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MechaBriZilla

Grand Alliance Death - A Rant

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I almost appended this into the Deathrattle thread, then realized I was letting things get away a bit, and didn't want to hijack things over there.  

So now you may choose to read this rambling post or not, without it interrupting your regularly scheduled programming.  I do want to say, despite the tone and title of my post, I'm still happier with AoS and GW than I have been in years.  Nothing currently can outweigh the optimism I have for what is being done in AoS.  In my mind it is ground breaking, and by far the best entry to the table top mini's wargame in some time.

Now... with that disclaimer, here's where I go negative.

Anyway, I suspect (and hope) one of the reasons we've waited so long for Death Battletomes is because more than any other Grand Alliance, we need more new kit support.  Where other Alliances had several of the old WHFB factions rolled into their GA, with Destruction getting the fewest old world armies next to us, we got one.  Pre-AoS, there were two functioning Death factions, that has been reduced to one (My personal favorite of the two being left behind, which still smarts a bit).  Ghouls, surprisingly to me at least, were the only part of our new GA that were even close to having a fully formed faction.  Though, Deathrattle may be next closest, if you don't count a possible Deathlords battletome, that could work in a similar manner to the Everchosen Battletome.  Soulblight could be close as well.  However, I tend to discount them, as their faction at present seems to be made entirely of kits that are either Hero's, Elite, or chaff.  I also personally think they need more new kits.  IMO, there just isn't much in the old Soulblight kits that inspires.  The Coven throne is the only new-ish model, though I'd add the Zombie Dragon even though it isn't currently in that list, as it has a Vamp mount option.  You may also get away with keeping a few of the hero models, but they are mostly dated sculpts that I'd like to see go away.

That leaves Deathrattle.  DR has some great kits.  Skellies, Gravegaurd and Deathknights are pretty good kits.  The Wight King is nice, and even though I don't really like the finecast kits, Krell/Wight King w/ ax, is beautiful. 

But ultimately what GA:Death needs most is more Battletomes that stand well on their own, and in current context, that just isn't happening for Deathrattle, if it's given an all old kit release, even if they are able to come up with a few alternate builds out of those kits.  It needs at least one or two more kits, and some Hero options we just don't have yet.  (Seriously, the old mounted wight king model needs to go away. Now.)

One thing that dusts me, not that it makes me mad at anyone personally, is the talk about building a half-faction for death, more similar to Beastclaw, or Fyreslayers, (possibly even Bonesplitters, though I haven't read the BT, it's reliance on so few models makes me worry it's pretty limited in use) or the merging of some of our vary thin current factions.  With such an anemic GA I won't be happy with anything less fully formed that what Stormcast, Sylvaneth, Pestilens, Seraphon, Bloodbound, and Ironjaws got. I want battletomes with a lot of options.  I know that (With the exception of Seraphon who were ported into AoS whole cloth)  AoS factions all seem to have missing elements or at least aren't as well rounded as old WHFB factions, which helps to encourage multi-battletome lists and I'm fine with that, but I'm pissed.  I'm seriously pissed that one year after release we still only have one Battletome, and that Battletome didn't include a single new model.  Just new ways to build old ones.  I know we technically got new models for End Times, but that was at the beginning, and it's been a while.  

I'd also be ok seeing an entirely new faction for our GA.  Maybe using a single kit from the old line, as the Ironjaws got.  But I don't want to get too crazy with my hopes, if I haven't already.

Where is the GA Death love?  

What would make you happy?  

Am I off my rocker?

As my favorite cheesy television series would have said,  should I 'really just relax'? (For Mystery Science Theater 3000)

Edited by MechaBriZilla
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Couldn't agree more. It's not that Death is bad from a power level perspective - they're actually quite strong - but many of the models are woefully outdated (looking at you Black Coach and Bat Swarms).

I'm still holding out for a Death release before the end of the year. It seems fitting to have one around Halloween right?

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1 minute ago, David Griffin said:

Couldn't agree more. It's not that Death is bad from a power level perspective - they're actually quite strong - but many of the models are woefully outdated (looking at you Black Coach and Bat Swarms).

I'm still holding out for a Death release before the end of the year. It seems fitting to have one around Halloween right?

Is Halloween a big enough thing in Britain for that to occur to GW?

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32 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said:

Is Halloween a big enough thing in Britain for that to occur to GW?

IDK, but it should be, right?

Thanks guys.  I appreciate the support.  I feel like every time a wish list thread comes up, someone steps up to say that one of our factions table ready.  Usually Soulblight or Deathrattle.  Usually they say that some other faction, commonly Death Mages, could be wrapped in and fix most of our problems.  I try not to get angry at the person, we are after all, engaging in speculation and wish listing.  But the thought of another GA:D faction getting released without a new model drives me nuts.

In my eagerness to hit publish, without making my post unreadable, I skipped two things that also get me a bit upset about any GA:D discussion I see.  

First, no list that we are making now, should require or even want to have a TK unit added.  I love TK, but if GW shelved them, and you can't buy them without sacrificing your first born to get the cash to afford them, they shouldn't be a suggestion for a list.  Sure you can play them, and I hope people do for a long, long time.  Long enough in fact that GW decides to bring them back.  But they certainly aren't an option for a player on any kind of budget, and should never be suggested to a new player who is testing the waters.  

Second, Blood Knights!!!!!  Common.  99usd for a battleline unit?  As much as I like them, I'd have never purchased them based on cost alone for a VC army in old WHFB....  Not to mention they are finecast, which I avoid as if Grandfather Nurgel had plucked them from an oozing pustule inside his own dripping nose.  I would loose all self respect after purchasing 5 cavalry models....  I know they are awesome, but come on!  If I ever use them, barring a new, less expensive kit, I'd have to kit bash them from something much cheaper...  Even if the kits I used came out to more than the price of the Blood Knights, at least I'd have my principals and extra bits to stand on...

Man...  

I really should just relax...

Grrr....  Where is Crow T. Robot when you need him?

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You think death have it bad - the Empire (or free people's) are literally the only army in the world-that-was that actually believed in Sigmar! Now they're little more than a few side factions, and it's anyone's guess what they'll end up being when they're finally revisited!

All joking aside, I understand where you're coming from, but Death did recieve a fair amount of love with the End Times models. AOS is moving in a fantastic direction, and I don't think you'll have to wait long in the grand scheme of things to see some additional stuff.

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It was telling that (according to the Livestream) there were only 10 Death armies at The Warlords and zero Nagashes. The Mourngul is the lone brightspot. FEC are a good army, but pretty mono-directional -  they also have some horrible weaknesses, like 12 buffed Crypt Horrors and 50 Ghouls being unable to scratch 10 Temple Guard (or even some Treelords) with the 2+ rerollable save.

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2 hours ago, Nico said:

 with the 2+ rerollable save.

Surely that is more a problem with the availability of a save like that, which I thought/wished/hoped we were moving away from, than anything to do with the Faction?

 

Neil

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FEC do have an answer i.e. Crypt Flayers. I don't think there's a problem with good saves due to the existence of mortal wounds. 

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18 hours ago, ElectricPaladin said:

Is Halloween a big enough thing in Britain for that to occur to GW?

I'd say Halloween has become much more mainstream over the past decade in the UK. I'm a 90s kids and there were very few Halloween parties in my part of the country (I grew up in North Wales). I also remember trick or treating being viewed as something just for troublemakers. However there a lots of parties these days and young kids trick or treating with their parents. Even my mum who use to class it as "American nonsense" gets stuck in and has a ridiculous amount of sweets on offer!

...anyway... the point is, if GW's marketing team have anything about them, a death release in Halloween week would be a great idea!

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1 hour ago, AdamJ said:

 "American nonsense"

This made me grin like a madman.

Truthfully, my love of Halloween started when I was a kid.  To me "American nonsense" is a great way to describe what's happened in the last decade or so.  Much like Christmas, Halloween is not just another overblown Holiday used to part consumers from their cash.  I liked it better when it was more imagination and less purchasing.  

But, there I go...  Not only have I derailed my own thread, but I also sound like a grumpy old man...  

"Back in my day we had to walk up 20 miles up hill both ways in a costume our moms made out of garbage bags and gum just to go trick-or-treating.  And you know what?  WE LIKED IT!!!!! Because it's all we had.  Damn kids today don't appreciate how hard we had it."

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@MechaBriZilla Haha! I should clarify I don't mean any offence to my American cousins. My mum is just as blunt as an Ogre's club! I've always had an ambition to be over in the States one day for Halloween, us Brits get the impression you guys are the kings of that holiday!

Anyway...has anyone heard any realistic sounding rumors of a death release before the year is out?

 

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@AdamJ, Not at all!  

I tend to believe that if you can't make fun of yourself, you are taking things a bit too seriously.  Besides, I think I'm going to adopt the phrase 'American Nonsense'.  Sure it will make my friends thing I'm pretentious, but it'll be good fun for me.

And Halloween is pretty awesome.  Like I say, it's gotten a bit on the expensive side.  Folks seem to be one-upping each other with their yard displays like they do with Christmas lights.  But at the end of the day, it's all a HELL of a lot of fun.  *See what I did there?*

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I see what you did :D

11 minutes ago, MechaBriZilla said:

Folks seem to be one-upping each other with their yard displays like they do with Christmas lights. 

Welcome to Christmas in the UK circa 2016! We give you AoS and you give us outdoor Christmas lights ;)!

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We'll I'm glad to see our consumer culture isn't being left to rot here in the States.  It'd be a shame if it didn't drain all of our bank accounts....

Of course, usually, by the time I'm done buying my mini's, I have little left for Christmas lights and plastic skeletons. ;)

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I can completely agree with most of your rant. I see a bunch of holes to patch up and as a Soul-blight player I feel the low model burn probably harder than the others BESIDES poor Deadwalkers who can't even be fielded as they have no hero. 

Anywho, I'd love to see some ground based infantry vampires in numbers, they can cost a pretty penny points wise, fine, whatever, but don't pretend like our extravagantly priced bats are a good substitute. I want my 10 man vampire battle-wizards being lead by my (Wonderfully kitbashed) Bloodknights and going into battle. Some support options would be grand as well, such as a vampire with access to healing other units. We pay out the nose, we should have some ways to mitigate fighting a 40 model blob with 5 cav models. 

I adore Halloween, I am that type of American nonsense, but I don't care. Bring on the spooky goodness next month GW and I'll love you forever. 

 

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oK, I know I'll be doom after my reply... but I have a ring of immrtality on me so I can take the risk as well^^

 

Sincerly I think we are the less ones in need of new models. Don't misunderstand me: I want new models. Simply I don't find it so urgent.

I try to explain it better.

Along EoT campaign we have seen finally brand new models to substitute the previous ones and ad to the last release of new models (the combo kit of Terror and ZD, new ghouls and skeletons) with the Morghasts, the Mortarchs,, Nagash, the spirit hosts, the black knights (Alleluja for these ones, I always hated the previous ones). Our army is probably, along the Seraphons (and maybe the Sylvaneth) one of the besr as details and "innovation". Really one of the best estetically.  The Blood knights, I've never counted them, as I modified the black knifght so I have done to them, WIh the same amount of money I was able to take individual vampires and personalize them (or take some bitz with the Sanguinary cavalier of the dualkit ZD/T and make them ride some fine horses ).

We ha ve lots of models those requires innovation (bats, mounted Whight Knights, Black coach even if I still love this model, and so on), moreover if combined with the Khemri side those have great sprues along with really old ones (skeletons, horse skeletons and so on).

But at the same time if I watch to other armies...they received much less attention: dwarfs, DE, HE, Empire, Bretonnia, and so on). There are a lot of factions whose require a lot of attention and we have to even consider that we have split the releases with Wh40k and other minor games. 

There are Battletomes whose are simply to release, but still they require time to also digest. If GW doesn't create new Khemri models, I doubt they will release a DeathRattle tome, and the other factions too are quite shorts.

Ok, seeing how they have multiplied are choices simply adding units with the different head so they had really hit big, at the same time maybe it was also the easiest the FEC Battletome cause it didn't require new models, even compressing them we have: Ghoul king, mounted ghoul king, crypt horrors, grypt flyers, ghouls, varghulf, terogheist and draogn zombie: so a minimum of 8 choices using the multikits. If we see at the other alliances we have much less choices, so they need to be implemented as well.

In case of a deadwalking we need much more models (and new zombies? even if they are really an evergreen^^), some meat creations (if not golems at least some giant zombie or some meat ball rolling around), and maybe some specialized necormancer or similar as leaser, in some way anyway we need a lot more choices.

Soulblights need new fell bats and swarm bats (the first ones I started to change them with self created flying cskeletons to have different and better models), some more enonomic blood knights, and maybe  a new black coach (yes, I think black coach is more suited with them than the nighthaunt).

About nighthaunt we need much more models, they are too few.

 

So in the end, we need for some alliances quite a bit of work and for some ones there would be quiite a few of new release necessaries. It has also to say that the ones who have suffered less environment backlasch are us itself. 

Destruction order and Chaos have had a good amount of theme distortion and re-adjust  that has been not small. The order is simply too big for example, and so the caotic (the Chaos as only new Khorne models, but miss all the others). 

So although I'm too eager to have new material at my hands, I'm not so hungry about it cause I find what I have still quite a lot to try and develop in new ways. Instead I watch to the other armies more impatient to see how the new environment will be developed, the new era that is disclosing in fornt of us. 

As it has been said: it's only a jear the game is out. There has been quite a lot of releases, but we can't compare it with the more than 30 years of the development of the old fantasy and there is quite a lot of work to be done on it and a lot of material about it.

And what I like is that there seem to be something similar to a design in the progression with new armies presented on the development of the history so that we can see the new history being born newly.

 

Sorry, I prolonged my writing more than I should have, but I find the talking quite interesting and I wished to share my sight with you all.

And thanks if you have been able to read everything I wrote^^

Edited by deynon
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Well I am not going to do my prediction again of what is going to happen to soul blight(Said it many times before) but I will say one thing that truly hurt death with the general handbook release is the magic change. 

We desperately need our spell lore back even if you look in the ghoul book you see the ghoul king flinging people around with magic and considering we can only cast one type of spell a turn that REALLY hurt vampire heroes in my opinion. If we had more magic options I feel even ghouls can put out more damage. 

Vampire lords as they are now are too squishy and don't offer much since you can't cast the same spell more than once in a turn. 

I do feel the rest of Death is in a "odd" position considering in all the books and fluff vampires are still using zombies and skeletons along with a small groups of vampires here and there along with their "igors" necromancers. 

It will be interesting what GW does with the rest of Death I think it's the reason why we don't have a battletome for the other factions yet. They are simply not sure what to do and considering if they plan to use the factions as they are by themselves they need A LOT more new models. Hence why I believe certain factions may fuse with a new model here and there. 

Still I want new zombies GW please and thank you and elite vampire infantry and a god dam plastic vampire hero. IS THAT SO MUCH TO ASK!?

Edited by shinros

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I'm hoping that Nagash and the Mortarchs seem overcosted and unusable at the moment because they are going to have a fat lore of spells to use including buff spells. Also hoping that Nagash gets to know all the spells in the Lore.

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11 minutes ago, Nico said:

I'm hoping that Nagash and the Mortarchs seem overcosted and unusable at the moment because they are going to have a fat lore of spells to use including buff spells. Also hoping that Nagash gets to know all the spells in the Lore.

I think this is the case just think in the context of nagash, neferata and Arkhan they can cast twice in a turn and thinking in the context of the magic lore's that have been released. If the Death lore is on a similar power level of the current lore's the army buffs and damage spells they will put out will be great. 

Same with nagash considering how much magic he puts out and he knows the spells of other death wizards near him. Oh and if Arkhan is not in the deathrattle book, same with Neferata and Mannfred for soulblight I will blow a gasket. 

Soul blight is pretty much only heroes right now with no infantry what's so ever which confuses me considering the description of the soulblight section and deadwalkers. While Deathrattle is pretty much infantry with a "ok" hero and I don't even think the black knights exist apart from being a road block and grave guard being over costed for what they are. 

I think it's really telling when the current situation I feel is skeleton warriors > graveguard/black knights 

Plus necromancers being in their own faction is plain dumb. Hence why I suspect one of the factions are going to get fused into another. Soulblight having deadwalkers/necromancers fused into them solves their problems in one go(with hopefully new zombies/zombie ogre's and elite vampires infantry). Deathrattle can be developed more I am getting the feeling this will happen they talk about Krell in the deathrattle section and in the latest lord of undeath novel Arkhan is a Liche King well that's one of his titles. 

Like the FEC I do think they are going to get additional rules soul blight and deathrattle. 

Edited by shinros

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16 hours ago, deynon said:

oK, I know I'll be doom after my reply... but I have a ring of immrtality on me so I can take the risk as well^^

 

Sincerly I think we are the less ones in need of new models. Don't misunderstand me: I want new models. Simply I don't find it so urgent.

I try to explain it better.

Along EoT campaign we have seen finally brand new models to substitute the previous ones and ad to the last release of new models (the combo kit of Terror and ZD, new ghouls and skeletons) with the Morghasts, the Mortarchs,, Nagash, the spirit hosts, the black knights (Alleluja for these ones, I always hated the previous ones). Our army is probably, along the Seraphons (and maybe the Sylvaneth) one of the besr as details and "innovation". Really one of the best estetically.  The Blood knights, I've never counted them, as I modified the black knifght so I have done to them, WIh the same amount of money I was able to take individual vampires and personalize them (or take some bitz with the Sanguinary cavalier of the dualkit ZD/T and make them ride some fine horses ).

We ha ve lots of models those requires innovation (bats, mounted Whight Knights, Black coach even if I still love this model, and so on), moreover if combined with the Khemri side those have great sprues along with really old ones (skeletons, horse skeletons and so on).

But at the same time if I watch to other armies...they received much less attention: dwarfs, DE, HE, Empire, Bretonnia, and so on). There are a lot of factions whose require a lot of attention and we have to even consider that we have split the releases with Wh40k and other minor games. 

There are Battletomes whose are simply to release, but still they require time to also digest. If GW doesn't create new Khemri models, I doubt they will release a DeathRattle tome, and the other factions too are quite shorts.

Ok, seeing how they have multiplied are choices simply adding units with the different head so they had really hit big, at the same time maybe it was also the easiest the FEC Battletome cause it didn't require new models, even compressing them we have: Ghoul king, mounted ghoul king, crypt horrors, grypt flyers, ghouls, varghulf, terogheist and draogn zombie: so a minimum of 8 choices using the multikits. If we see at the other alliances we have much less choices, so they need to be implemented as well.

In case of a deadwalking we need much more models (and new zombies? even if they are really an evergreen^^), some meat creations (if not golems at least some giant zombie or some meat ball rolling around), and maybe some specialized necormancer or similar as leaser, in some way anyway we need a lot more choices.

Soulblights need new fell bats and swarm bats (the first ones I started to change them with self created flying cskeletons to have different and better models), some more enonomic blood knights, and maybe  a new black coach (yes, I think black coach is more suited with them than the nighthaunt).

About nighthaunt we need much more models, they are too few.

 

So in the end, we need for some alliances quite a bit of work and for some ones there would be quiite a few of new release necessaries. It has also to say that the ones who have suffered less environment backlasch are us itself. 

Destruction order and Chaos have had a good amount of theme distortion and re-adjust  that has been not small. The order is simply too big for example, and so the caotic (the Chaos as only new Khorne models, but miss all the others). 

So although I'm too eager to have new material at my hands, I'm not so hungry about it cause I find what I have still quite a lot to try and develop in new ways. Instead I watch to the other armies more impatient to see how the new environment will be developed, the new era that is disclosing in fornt of us. 

As it has been said: it's only a jear the game is out. There has been quite a lot of releases, but we can't compare it with the more than 30 years of the development of the old fantasy and there is quite a lot of work to be done on it and a lot of material about it.

And what I like is that there seem to be something similar to a design in the progression with new armies presented on the development of the history so that we can see the new history being born newly.

 

Sorry, I prolonged my writing more than I should have, but I find the talking quite interesting and I wished to share my sight with you all.

And thanks if you have been able to read everything I wrote^^

Ok Denyon, you better role your save!

Kidding. ;)  

I actually appreciate your point.  But I do feel that mine still stands.  Though you are correct that there are a lot of minor factions hanging out there, without support, I'm looking at the broader Grand Alliance category.  When you look there, you'll begin to see that Death has really been left out in the cold.

Some quick numbers, please let me know if I've missed something.

Order: 21 total factions / 5 Battletomes

Chaos: 21 total factions /  3 Battletomes

Destruction: 12 total factions / 3 Battletomes

Death: 7 total factions / 1 Battletome

I don't have time to really look at it, but this only starts to scrape the surface of the problem with Death's model diversity...  I do feel for the players of other currently ignored factions, but I don't think asking that Death gets the next 2 battletomes (only bringing us up to the next lowest GA on the list, Destruction) is too much to ask.

A big part of what bothers me, as I mainly paint and get little time to play, is the lack of aesthetic choices.  Everything from our army still looks like it belongs with the Vampire Counts.  Ok, not everything, Flesh Eaters really do look pretty distinct.  But my personal favorite, the Deathrattle faction, still has the bat wing iconography over everything.  Granted, I doubt that's going away anytime soon, as I suspect that even with a new release, many of the Deathrattle kits will continue to see service.  

Also, I want more of the Death fluff.  Look how well GW did making Ironjaws and Bonesplitters feel different.  They are both Oruks, but they are very different thematically, and in their fluff.  I want the faction to move away from everyone being some vampires lackey, or if they choose to keep the vamps as the nobility of the grand alliance, then I want more variety of vampires.  Abhorrent Ghoul Kings are a great step in that direction.

I'm jealous of the other GA's.  They feel diverse, as if they really are a loose confederacy of factions with as many differences as they have commonalities.  That mainly they work together, not because they all have the same end goals, but more because they have the have the same fears and enemies.  Fyreslayers and Stormcast couldn't have more different reasons for fighting than they do.  Whereas death, for the most part, still feels like the soulless mindless minions of Nagash and his Mortarchs.  Excepting Flesh Eaters, the one battletome we have.  That's what I want.  More fully fleshed out, pardon the figure of speech,  armies.  Armies who have their own motivations, history, and organizations.  

We are just too bare bones at the moment...  Especially with the lost of Tomb Kings.  And of course, I would love to have them back as much as anyone.  I even have my own pet conspiracy theories about how they could return, but the truth is, I really do believe they are gone forever.  Which leaves death feeling a bit one, or two (because of the FEC BT) dimensional at the moment.

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I have a feeling they will get rid of the current Death Factions. They just don't match the current trend in AoS. A skeleton doesn't fight for any single faction (Death Rattle), it all depends on who raised them. Right now, with no new factions it's something easy to help get some synergies for Death.

What I expect to see is a Battletome for each Mortarch. Outlining either the alliances they have gained (fellow vampires or a summoned Wight King) and the units they summon etc.  GW can then give these units different flavour depending on who summons them, or from the region they are summoned (Neferata summoning from cities around Nulahmia).

This will breed fresh life (pun intended) into the Death Alliance without having to bring out lots of new units.

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3 hours ago, MechaBriZilla said:

Ok Denyon, you better role your save!

Kidding. ;)  

I actually appreciate your point.  But I do feel that mine still stands.  Though you are correct that there are a lot of minor factions hanging out there, without support, I'm looking at the broader Grand Alliance category.  When you look there, you'll begin to see that Death has really been left out in the cold.

Some quick numbers, please let me know if I've missed something.

Order: 21 total factions / 5 Battletomes

Chaos: 21 total factions /  3 Battletomes

Destruction: 12 total factions / 3 Battletomes

Death: 7 total factions / 1 Battletome

I don't have time to really look at it, but this only starts to scrape the surface of the problem with Death's model diversity...  I do feel for the players of other currently ignored factions, but I don't think asking that Death gets the next 2 battletomes (only bringing us up to the next lowest GA on the list, Destruction) is too much to ask.

A big part of what bothers me, as I mainly paint and get little time to play, is the lack of aesthetic choices.  Everything from our army still looks like it belongs with the Vampire Counts.  Ok, not everything, Flesh Eaters really do look pretty distinct.  But my personal favorite, the Deathrattle faction, still has the bat wing iconography over everything.  Granted, I doubt that's going away anytime soon, as I suspect that even with a new release, many of the Deathrattle kits will continue to see service.  

Also, I want more of the Death fluff.  Look how well GW did making Ironjaws and Bonesplitters feel different.  They are both Oruks, but they are very different thematically, and in their fluff.  I want the faction to move away from everyone being some vampires lackey, or if they choose to keep the vamps as the nobility of the grand alliance, then I want more variety of vampires.  Abhorrent Ghoul Kings are a great step in that direction.

I'm jealous of the other GA's.  They feel diverse, as if they really are a loose confederacy of factions with as many differences as they have commonalities.  That mainly they work together, not because they all have the same end goals, but more because they have the have the same fears and enemies.  Fyreslayers and Stormcast couldn't have more different reasons for fighting than they do.  Whereas death, for the most part, still feels like the soulless mindless minions of Nagash and his Mortarchs.  Excepting Flesh Eaters, the one battletome we have.  That's what I want.  More fully fleshed out, pardon the figure of speech,  armies.  Armies who have their own motivations, history, and organizations.  

We are just too bare bones at the moment...  Especially with the lost of Tomb Kings.  And of course, I would love to have them back as much as anyone.  I even have my own pet conspiracy theories about how they could return, but the truth is, I really do believe they are gone forever.  Which leaves death feeling a bit one, or two (because of the FEC BT) dimensional at the moment.

I rolled the save, I twined it...and I still failed glab.. as usual... -_-'

I stand your point too, it is what I wish more^^ Simply I find anyway quite good for now. It's true that order has had a lot of new races, but how many there are there?

And so for the other GA.

See at theend how many races there are in Death side: 2 maximum.

Ok, we have a lot more variety cause we have a lot of different styles of playing, but sincerly... think about the FEC: how many new models has it been needed o realse it? None. Even the Bg has been quite good (also if the return of Ushoran is such a way I didn't like completely), but it's in some way a copy of the Necron Bg so it has not been so difficult to obtain it.

 

I want too new models and a new Battletome, and maybe I'm one of the most eager to have the Deathrattle one, even only cause I have around 200 skeletons waiting to be used^^ (not counting the filles and dioramas^^, I'm craxzy, I know).

About others GA... you know...I'm not. Strangely our one is one of the most organic ones. I played a battle against dispossessed and...I had even in GH book much easy time to find the costs of everything.

 

What I hope is the stylish around Black knights, Mortarchs morghasts, skeletons, Nagash and so on will continue  forth on, cause we have some of the best models (and more delicate to assemple). But really fine and a real spectacle to see on the field.

Unlucky or lucky the style of the undead is really awesome and actual even in the new environment. What I think it will change it will not bethe troops, but the leaders. Except the wight knight, think about it: vampires are out of environment. I love some models, but I think there will be a restilish of the classic vampire (with a return to the origin) with the blood lines. FEC is the first step, but if continued it would need more Battletomes than Destruction only to a side of the Death alliance.

TThe tomb king I think they will "resurrect" with the Deathrattle Battletome, or maybe a Stone one (considering the amount of statue basis they have).

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I won't be surprised if we see a somewhat reimagining of tomb kings/deathrattle similar to how Ironjawz/fyreslayers were done.

Either of these new factions aren't really anything new just reimagining of old material.

I'd imagine these will be more on looks with Nagash and Morghasts, somewhat of a mixture of old Gothic and that TK Egyptian flare.

And I'd be fine with this.

Edited by Vasshpit
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That's a good point @Vasshpit, but I think it's important to note who did and didn't get a Start Collecting! box.

Who did (and what has happened to them so far):

  • Stormcast - a flagship faction with all-new models.
  • Khorne Bloodbound - a flagship faction with all-new models.
  • Seraphon - a new battletome that uses very nearly all their old models, and definitely uses all the models in the box.
  • Flesh-Eaters - a new battletome that carves out a nice set of models from the old Vampire Counts line, establishing them as a new faction.
  • Sylvaneth - a combination of old and new models for a new faction.
  • Ironjawz - all new models, all new faction.
  • Skaven Pestilens - the only Skaven clan to get a battletome, the only one to get a Start Collecting! box.

 

  • Malignants - a box for a keyword that isn't yet organized into an actual faction in the General's Handbook.
  • Skeleton Horde - contains all models with the Deathrattle keyword, plus a random mortarch.
  • Daemons of X - old models, no battletome yet.
  • Slaves to Darkness -  old models, no battletome yet.
  • Greenskinz - all usable within the Savage Orruk faction, but no battletome yet.

 

Consider all the factions who did not get a Start Collecting! box... Duardin, who have been split into two factions, one new with new models, one old but rumored to be getting new models, the old Aelves who seem to be diversifying into radically new - and exaggerated - versions of themselves (Sylvaneth for Wood Elves, and I predict some sort of light/shadow beings replacing High/Dark Elves). The various Free Peoples who are probably going to either fall by the wayside as backup singers for the Stormcast or get a radical re-imagining at some point.

My guess is that the next few battletomes will either clean up and organize factions that do have boxes, but no book (Malignants replacing Nighthaunt, some kind of skeleton book, either an all-daemon book or a set of god-specific daemon books, generic slaves to darkness, and Savage Orruks) or be entirely new lines (steampunk Duardin, weirdo Aelf-critters, etc).

Edited by ElectricPaladin
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