The "mortals redesign" Discussion

[novakai]

I guess it depends on the level of religious theme we talking about.

Like i don’t expect Dune God emperor Leto level of fanatic level of devotion ( where 40K is at) but more of where Chronicles of Narnia Aslan is. 

[Snorri Nelriksson]

12 minutes ago, novakai said:

I guess it depends on the level of religious theme we talking about.

Like i don’t expect Dune God emperor Leto level of fanatic level of devotion ( where 40K is at) but more of where Chronicles of Narnia Aslan is. 

Order pantheon still is with many gods so we'll have people of many faiths other than Sigmar. 

This reason will never make free peoples analogous to imperium.

[Twisted Firaun]

Honestly I'm just here for the debate (my name should make it perfectly clear where my army preferences lie), but I don't see the problem with how GW is handling redesigning CoS so far. 

I get that people don't like how heavily Sigmar is being represented from what we've seen, but this is the Age of Sigmar, what did you expect?

Personally, I want to know where there taking the range beyond the macabre: are they going the steampunk route most of the novels paint the free cities as?  will CoS players be able to build their armies from one city/realm without extensive kit bashing? can other god's be included in a Dawnbringer Crusade (including, may Settra forgive me, The Usurper)?

Edit: Do my non-existent eyes deceive me or did @Whitefang like my post?

Edited May 12, 2022 by Loyal Son of Khemri

[xking]

36 minutes ago, novakai said:

I guess it depends on the level of religious theme we talking about.

Like i don’t expect Dune God emperor Leto level of fanatic level of devotion ( where 40K is at) but more of where Chronicles of Narnia Aslan is. 

That will vary between the city. There's always going to be some of that, after all Sigmar is the god-king who is fighting against terrible and thirsty dark demon gods who seek to devour reality itself. But even then, the people will worship and venerate multiple gods of order. I mean look at the living City, it was made by  alarielle at the behest of Sigmar and is a symbol of their Unity and shared goals. Her faith has a major following in that City.

Edited May 12, 2022 by xking

[novakai]

True but I get the feeling by  defaults and primary they are going to be Sigmar worshipers or Sigmar adjacent worshipers

just like how there a lot of Imperial Guard regiment out there but Cadians are the default scheme model wise

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, RyantheFett said:

As someone who is still gluing and painting his Freeguild and Stormcast stuff right now I thought the stuff they showed looked very in line with the faction should be and is pretty cool. Hell, I would even call some of it a bit too safe, but these are only teasers so can't really judge one way or another.

I think the fear is that the army turns into fantasy Space Marines with the removal of other races and a even stronger focus on the brutal lives and strong faith. With the info they gave us so far the similarities almost feel like a joke.

Of course their talk of how massive this plan is and how long it will take sort of implies something bigger then just a humans rework? Which then loops back around to other races already having representation in the game and what can they really do with them?

Yeah, the messaging of the inital reveal was a bit inconsistent.

On the one hand: Biggest project in AoS history, bringing the mortals of the realms to life,  nothing like the Empire of the old world.

On the other hand: Only Empire-looking renders are shown, a Freeguild refresh would not be the biggest project ever, only focussing on humans would not do justice to the mortals of the realms.

This is why I suspect this will actually be a multi-part project. I think the renders we have seen point towards a fairly straight foreward Freeguild refresh/expansion, but for the project to be ambitious there would have to be other stuff in store as well. That might mean Warcry like Cities warbands, or it might mean City dwarves and elves further down the line. For what it's worth I think the most clear message was that the focus will be on the humans of Cities at the start.

[Snorri Nelriksson]

I'll post a meme about a sudden realization made today:

[Twisted Firaun]

1 hour ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

I'll post a meme about a sudden realization made today:

LIVING NEHEKARANS?! BY PTRA’S GLORIOUSLY GOLDEN BEARD!!! Wait. How in the name of all that is sandy did you reach this conclusion? 

[Segersgia]

I did notice, that while a lot of sigmarite iconogaphy was shown, I got a Bretonnian vibe of off them. The symbolism look way more "Arthurian" to me than "Holy Roman Empire".

[Snorri Nelriksson]

26 minutes ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

LIVING NEHEKARANS?! BY PTRA’S GLORIOUSLY GOLDEN BEARD!!! Wait. How in the name of all that is sandy did you reach this conclusion? 

Because i remembered Ghyranite knights faithful of Alarielle of the cities are literally Bretonnia 2.0(see eight lamentations).
Hysh iconography was always "egyptian themed" and the Nekeharan's lore was similar to Hysh magic (and the Liche used also light magic),Hysh is full of deserts and is a highly holy place...if Aos will have some sort of Nekeharans\not!Egyptiam themed free peoples will definitively come from that realm(or simply they'll give hyshian themed bits to make that thing even possible).

[Twisted Firaun]

46 minutes ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

Because i remembered Ghyranite knights faithful of Alarielle of the cities are literally Bretonnia 2.0(see eight lamentations).
Hysh iconography was always "egyptian themed" and the Nekeharan's lore was similar to Hysh magic (and the Liche used also light magic),Hysh is full of deserts and is a highly holy place...if Aos will have some sort of Nekeharans\not!Egyptiam themed free peoples will definitively come from that realm(or simply they'll give hyshian themed bits to make that thing even possible).

I see your point, however it looks like Hysh is now being directed towards some strange mixture of greco-roman/buddhist stereotypes so this might not be the case nowadays (CURSE YOU TECLIS!!!!).

[Dawi not Duardin]

15 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

I see your point, however it looks like Hysh is now being directed towards some strange mixture of greco-roman/buddhist stereotypes so this might not be the case nowadays (CURSE YOU TECLIS!!!!).

To be fair, that's Hysh elves, no? Nothing about them precludes a more Egyptian-styled human Hysh civilization. You could even have a cool contrast here between the black pyramid in Shyish and a pyramid of light in Hysh.

[CommissarRotke]

On 5/12/2022 at 5:44 AM, Kadeton said:

To me, that seems symptomatic of a setting so completely unmoored from the normal passage of time. Things jump around in the fiction by hundreds or thousands of years, and the only way you can have characters "persist" and have an ongoing impact in that framework is by making them immortal - otherwise, they're probably long dead by the time you turn the page.

As a counterpoint: this does allow us as players to fill in those gaps with our own armies/characters, with less toe-stepping. And it also sets GW up to write BL stuff that doesn't need a Fixed Timeline; i.e. we could get two new novels, one is in some corner of some realm in Soul Wars and the other is actually pushing the Era of Beasts story forward.

On 5/12/2022 at 5:44 AM, Kadeton said:

If I had to guess, I'd say a lot of the effort going into "making mortals relevant again" will have to go towards having a more coherent and reasonable time scale, focusing in on a particular set of events (presumably the Dawnbringer Crusades) which occur over a relatively short period. It will be interesting to see whether they can pull that off.

However I do think this will be close to the end result of redesigning Cities/bringing Dawnbringers to life. Both ways of handling the timeline are valid. However, from precedent, we know GW is more likely to stick the landing of a scaled down timeline.

On 5/12/2022 at 10:39 AM, xking said:

But more seriously, not everyone in the cities worship just Sigmar, they also worship the other gods of order. Sigmar is just more successful because he is constantly attempting to establish new cities and support them. He is also very much not a racist and is constantly seeking to establish new alliances and ties with those who side with order, hearing petitions etc

Another reason why the Cities redesign should include non-Sigmarite/Azyrite iconography...

 

[CommissarRotke]

18 hours ago, Segersgia said:

I did notice, that while a lot of sigmarite iconogaphy was shown, I got a Bretonnian vibe of off them. The symbolism look way more "Arthurian" to me than "Holy Roman Empire".

Oh that would be wonderful AND line up with the mythological underpinnings of AOS (focus on gods, wars between their followers, creation and epoch myths, etc).

[Maogrim]

On 5/10/2022 at 3:28 AM, Doko said:

I was hyped for my citys rework.

 

Now im sad,my cos army are only 100% new dwarfs and elfs. Nothing gonna get reworked and only gonna be olds warscrolls forgotten and useless inside tye new shiny new empire with luck,and a chance of these units being removed

 

Oh and new empire looks horrible for me,i love regular humana with armor,but hate everything that have religion or barroque and gothic,and new empire seems gonna be all around this as sisters of battle in 40k that i really hate.

I wanted new revamped empire following totalwar units and not sisters of battle in sigmar

Please don't take this as an attack of some sorts, but I'm really curious: do you genuinely enjoy anything about the current state of Age of Sigmar?

You seem to be rather disappointed with almost all recent developments. 

[Doko]

The fact is no,i dont like anithing about the direction of aos.

 

Each edition is worse from 0.0

 

First the free sumon of 2.0

Then the f.......... Joke of 3.0 coherency and the zero sense double 1 on cast and you cant cast more.

The balance of armys,the number of new units for some armys as daemons with 999999 new units or elfs while dwarfs get nothing.

Also i loved fantasy and 0.0 armys,but almost every new aos army since 0.0 only have been over the top ugly armys(i think only vampires is great and even then they ****** the vengolorian lord)

There is a reason that all my armys have similar theme(fantasy) city of sigmar,fyreslayers,vampires and stormcast(i dont like it neither dislike but i got it very cheap with starters editions)

So you got it rigth and i atually dont like anithing about actual aos and i cant wait for old world with a glimpse hope be more fun and balanced than aos and release beautifull not over the top models

[Twisted Firaun]

3 hours ago, Dawi not Duardin said:

To be fair, that's Hysh elves, no? Nothing about them precludes a more Egyptian-styled human Hysh civilization. You could even have a cool contrast here between the black pyramid in Shyish and a pyramid of light in Hysh.

@Dawi not Duardin, do you mind if I steal this idea if/when we get new hysh human bits? I might use them to. represent the mortals that serve my death rattle/tomb kings army in Ghur.

[Public Universal Duardin]

23 hours ago, Snorri Nelriksson said:

I'll post a meme about a sudden realization made today:

Posters before your meme: sleep

Posters after your meme:

[Dawi not Duardin]

2 hours ago, Loyal Son of Khemri said:

@Dawi not Duardin, do you mind if I steal this idea if/when we get new hysh human bits? I might use them to. represent the mortals that serve my death rattle/tomb kings army in Ghur.

You're very welcome - that's really flattering!

[EntMan]

On 5/12/2022 at 2:27 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 

 

So they had all these to pick from and they chose to keep the top one?

I sometimes wonder what is wrong with GW!

[Scurvydog]

I don't mind if they go for a conquistador like "default" look and possibly provide a lot of bitz in the kits to create units from various realms.

They mention "mortals" but I wonder how much will be humans and how they will handle the other races in the cities. Frankly it seems quite redundant to have more aelves in there at this point, while the duardin got a somewhat larger hole in their design space between fyreslayers and KO to fill. 

More interesting would be if they actually mixed them completely in entirely new units, perhaps with a few specialized elites of each race, but mixed basic infantry, archers and such. War marchines that actually mixed different technology would also create a unique look not really seen anywhere else.

It can only be better than the haphazard warcry releases for StD for their mortal followers, oh boy what a mess.

[Baron Klatz]

Going through some past art and I noticed the teases looked a lot like the holy skull staff the Dark Souls-looking plague doctor has from the 2017 Firestorm campaign Living City(Nurgle’s rise was at this time before the Maggotkin’s first big unveiling at Christmas before 2018, so the fear of illness tone)

I’d love to get him as a Ghyran Freeguild representative with the red contrasting all the green leaves & flower iconography and any wooden armor on the new troops.

[NinthMusketeer]

I would love for cities to stay completely mixed-race as a faction, but for individual cities to cut back on it. For example Greywater can't take Wanderers, Settler's Gain can't take Duardin, Living City can't take Ironweld, and several others. It doesn't (and shouldn't) be every city but I think a tool GW could use to add subfaction identity is not only defining what they get but what they lose. Given such units are often not favored anyways due to the subfaction buffing different things it isn't going to be a significant burden either.

Mixed-race units would be tricky to figure out mechanically, but one aspect of GW's rule design I have absolute confidence in is their creativity when it comes to adapting thematic elements so I'd bet they could pull it off well.

 

But my absolute dream for CoS is city-specific upgrade kits that add unifying elements to duardin, aelf, and human models. Particularly if coupled with the broader idea of realm-themed accessory kits that any army can use.

[Baron Klatz]

1 hour ago, NinthMusketeer said:

For example Greywater can't take Wanderers, Settler's Gain can't take Duardin, Living City can't take Ironweld, and several others.

Now here I disagree(I like the rest tho) because juxtapositions like those make for some really fun lore like Hysh duardin using concentrated moonlight to forge aetherquartz and Ironweld Cogsmiths actually making their motto “I can turn anything into a gun” very literal as Soulbound:Steam and Steel has examples of Ghyran Ironweld making plant guns out of local flora.

As for Wanderers, they need Greywater because it’s the only place in Ghyran besides the outskirts of the Living City that doesn’t have Sylvaneth put a target on their backs(remember they still hate them as traitors). And indeed Greywater gives them an opportunity to fight back against the dreadful dryads 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Beliman]

On 5/13/2022 at 5:39 PM, Doko said:

The fact is no,i dont like anithing about the direction of aos.

 

Each edition is worse from 0.0

 

First the free sumon of 2.0

Then the f.......... Joke of 3.0 coherency and the zero sense double 1 on cast and you cant cast more.

The balance of armys,the number of new units for some armys as daemons with 999999 new units or elfs while dwarfs get nothing.

Also i loved fantasy and 0.0 armys,but almost every new aos army since 0.0 only have been over the top ugly armys(i think only vampires is great and even then they ****** the vengolorian lord)

There is a reason that all my armys have similar theme(fantasy) city of sigmar,fyreslayers,vampires and stormcast(i dont like it neither dislike but i got it very cheap with starters editions)

So you got it rigth and i atually dont like anithing about actual aos and i cant wait for old world with a glimpse hope be more fun and balanced than aos and release beautifull not over the top models

Wtf, everything about this post is wrong!