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Next Faction - What would you like to see?


Gaz Taylor

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21 minutes ago, Wolden Spoons said:

werewolves

Yes please.

Were-creatures of all sorts have always been a favorite of mine.  Vamps and Zombies have seen their time in the spotlight as horror tropes.  It's time to give Werewolves their due!!

Seriously, let's not even stop there.  I want were-boars, were-snakes, were-ravens, were-orangutans, were-megatheriums...  Ok, I know, I'm just getting silly now. 

But I personally didn't like the skin-wolves(?) from FW, and was even more upset that they ended up in my least favorite faction (Chaos).  That said, Chaos has more appeal to me in the realms than they did in the world that was.  So, if they got made and ended up in chaos again, I may be on board.

 

Edit:

My love of Wolf-men goes back to my early role playing days, and Palladium games.  Imo: Wolfen are what made that system.

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I'd really like to see things get filled out that have the beginnings of factions that aren't quite there. Some of the Aelf factions could use some love. Devoted of Sigmar seems to really want to be played as an independent army, but it doesn't quite have the tools yet. Death really needs to get some diversity added to it, and some extra incentive to take the factions in isolation and not just a "death" army.

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I'm afraid there's not much they can do with Death Alliance and it will always feel lesser to other Alliances. What else can they make besides zombies, ghouls, vampires, skelletons and ghosts? Maybe some death cultists but each and every other new faction will feel imposed. I already think that dead walkers and flesh-eater court should be one faction. I can easily think of 5 different factions for duardin or aelsfs but with death they all seem just to similar.

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1 hour ago, Aryann said:

I'm afraid there's not much they can do with Death Alliance and it will always feel lesser to other Alliances. What else can they make besides zombies, ghouls, vampires, skelletons and ghosts? Maybe some death cultists but each and every other new faction will feel imposed. I already think that dead walkers and flesh-eater court should be one faction. I can easily think of 5 different factions for duardin or aelsfs but with death they all seem just to similar.

A lot of fantasy gets stuck in a rut with undeath.

Put it this way: technically, there should be as much variation within ALL of death as there is variation within ALL other factions that live. That's just going from the simple background of "We raise the dead of other living races".

You can warp that though and branch out more into death as a kind of magic or just a uniting motivation behind a cold, logical bunch of factions.

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The funny thing is that even with the Alliance in such a lamentably anemic state, you're already wrong about it. Death has the potential to be just as varied as any other faction.

At present, the Death Alliance includes mindless slaves raised by necromancy (Deadwalkers), self-willed undead with their own nations and interests (Deathrattle), vampires with their own unique glorious/macabre style (Soulblight), insane cannibals only loosely allied to the self-proclaimed lord of the dead (Flesh Eaters), mortal necromancers concerned with advancing their own power (Deathmages), and the lord of the dead and his personal guard (Deathlords). Within those factions, we have already seen the beginnings of some varied playstyes as well, including horde tactics (Deadwalkers), grim and implacable professional soldiers (Deathrattle), and a weird mix of feudal mobs-supporting-knights and guerilla tactics (Flesh Eaters).

And there are still unexplored possibilities! What about Shyish's Human population? We know that it has them! Could they have evolved a unique society and way of war shaped by their strange Realm? In many fantasy worlds, death is a cosmic evil, an inherently twisted anti-life, and we could see a faction reflecting that. And what about the "proper" functioning of an afterlife - could we see a Death faction that is loosely allied with Nagash as the least evil but is actually ANTI-undead?

Obviously, I'm doing a lot of making stuff up, but my point is: the Death Alliance has a lot of potential. It just needs to be explored. 

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7 hours ago, Aryann said:

I'm afraid there's not much they can do with Death Alliance and it will always feel lesser to other Alliances. What else can they make besides zombies, ghouls, vampires, skelletons and ghosts? Maybe some death cultists but each and every other new faction will feel imposed. I already think that dead walkers and flesh-eater court should be one faction. I can easily think of 5 different factions for duardin or aelsfs but with death they all seem just to similar.

Think of it this way, you haven't just described the number of factions in Death, but instead a few of the 'races' in Death.

Each of those races could have a number of ways to implement them in terms of the AoS world.  Sure, you won't get a ton of variety of out Zombies, but there is a ton of variety to be had in Soulblight, Deathrattle, and ghosts.

On a side note, I'm not sure this could be a complete faction on its own, but I'd love an undead paladin unit at least.  Similar to anti-paladins in D&D or Deathknights in WoW.  In AoS parlance, it might be an Anti-Stormcast.  I think there is actually a fairly good chance of this happening, based on the fluff.  Nagash seems a little obsessed with the Stormcast, how they are made, and why their souls aren't coming to him...

 

 

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I'd love some twisted Stormcast, I'm kicking around an idea in the back of my head for a Heroes of Shyish chamber. Lots of scary iconography and the like, almost an AoS Night Lords.

Yes! I wonder how long we'll have to wait for our 'heresy'. Chaos Stormcast would be sweet. I get that it's very close to chaos warriors, but they seem to have such a minor role now it wouldn't be stepping on toes. Imagine stormcast with spikes and mutations etc.

I've never been interested in elves before but the mistweaver has got me curious about that faction. Eldar masks on fantasy elves seems like a pretty cool look to me.

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5 minutes ago, Rend 4 said:

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really hope we never see corrupted stormcast, they should be incorruptible the antithesis of chaos.

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I agree... to a point. See my earlier post in this thread about wanting to see Stormcast corrupted/reverse engineered by Nagash and/or the Skaven, not the big four dark gods Sigmar specifically built them to combat.

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I want a revamped Dark Elves (Aelves?) that doesn't necessarily belong in Order.  Long long ago DE were my first WHFB army and I really liked them from a fluff and play perspective.

Really though I just want something other than Order or Chaos.  As much as I love my Chaos Space Marines in 40k I really don't want Chaos Stormcast, I think it would be super cheesy.  Maybe like a single character who is a fallen Stormcast (I mean there is a named Stormcast who was a Champion of Nurgle IIRC and was redeemed), but not an entire army of them.  As cool as it would be.

Maybe something totally new, like an elemental army.  Like all Fire Elementals or something.  Idk might be pushing into Sylvaneth's territory with wood spirits.  But i do think something other than just updating an old WHFB army with a new name and look could be a good change of pace; AOS is supposed to be a fantastical, almost impossible reality, so I think we need some things that highlight that aspect of the world not just going all "xtreme" revamp of the old factions like some revised 90s TV show.

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7 minutes ago, Rend 4 said:

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really hope we never see corrupted stormcast, they should be incorruptible the antithesis of chaos.

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On the one hand, I'm not a fan of absolutes. I think that absolutes are the enemy of depth when it comes to narrative.

On the other hand, I am also not a fan of tired tropes, such as making your bad guy by simply inverting your good guy and having him join the faction he formerly opposed.

I think that if I were to do "bad Stormcast," I'd do it by saying that they go too far and are disavowed by Sigmar - and in turn, condemn Sigmar as unwilling to "do what is necessary" to save the Realms. They become embodiments of Law, just as inimical to life, in their way, as Chaos is, which complicates the politics of the situation. You can count on them to help you fight Chaos, but you can't necessarily count on on them not to wipe you out afterwards for having an insufficiently orderly society.

That way, we can see the dark side of what Sigmar has done to these people, turning them into incarnations of Law without conscience or past, but without falling down the "good guys turned into bad guys!" hole.

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On the one hand, I'm not a fan of absolutes. I think that absolutes are the enemy of depth when it comes to narrative.

On the other hand, I am also not a fan of tired tropes, such as making your bad guy by simply inverting your good guy and having him join the faction he formerly opposed.

I think that if I were to do "bad Stormcast," I'd do it by saying that they go too far and are disavowed by Sigmar - and in turn, condemn Sigmar as unwilling to "do what is necessary" to save the Realms. They become embodiments of Law, just as inimical to life, in their way, as Chaos is, which complicates the politics of the situation. You can count on them to help you fight Chaos, but you can't necessarily count on on them not to wipe you out afterwards for having an insufficiently orderly society.

That way, we can see the dark side of what Sigmar has done to these people, turning them into incarnations of Law without conscience or past, but without falling down the "good guys turned into bad guys!" hole.

I can see the point here as well. Generally my beef is with the lets just make every faction have a chaos faction! I think that is hideously boring, but I do like the idea of a single corrupted stormcast. However I'm not sure that stormcast wouldn't get a good finger wag from sigmar upon reforging. It would be tough to make it work.

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7 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:

The funny thing is that even with the Alliance in such a lamentably anemic state, you're already wrong about it. Death has the potential to be just as varied as any other faction.

 

4 hours ago, MechaBriZilla said:

Think of it this way, you haven't just described the number of factions in Death, but instead a few of the 'races' in Death.

 

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I have anything against this Alliance. It's just that it looks poor in terms of volume and diversity in comparison especially to Order and Chaos.  Just to make it plain simple - Grand Alliance Death book is 88 page long while Grand Alliance Order is 280. The second is 3 times bigger, it has 21 factions compared to 8 provided by GAD book. Sylvaneth, Stormcasts, multiple Aelfs, multiple Duardin, Seraphon and many more compared to few pretty similar Death factions. That's not a gap. It's an abyss when we look at the content. And again I would like to repeat I'm not criticising Death players or anything. While building my collection I would like to have at least one army from each Grand Alliance. So far I have only Stormcasts and Bloodbound. Picked up Sylvaneth Battletome lately and sometime in December I'm probably buying Start Collecting! Sylvaneth with paint's required.

It's just that I feel like buying Fyreslayers, Stormcasts and Sylvaneth will provide me much more diversity and uniqeness than Deadwalkers, Flesh-eater Courts and Nighthaunts. I get some your points about how this Alliance can be expanded but I don't think it will ever come close to those of Order or Chaos. If I was to bet I would say that Death will get one new battletome after Order gets three, Chaos two and Destruction one Battletome. It makes them fall behind.

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17 minutes ago, Aryann said:

 

 

Don't get me wrong. It's not that I have anything against this Alliance. It's just that it looks poor in terms of volume and diversity in comparison especially to Order and Chaos.  Just to make it plain simple - Grand Alliance Death book is 88 page long while Grand Alliance Order is 280. The second is 3 times bigger, it has 21 factions compared to 8 provided by GAD book. Sylvaneth, Stormcasts, multiple Aelfs, multiple Duardin, Seraphon and many more compared to few pretty similar Death factions. That's not a gap. It's an abyss when we look at the content. And again I would like to repeat I'm not criticising Death players or anything. While building my collection I would like to have at least one army from each Grand Alliance. So far I have only Stormcasts and Bloodbound. Picked up Sylvaneth Battletome lately and sometime in December I'm probably buying Start Collecting! Sylvaneth with paint's required.

It's just that I feel like buying Fyreslayers, Stormcasts and Sylvaneth will provide me much more diversity and uniqeness than Deadwalkers, Flesh-eater Courts and Nighthaunts. I get some your points about how this Alliance can be expanded but I don't think it will ever come close to those of Order or Chaos. If I was to bet I would say that Death will get one new battletome after Order gets three, Chaos two and Destruction one Battletome. It makes them fall behind.

Actually, you just made a point I've been pitching across this forum left, right, and center.  Death needs more Battletomes.  Battletomes that include entirely new models and currently non-existing factions.

Anyway, what you are seeing there is the effect of the Old World, and how things were collapsed to create AoS/The Realms. What I mean by that is in WHFB, there were two Death allied factions.  In the transition we lost one of those entirely, Tomb Kings, and the other, Vampire Counts, was spread thin to create an entire Grand Alliance.  This doesn't prohibit the potential of GA:D in anyway, it just means that it starts at a deficit.  It could, potentially if not probably, be expended to encompass as many, if not more factions as any other GA.  Not that I think that will ever happen.

However, this whole issue is the only thing about AoS that has been a complete and total disappointment for me personally.  If GW intended to wait so long before beginning to really fill out GA:D, they never should have removed Tomb Kings.  We've sat and watched as every other faction has gotten at least 3 (iirc) new Battletomes, and some new models.  While Death is sitting around on our thumbs with one new Battletome and no new models.  And, if rumors are to be believed, no new Death Battletomes on the horizon.

Don't get me wrong, I love AoS, and am happier than I've ever been with GW in general.  I will be waiting patiently for GA:D to get the love it so desperately needs/deserves.  But I am seriously frustrated at the lack of attention it's gotten so far.

Anyway, not trying to hijack the thread.  My real point is just that a current lack of content doesn't mean no future content or room to expand.  The potential is all there for whatever they want to do.  It just needs to be done.

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After being reformed so many times, don't they kinda lose part of themselves and become order zombies anyhow?

I definitely agree that if anyone gets their hands on Eternals it's got to be Nagash.

On that note, I've no doubts that something nasty is brewing up in the background for death. Just chill. Paint up something else or focus on new models for death that are battleline units. (Spirit Hosts, Morghast, etc) So when the time comes all you'll have to do is paint up a few new models and bam, instant 2k army!

AoS is still new in my book so be patient.

My bets still on a new or expanded Death lords first. I'm thinking lots of basic infantry/calvary that combines the Gothic and Egyptian styles of the newer models.

And I'm sooo down!

New dynamic skelleys ,that aren't all standing the same, on 32mm?...

New Skelley calvary knights, the size of gruntas/varanguard?...

skelley archer/crossbow kit?.....

Yes please.

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

After being reformed so many times, don't they kinda lose part of themselves and become order zombies anyhow?

I definitely agree that if anyone gets their hands on Eternals it's got to be Nagash.

On that note, I've no doubts that something nasty is brewing up in the background for death. Just chill. Paint up something else or focus on new models for death that are battleline units. (Spirit Hosts, Morghast, etc) So when the time comes all you'll have to do is paint up a few new models and bam, instant 2k army!

AoS is still new in my book so be patient.

My bets still on a new or expanded Death lords first. I'm thinking lots of basic infantry/calvary that combines the Gothic and Egyptian styles of the newer models.

And I'm sooo down!

New dynamic skelleys ,that aren't all standing the same, on 32mm?...

New Skelley calvary knights, the size of gruntas/varanguard?...

skelley archer/crossbow kit?.....

Yes please.

 

 

These thoughts are what keep me going.

;)

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