Rampant Speculation: Completed Deathrattle

[ElectricPaladin]

Assuming that Deathrattle is going to be "completed" - ie. its own Battletome with more units, unique command traits and artefacts, maybe even a lore if they get any wizards - what do you think that would look like? What do you think is likely to be added to Deathrattle to bring it up to speed?

I think this is a particularly interesting question for Deathrattle, because of all the Death factions without Battletomes, it is by far the closest to complete. A little one-note, sure, with only a few leader options, normal infantry, elite infantry, and cavalry, but it's got just barely enough variety to be fun and competitive, as well as a decent team-player in alliance-level Death armies. With Nighthaunts, for example, the question is much more open, since the faction doesn't really make any sense as it stands now. With Soulblight, we know that the faction will see significant changes because there are so many gaping holes (ie. affordable Battleline). But Deathrattle? It feels almost done, just really... small.

Thoughts?

[inunn]

I would like to see some new archers that fit the theme (I.e not tomb kings) that buff in a similar way to the skeleton warriors. I like the idea that Deathrattle forces  are like complete armies with all the roles you'd expect so I'd like it if the lack of range was addressed somehow.

 

[WillofNagash]

I don't feel like soulblight is incomplete,  i prefer expensive battline because it means less models to paint and transport. I love how well my deathrattle do in battle, don't get me wrong, but pushing a unit of 40 skeletons around sucks. I can't imagine doing 3 units of 40... Would be killer in combat but so many models to move. What I'm trying to say is deathrattle needs something like necropolis Knights or similar low model count unit that is beast.

[ElectricPaladin]

16 minutes ago, WillofNagash said:

I don't feel like soulblight is incomplete,  i prefer expensive battline because it means less models to paint and transport. I love how well my deathrattle do in battle, don't get me wrong, but pushing a unit of 40 skeletons around sucks. I can't imagine doing 3 units of 40... Would be killer in combat but so many models to move. What I'm trying to say is deathrattle needs something like necropolis Knights or similar low model count unit that is beast.

You might prefer it, but it does make it very hard to assemble an army in matched play. I'd say that it's incomplete as long as it's quite so skewed towards such high points.

[bottle]

Right now Deathrattle is really just a skeleton of a faction in my opinion, and I think even with a battletome they'll still be pretty bare-boned. But who knows? Maybe they'll get fleshed out in time.

[Vasshpit]

If you take into account the other NINE  deathrattle units available then the faction has many options. You just have to completely build them yourself or use old tomb kings

I'm looking forward to building these actually.  I'm going to use a mortarch dread abysall for my warsphinx conversion. If I ever get around to it..... heh.

I'd really just like to see new models for these all in all though.

[ElectricPaladin]

1 hour ago, Vasshpit said:

If you take into account the other NINE  deathrattle units available then the faction has many options. You just have to completely build them yourself or use old tomb kings

True, but... I doubt we're just going to see technically discontinued Tomb Kings kits folded into Deathrattle. They don't have a unified look. So sure, you can do that now if you want to - I'm putting together a unit of skeleton archers as we speak! - but I don't think that's the future of the faction.

[Vasshpit]

That may of come off as a bit harsh... not what I was intending. I just ment we have many options, we just have to build them ouselves.

Truth be told I would like Deathrattle to stay as they are now, the classic undead army. I would just like a complete reboot of all existing model. As in brought up to scale and such.

I read here and there that the next silver tower expansion will be Death oriented so here's to hoping new models for this faction.

@ElectricPaladin How are you doing your archers?

[ElectricPaladin]

11 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

@ElectricPaladin How are you doing your archers?

Reaper has three different kinds of skeletal archers, all of them available through their super inexpensive Bones series. Blisters of three skeletons each for $6.00 each. That's eighteen skeletons for $18! Then, all I need to do to fill out the unit is a standard bearer and a musician, both of which I can make from GW bits bought through eBay... though I might see if I can get ahold of the OOP metal skeleton command blister for more variety. Three different kinds of skeletal archers in a unit of 20 is pretty good, and it will give the unit a more patchwork Deathrattle feel than a sleek and clean Tomb Kings feel.

[ElectricPaladin]

11 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

I read here and there that the next silver tower expansion will be Death oriented so here's to hoping new models for this faction.

There are so many rumors that I want to be true... Death-themed Silver Tower (I'm unlikely to buy Silver Tower - though I want to - but that does mean models that will presently be available individually),  a book to update factions with allegiance-level command traits, artefacts, and lores... but it looks like I'll be waiting for a while, sadly .

[MechaBriZilla]

On 9/17/2016 at 1:03 AM, Vasshpit said:

@ElectricPaladin How are you doing your archers?

I have an idea on this myself, I have some left over TK bits, from some skellies I built with hand weapons from the TK sprue.  I'm thinking about taking the archer arms and attaching them to the VC skellies.  Not sure how it will look though, as the VC skellies tend to be a bit more slim than the TK ones.  Anyway, if it works out, TK archer skellie bits aren't all that expensive on eBay.  They seem to be one of the few TK things not to have tripled in price after GW cut the line.

As for what I'd like to see... Man, where does the wish list end.

For Starters:

I'd like to see Skelleton Gargants.  Something not as lame looking as the old bone giant.

A casters of some sort.

A Skelleton Dragon with Wight King mount option.

Something to fill a monsterous infantry or Cav slot. Could do lots of things here, since you can just make a skeletal version of any existing unit from another line.  But it might be nice to have something more original.  

Would be cool to have orc skellies....  

a Wight King on a round base.   I'm frustrated by the fact that my wight kings foot is attached to a square base...  Not being a great customizer myself, I'm a bit at a loss as to how to put him on a round base...

But most importantly, once there is a deathrattle battletome, I want it to be so awesome that no one ever suggests using TK units in a Deathrattle army again.  Don't get me wrong, my first undead army was/is TK.  I wish nothing more than for Settra to make a glorious return in the Age of Sigmar.  But I have a problem with the aesthetic conflict between the TK and what Deathrattle is now.  Just can't reconcile the two.  Though, one day if I get better at converting, I wouldn't mind using some of the TK warscrolls for my DR army, I'd prefer it not be necessary nor optimal.

 

[Vasshpit]

3 hours ago, MechaBriZilla said:

I have an idea on this myself, I have some left over TK bits, from some skellies I built with hand weapons from the TK sprue.  I'm thinking about taking the archer arms and attaching them to the VC skellies.  Not sure how it will look though, as the VC skellies tend to be a bit more slim than the TK ones.  Anyway, if it works out, TK archer skellie bits aren't all that expensive on eBay.  They seem to be one of the few TK things not to have tripled in price after GW cut the line.

 

I had this same idea  I even bought 40 tk archer arms...... when I finally received them I realized they're all left handed......

My ocd kicked in and if I decide to use them I'll have to convert all up to holding the bow properly.  I'll prob even do some more dynamic poses.

I'm going to hold off though and just build up a grand legion of Spearman,  swords and black knights.

Speaking of black knights, I'm a thinking about building mine up with swords as their 1" range makes no sense for having a huge lance.....

Plus my girlfriends cat already broke one off.....

Hoping it's not a mess up on the stats line.

[ElectricPaladin]

1 hour ago, MechaBriZilla said:

I have an idea on this myself, I have some left over TK bits, from some skellies I built with hand weapons from the TK sprue.  I'm thinking about taking the archer arms and attaching them to the VC skellies.  Not sure how it will look though, as the VC skellies tend to be a bit more slim than the TK ones.  Anyway, if it works out, TK archer skellie bits aren't all that expensive on eBay.  They seem to be one of the few TK things not to have tripled in price after GW cut the line.

As for what I'd like to see... Man, where does the wish list end.

For Starters:

I'd like to see Skelleton Gargants.  Something not as lame looking as the old bone giant.

A casters of some sort.

A Skelleton Dragon with Wight King mount option.

Something to fill a monsterous infantry or Cav slot. Could do lots of things here, since you can just make a skeletal version of any existing unit from another line.  But it might be nice to have something more original.  

Would be cool to have orc skellies....  

a Wight King on a round base.   I'm frustrated by the fact that my wight kings foot is attached to a square base...  Not being a great customizer myself, I'm a bit at a loss as to how to put him on a round base...

But most importantly, once there is a deathrattle battletome, I want it to be so awesome that no one ever suggests using TK units in a Deathrattle army again.  Don't get me wrong, my first undead army was/is TK.  I wish nothing more than for Settra to make a glorious return in the Age of Sigmar.  But I have a problem with the aesthetic conflict between the TK and what Deathrattle is now.  Just can't reconcile the two.  Though, one day if I get better at converting, I wouldn't mind using some of the TK warscrolls for my DR army, I'd prefer it not be necessary nor optimal.

 

I would love a new skeleton warriors kit with other races thrown in. Orruks, Duarden, Aelves... it'd be neat. And if they gave us a skeletal dragon and/or skeleton giant, I'd buy it in a heartbeat! 

[deynon]

Sincerly I have the bits oof the crossbows of the Emprire. I'd mix those ones with the new skeletons. I have created also crossobows for Sylvania army of SoC with the old onees, so I'm not out of options (and I don't think someone would criticize such personalization).

But if you wnat to use old archers skletons arms I'd suggest to use them on old skeletons too, only cause aestetich, nothing more

 

[Vasshpit]

I'd definitely appreciate some sort of Death Knight style, warrior warlock, Varanguard equivalents.

Something not quite on power level of Mortarch but just under in the pecking order.

Oh and please put them on giant, skeletal warhorses. Not everything has to ride a dragon or some mystical beast demon.

We could call these steeds Nightmares..... heh.

 

Ok, ok maybe some horns.... but that's it damnit!?

[Darth Alec]

I think Morghasts are our Varanguard. Probably won't see anything between them and Blood Knights in the "powerranking".

 

Deathrattle units:

 

Skeletons sword and board

Skeletons with spears

Black Knights (any options here for kitbashing?)

Grave Guard swords and boards

Grave Guard Halberds

Wight King with sword and shield

Wight King with Banner

Wight King with Axe

Mounted Wight King

 

It's not great, but it's not unworkable. Definitely room for a sub-faction. There's more units here than the Fyreslayers have, though they have better variety. I can see the Grave Guard or Black Knights changing a lot. Going from generic "elite" troops to something with their own gameplay effects.

[Chris Tomlin]

22 hours ago, MechaBriZilla said:

a Wight King on a round base.   I'm frustrated by the fact that my wight kings foot is attached to a square base...  Not being a great customizer myself, I'm a bit at a loss as to how to put him on a round base...

Assemble him as standard, including the square base. Then get a pair of clippers and literally hack away and chop off the 4 sides of the base to leave a flat disc, then glue down to a slightly oversized round and sand around the raised area etc  

[MechaBriZilla]

27 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Assemble him as standard, including the square base. Then get a pair of clippers and literally hack away and chop off the 4 sides of the base to leave a flat disc, then glue down to a slightly oversized round and sand around the raised area etc  

Hey!  Thanks!  I was thinking about getting a round base, and gluing the square to the top, and then using Greenstuff to build up around the side.  Make it look like rubble or something.  But to be honest, my Greenstuff work... We'll lets just say it leaves a bit to be desired.

I think I'll try your way instead.

[Nico]

Often you only need to take a little bit of the corners off. I do this and use Vallejo Dark Earth or similar products to fill up the base. 

It also makes the old models taller, which can help them blend in (e.g. metal Slayers blending in with new Fyreslayers). 

[ElectricPaladin]

3 hours ago, Darth Alec said:

Deathrattle units:

 

Skeletons sword and board

Skeletons with spears

Black Knights (any options here for kitbashing?)

Grave Guard swords and boards

Grave Guard Halberds

Wight King with sword and shield

Wight King with Banner

Wight King with Axe

Mounted Wight King

 

It's not great, but it's not unworkable.

That's still only 9 entries, 6 if you count the fact that skeletons, grave guard, and all kinds of wight king could really be combined into single warscrolls with options. I'm not complaining, but it's worth noting from a speculation perspective that the average size in warscrolls for a faction (barring Stormcast and Bloodbound, who are flagship factions) is in the teens.

[MechaBriZilla]

4 hours ago, Darth Alec said:

I think Morghasts are our Varanguard. Probably won't see anything between them and Blood Knights in the "powerranking".r own gameplay effects.

I wouldn't count Morghasts as Deathrattle.  Not only do they lack the 'Deathrattle' keyword (they have Deathlord), but they are more akin to Archaons Vangaurd than anything you'd see in a more general Battletome.  Thematically they are more like the bodygaurd for Nagash and his mortarchs, or Nagash's elite of the elite.  Intended for very special work.  Not as part of one of the larger factions.  They may join with a faction to see to it that Nagash's will is enacted, or to carry out special missions where the Lord of Undeath doesn't see fit to delegate to a Mortarch, or to accompany a Mortarch, both to remind them who's in charge (Nagash), or to provide them with some extra muscle to complete difficult tasks.

Although I don't believe it's been said out right, I suspect that the Marghasts are more loyal to Nagash than even his Mortarchs are.

Or, to go one level nerdier, they are Nagash's version of the Sardaukar for the Emperor in Dune, or Pauls Fedaykin.

[Darth Alec]

10 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said:

That's still only 9 entries, 6 if you count the fact that skeletons, grave guard, and all kinds of wight king could really be combined into single warscrolls with options. I'm not complaining, but it's worth noting from a speculation perspective that the average size in warscrolls for a faction (barring Stormcast and Bloodbound, who are flagship factions) is in the teens.

 

Bonesplittaz have 12, using only 2 plastic kits and characters.

Ironjaws are 8, and that's an entirely new faction.

Beastclaw raiders are 10, with only 2 plastic kits.

Flesh-Eater Courts are 13, with significant kitbashing.

Everchosen is literally just 3 entries.

 

It's not impressive, certainly. There may be room for kitbashing to create new units though, or something else to be shuffled into the Deathrattle. It's not like they can't do something interesting like they did with Flesh-Eater Courts.

 

1 minute ago, MechaBriZilla said:

I wouldn't count Morghasts as Deathrattle.  Not only do they lack the 'Deathrattle' keyword (they have Deathlord), but they are more akin to Archaons Vangaurd than anything you'd see in a more general Battletome.  Thematically they are more like the bodygaurd for Nagash and his mortarchs, or Nagash's elite of the elite.  Intended for very special work.  Not as part of one of the larger factions.  They may join with a faction to see to it that Nagash's will is enacted, or to carry out special missions where the Lord of Undeath doesn't see fit to delegate to a Mortarch, or to accompany a Mortarch, both to remind them who's in charge (Nagash), or to provide them with some extra muscle to complete difficult tasks.

Although I don't believe it's been said out right, I suspect that the Marghasts are more loyal to Nagash than even his Mortarchs are.

 

Morghast certainly aren't Deathrattle. I just meant that we've already got an established "Varanguard" unit for our Grand Alliance. Deathrattle won't get their own on that powerlevel. Blood Knights are the next thing down in Death ATM, which still aren't Deathrattle. Not saying that it's impossible to get something new for Deathrattle, even something strong. Powerful Wights on steeds is an option, or some Bone Giant/Ushabti type in plastic is possible. Or something even more absurd (skeletal spiders? skeletal pegasus?).  Point being, we may see Blood Knight-level boxes, but it's not going to be ala the Varanguard, because Death already has those in the Morghasts.

 

[ElectricPaladin]

Ironjaws are eight?! Wow. Live and learn. In that case, yeah, we might just see some rules updating.

[MechaBriZilla]

31 minutes ago, Darth Alec said:

Morghast certainly aren't Deathrattle. I just meant that we've already got an established "Varanguard" unit for our Grand Alliance. Deathrattle won't get their own on that powerlevel. Blood Knights are the next thing down in Death ATM, which still aren't Deathrattle. Not saying that it's impossible to get something new for Deathrattle, even something strong. Powerful Wights on steeds is an option, or some Bone Giant/Ushabti type in plastic is possible. Or something even more absurd (skeletal spiders? skeletal pegasus?).  Point being, we may see Blood Knight-level boxes, but it's not going to be ala the Varanguard, because Death already has those in the Morghasts.

Sorry, my error.

[Darth Alec]

1 hour ago, ElectricPaladin said:

Ironjaws are eight?! Wow. Live and learn. In that case, yeah, we might just see some rules updating.

Yup.

 

Gordrakk

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha

Megaboss

Wierdnob

Warchanter

Brutes

Gore Gruntas

'Ardboyz

Super small faction, meaning that there's room for similar small factions.