here. In my turn, I killed the archers. 

We were both running out of models; in his turn, he lifted the remaining minotaurs, and positioned for a run into my deployment zone on bottom five. My turn I positioned for the same.

I rolled the double, took it, and tried to seal the deal. A rock from the cygor ended the epitome, but I failed a needed charge to kill the last painbringer, costing me my ability to stop him from scoring his grand.

In the end, I lost 27-22, and placed second.

Slaanesh is deceptively strong. Their stuff dies so quick, but the painbringer/twinsouls and 5 wound cavalry are deceptively hitty. I am going to drop the 6 man minotaur unit with great axes, and buff the 6 man unit with 2 axes to a 9 man blob and add a unit of enlightened on disc. Stopping commands is seriously strong, and viletide paid off in droves through the event. 

 

[Dolomedes]

19 hours ago, Aphotic said:

Just went 2-1 at a local even with the following:

- Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos
- Subfaction: Quakefray
- Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
- Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Doombull (180)*
- General
- Command Traits: Bestial Cunning
- Artefacts of Power: Slitherwrack Helm
- Aspects of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha
Great Bray-Shaman (95)*
- Spells: Vicious Stranglethorns
Great Bray-Shaman (95)*
- Spells: Viletide
BATTLELINE
Bullgors (420)*
- Bloodkine
- Man-splitter Great Axe
- 2 x Warheard Drummer
- 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer
Cygor (210)*
Cygor (210)*
Cygor (210)*
Bullgors (420)*
- Bloodkine
- Paired Cleaving Axes
- 2 x Warheard Drummer
- 2 x Warheard Banner Bearer
BEHEMOTH
Chaos Gargant (145)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 1985/2000

It's a cool list - what prayers are you running on your Cygors? Also how did you manage on objectives? It's a very low body count list, but having said that, none of your match ups really brought many bodies either. 

It's a good idea to switch out a unit of bulls for enlightened. Enlightened on foot are crazy cost efficient - you could fit 2 units of 6 in. If you're dropping bulls, I think the great axe Bulls are the ones to go. Their damage output is nowhere near as reliable as the DW Bulls.  

 

 

[Aphotic]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:48 AM, Dolomedes said:

It's a cool list - what prayers are you running on your Cygors? Also how did you manage on objectives? It's a very low body count list, but having said that, none of your match ups really brought many bodies either. 

It's a good idea to switch out a unit of bulls for enlightened. Enlightened on foot are crazy cost efficient - you could fit 2 units of 6 in. If you're dropping bulls, I think the great axe Bulls are the ones to go. Their damage output is nowhere near as reliable as the DW Bulls.  

Tried a game friday, dropping a Cygor instead of the bulls. I played the same player who used SBGL in my round 1 matchup, and beat him handily, dropping both neferata and the vampire lord on dragon from mortals in the same turn.

I managed to score 5 points in all but like 3 turns in the last event, so bodies wasn't an issue. Positioning is key. The ASL doombull charge in their phase is absolutely critical to the surviviability of the list, making it very prone to anyone that can snipe him out AND fight in combat.

 

It also depends heavily on matchups. I find a lot of players don't know what to do with null deployment armies, and I've null deployed in every single matchup I've played.

[Lord Krungharr]

Is an all monster Quakefray army viable?  Seems like a good alternative to Sons of Behemat, and frankly more deadly all around.  Seems like people love Bullgors though for tons of MW.  But....MONSTERS!

[Magnus The Blue]

11 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Is an all monster Quakefray army viable?  Seems like a good alternative to Sons of Behemat, and frankly more deadly all around.  Seems like people love Bullgors though for tons of MW.  But....MONSTERS!

I think 100% monsters isn't great but lots of monsters is very much viable.  Issuing commands is an issue as we only have one monster hero (Shaggoth) that is both expensive and fragile.  Also most of our monsters are quite slow, which forces you into a Slakefray build (again fragile heros becomes an issue).  Finally, Chaos Gargants are probably our best monsters and really need a lot of heros around to get the most out of them.

Pop in some non-monster heros and a few units of ungor/raiders and things get much better.  I like to pop in about a dozen enlightened on foot and a cockatrice or two, but they are not essential.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

I don't have the current tome but some of the tricks the Beasts can pull sound pretty fun!  Always liked the Cygors and Ghorgons, wish I'd have kept all mine.  I do have 1 Cockatrice for allies with my StD army though...half way there!  I'll keep my eyes peeled for cheap armies, maybe I can collect them easily.

[Xs_0013]

Hey guys, just looking for a little feedback for a list I'm thinking of running.

Going in for a little local league and I'd like to not get crushed every game. 

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos

Greatfray: Allherd

Grand Strategy: Desecrating Brayherd

 LEADERS Beastlord (140)

General - Command Trait: Skullfray Gorehorn

Artefact: Brayblast Trumpet

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

UNITS

20 x Gors (220) - Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10 x Ungors (80) - Shortspears & Half-Shields

10 x Ungors (80) - Shortspears & Half-Shields

10 x Ungor Raiders (130)

10 x Ungor Raiders (130)

3 x Dragon Ogors (210)

3 x Dragon Ogors (210)

BEHEMOTHS

Ghorgon (240) 

Ghorgon (240)

Undecided on spells yet, and maybe changing the artefacts.

I haven't looked into battalions yet.

TIA!

[Myrdin]

On 9/1/2023 at 6:33 PM, Xs_0013 said:

Hey guys, just looking for a little feedback for a list I'm thinking of running.

Going in for a little local league and I'd like to not get crushed every game. 

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos

Greatfray: Allherd

Grand Strategy: Desecrating Brayherd

 LEADERS Beastlord (140)

General - Command Trait: Skullfray Gorehorn

Artefact: Brayblast Trumpet

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

UNITS

20 x Gors (220) - Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10 x Ungors (80) - Shortspears & Half-Shields

10 x Ungors (80) - Shortspears & Half-Shields

10 x Ungor Raiders (130)

10 x Ungor Raiders (130)

3 x Dragon Ogors (210)

3 x Dragon Ogors (210)

BEHEMOTHS

Ghorgon (240) 

Ghorgon (240)

Undecided on spells yet, and maybe changing the artefacts.

I haven't looked into battalions yet.

TIA!

Looking at it I am afraid its a bit all over the place. Let me try to sum up some major sticking points so you can maybe adjust your strategy with that in mind.

You have a Beastlord but no bestigors or Tzaangors for him to buff.

3 Shamans are also bit too much. Two Gorghons but no Bullgor hero to make them charge out of sequence. A unit of Drago Ogs. is not a bad choice, though they are pretty expensive currently. But two is a bit too many in this specific list.

Also you lack any of the debuff pieces outside of relying on the spells from your Shaman which depending on your opponents might not even get through when you need them. No cockatrice, no giant and no gibbering congregration is a nono.

Beastmen are not a army that has good standalone warscroll but rather an army that (finally) has important internal synergies between heroes and units as well as solid debuff pieces to weaken the enemy and allowing you to pick them apart piece by piece rather than one heroice battle that decides it all.

I would suggest to get at least one Cockatrice and or a Giant in there, and replace the Beastlord with a Minotaur. Or alternatively, remove one Gorghon and one Drag. Og unit and add at least 20 infantry Tzaangors or Bestigors for your Beastlord to stick with and buff.

If you have some spare points at the end a Charriot or two make for defense flank chaff hunters.

Good way to look at the army is to separate the whole army into "mini squads" where a specific hero and his dedicated unit plus a buff/debuff piece can operate on their own. That way your army isnt just a random mix of units that dont really synergize and rely on brute force, which BoC doesnt do as well as one would hope, while ensuring that if you loose one crucial model the whole thing wont fall apart.

[Xs_0013]

12 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Looking at it I am afraid its a bit all over the place. Let me try to sum up some major sticking points so you can maybe adjust your strategy with that in mind.

You have a Beastlord but no bestigors or Tzaangors for him to buff.

3 Shamans are also bit too much. Two Gorghons but no Bullgor hero to make them charge out of sequence. A unit of Drago Ogs. is not a bad choice, though they are pretty expensive currently. But two is a bit too many in this specific list.

Also you lack any of the debuff pieces outside of relying on the spells from your Shaman which depending on your opponents might not even get through when you need them. No cockatrice, no giant and no gibbering congregration is a nono.

Beastmen are not a army that has good standalone warscroll but rather an army that (finally) has important internal synergies between heroes and units as well as solid debuff pieces to weaken the enemy and allowing you to pick them apart piece by piece rather than one heroice battle that decides it all.

I would suggest to get at least one Cockatrice and or a Giant in there, and replace the Beastlord with a Minotaur. Or alternatively, remove one Gorghon and one Drag. Og unit and add at least 20 infantry Tzaangors or Bestigors for your Beastlord to stick with and buff.

If you have some spare points at the end a Charriot or two make for defense flank chaff hunters.

Good way to look at the army is to separate the whole army into "mini squads" where a specific hero and his dedicated unit plus a buff/debuff piece can operate on their own. That way your army isnt just a random mix of units that dont really synergize and rely on brute force, which BoC doesnt do as well as one would hope, while ensuring that if you loose one crucial model the whole thing wont fall apart.

This is majorly helpful thank you! 

ithink I was just relying on brute force of warscrolls and hoping the Allherd bonus keeps my board presence relevant. 

I do have access to 20 bestigors, cockatrice, and the congregation so maybe I'll write a new list up with an eye for debuffing.  

what are your thoughts on a shaggoth to support the DrOgres? too much investment?

is gavespawn the best sub faction right now?

[Satyrical Sophist]

32 minutes ago, Xs_0013 said:

  

hat are your thoughts on a shaggoth to support the DrOgres? too much investment?

 

The shaggoth is just SOO expensive, might be the most overcosted unit in the game? One of my favourite models is my converted Shaggoth, but he is cheering from the glass cabinet until he's at minimum 70 points cheaper, and maybe 100 points plus cheaper might be needed.