How is the state of Kharadon Overlords in 3.0?

[Just_Flo]

Hi, I took a long break. So I ask what happened with the Kharadon Overlords?

[GrimDork]

Not great currently, they didn't fair that well moving into 3rd edition.

However the next issue of White Dwarf (475?) will have a tome celestial article for KO, so hopefully that will address the issues.

[Btimmy]

As mentioned by GrimDork, KO lost quite a bit in the edition change. Smaller board size and more terrain limits fly high's ability to scoot around the map. They have low range on their guns, and low rend to combat the new save stacking meta. They also have zero monsters in the entire army, meaning they lack the ability to score a couple of the freebie battle tactics. Their ships aren't elite, meaning you need a hero to be inside or close to issue all out defense, and can't be put in hunters meaning they are vulnerable to get roared. Even the 18 wound 3+ save ironclad is frequently dead in one activation from a good chunk of the flying hero monsters that can easily cross the board in one turn. The white dwarf will give some battle tactics and grand strats, so one or two usable battle tactics would certainly go a long way towards helping them out, but their warscrolls and rules need a bump to be anywhere near the top of the meta again.

As an example of their competitive standing, in adepticon, one of the largest AoS tournaments in the States, there was exactly ONE KO player at the whole tournament. 

[Beliman]

As @GrimDork and @Btimmy said, we have some issues in 3.0 that directly impact our gamestyle. Ex.: We use Rend to chew against armored units, but with all +1 saves around, that's a bit harder to do than before. 

But we are NOT that bad. We can shoot multiple units to try to bait All out Defense and we still have lots of rerolls to hit (something that I  expect to lose in this edition) that makes our units a bit more reliable. Our subfactions are still playable (Thring, Urbaz, Zilfin, Mhornar) and we can use all our units (maybe Brokk and Thunderers are a bit behind, but not unplayable). There are some Skywarden-lists taking top3 in 3-games tournaments!!

Our main problem is when we play against specific armies that counter our strength (capturing objective, mortal wounds AoE, save-stacking, defensive bonus to ranged attacks, etc...). That's a big problem in 5-games tournaments because we are going to face some of them.

I still think that our problem is because we are not flexible enough for 3.0 (we are more "one-trick pony"). This edition demands players to adjust and change their gameplay to accomplish their tactics: they need to pull the trigger to kill THAT monster/battleline (we can only focus fire, but not increase our mortal wounds output), take X objective (no defensive bonus, just steal objective with +6" movement or fly high) and all this kind of stuff.
We need to plan ahead and stick to that plan (that's a bit weird for an army with """""infinite"""" movement)

Btw, we are a bit neglected by GW because we are still waiting for 3.0 FAQs to know how should we play (disembark, teleports within melee range in the movement phase, etc...).

[Fert]

On top of battle tactic issues, my big problem with KO is board presence.  Or rather objective presence...  

We simply cannot anvil up or keep enough bodies to hold objectives long term.

We have trouble taking objectives because;

- fly high is easy to zone and we have to be 9" away. 

- even if we can toe on an objective from a fly high... a ship counts as 2 models... GW please fix.  Even just counting as 5 would be huge. 

- our main source of damage is shooting... So we can shoot the hell out of something on an objective and then what.. charge in?  If we shoot well enough there is nothing to charge, thus even less bodies or even no bodies on target objective.  

My hope is that the update gives us some easy battle tactics, ships counting as 5 models, and maybe some sort of rend augment for a cp.  Ohhh and re-write the admirals warscroll ffs 

[Frowny]

It might seem to me like Galatian veterans helps a lot? Ships full of veteran Arkonauts ramming into objectives brings a lot of capture power yes? And they aren't then themselves vulnerable to bounty hunters. Maybe with spell in a bottle+purple sun to reduce rend. Maybe with the incarnate+ wizard book to give you a monster+ anchor?

 

[Rachmani]

They‘re very good at the moment. New Admiral and the dreaded Purple Sun made all the shooting so much more dangerous.

It‘s specific lists, that do well. But boi do they do well.

[Skreech Verminking]

19 hours ago, Rachmani said:

They‘re very good at the moment. New Admiral and the dreaded Purple Sun made all the shooting so much more dangerous.

It‘s specific lists, that do well. But boi do they do well.

Which is great, because you no longer have a reason to use the skaven endless spell.

thank god this is over.

 

[Rachmani]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Which is great, because you no longer have a reason to use the skaven endless spell.

thank god this is over.

 

I... didn't see that coming! ❤️

[Skreech Verminking]

51 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

I... didn't see that coming! ❤️

I didn’t like the idea that a dwarf could use an unstable vortex without much trouble.

personally something like that should explode on a roll of 1

 

[Rachmani]

You're absolutely right! It was kinda loopholeish.