AoS 3 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Doko]

11 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

If he's useless why is the enemy shooting him first? Though ironically that is itself a use. In fact, I would go so far as to say all of these statements are untrue. Maybe dial back the hyperbole?

 

 

@Ser_namron tbf I am seeing a number of errors in that game;

-Can't burn objectives on your side of the board

-King's +1 hit aura is 9" and doesn't affect namarti

-He triggers the king's fight first ability at the end of the charge phase, BEFORE you decide to use the strike first fyreslayers ability

-The king only gets the bonus attacks from that trait while he is under the affect of high tide, so he would not have had the +6 attacks

-Statistically it would take 43 thrall attacks to kill 8 hearthguard, assuming they have +1 to hit and are hitting twice on 6s. A 10-man unit puts out 21 attacks, so I am pretty sure something went wrong there. Were the hearthguard not getting their 4+ ward?

 

I dont gain money for waste my personal time doing numbers,excells etc to see that unit is good and what unit is bad and then post here or other site my results.

And moreover im sick of these persons calling me negative etc so as i said i wont post again in this subforum.

If persons gonna be happier i can write as every people with 0 idea about the game and fyreslayers but that got a free copy of the tome of gw and had to do a review:

 

All in the book is great.

All is better than 2.0!

Smith is great!! Can bring back entire army alone and broken and need be nerfed because free dragons!!!!!!

Vulkites spam broken! Lets spam them because they have been upgraded!

Ohh magma spam!we can bring only magmas list and stomp enemys with the upgraded magmadroth!

 

Seems commons preffer these coments to the math and data numbers,so be happy

[NinthMusketeer]

Anyways, not debating the effectiveness of Fyreslayers overall (I don't have an opinion yet) but I do want to put out some hopefully helpful bits.

By my measure, Vulkites have three main uses:

-10 man double axe squads for offensive chaff, Vostarg could use them for dedicated offense and in larger squads

-10 man shield squads for screening & objective camping

-30 man shield squads + battlesmith for an anvil. This is also where the battlesmith shines, giving such a massive blob of wounds a 6+ or situational 5+ ward. The rally is useful, because you can retreat on your turn then rally in their subsequent hero phase. They weren't there to do damage anyways, so the loss of a combat phase is no big deal. Also, as a totem that is an 18" range on the rally; excellent for hiding him in a forest against shooting armies.

A 4+ ward is statistically equivalent to double the wounds count.

The buffs offered by the new hero do require models to die... but they are really powerful buffs. +1 damage straight doubles the output of vulkites, or a 50% increase to HGB with axes. That is a lot more potent than a measly 6s hit twice buff! For people who want to make vulkites shine, this guy is a big asset. Also, unless GW errata's it, they stack. Two guys behind the same unit can charge up off the same 5 casualties, then give out +2 damage.

IMO the movement debuff on AHG is a big deal. As a random example, imagine a 10 man unit 15" away from a mega, they give it -3 movement and now what would have been a 4" essentially guaranteed charge becomes 7" that is still likely but can fail. Failing a charge like that can easily swing games.

Lofnir 'droth spam is real, yo.

Idoneth are a hard counter to Fyreslayers, that matchup will always make them look good and fiery beardy bois look bad.

Edited March 17, 2022 by NinthMusketeer

[Clan's Cynic]

Warhammer Weekly on Fyreslayers. Timestamped accordingly:

 

[KnowAnyThryng]

Played my first game using new tome

Used fyreslayers as coalition in Kharadron Overlords list,so really only can speak to warscrolls only and not allegiance stuff.

Hgbz are still great - mvp of the match. Poleaxes rolled cold but still did alot.

Runefather foot with hgbz -bodyguard rules are awesome. Tanked an absurd amount of damage. Save stacking on him is outstanding. Really the centerpiece of our army I feel. 

Solo Runesmiter on magma was not great.magmas really need a 5 plus ward to be able to stay on the table against tough opponents. Battlesmith allowed this one turn but once 5plus gone he died fast. 340 points is steep for how vulnerable he is. Plus 1 to wound on himself combined with flaming weapons means this guy can hit really hard now. Tail swipe is now much better - able to tail swipe stormdrake guard 66 percent of the time... problem is durability. Magmas are really reliant on allegiance abilities and lofnir I think. Ranged attack is solid - able to be used against smaller units is really nice. Just hard to justify 340 points with such reduced durability. Again need lofnir, mount traits and allegiance abilities to make these guys viable I think. 

Battlesmith was really solid. Due to totem he sat 18 inches from hgbz, behind terrain if possible. Opponent only had 12 inch and 18 shooting so he stayed alive long enough to rally 7 hgbz and pay for himself easily. Gave ward save to magma to help his durability This guy is heavily matchup dependent. 

So from an allies perspective I can see 10hgbz plus runeson for 400pts being a really decent choice where a mortal wound resistant anvil is needed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[5kaven5lave]

Taking on Stormcast dragons with the below tonight, wish me luck and any last minute small changes I could make? Wanna try out deepstriking a block of Aurics to see what happens…

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Greyfyrd
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (360)*
- General
- Command Trait: Spirit of Grimnir  
- Artefact: The Daemon Slayer  
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runeson (80)*
- Ancestral War-axe
- Artefact: Axe of Grimnir  
Auric Runesmiter (135)**
- Runic Iron
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Auric Runemaster (125)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Auric Flamekeeper (90)**

Battleline
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
- Broadaxes
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
- Broadaxes
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
- Poleaxes
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Auric Hearthguard (250)*
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Triumph

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
Drops: 4
 

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Taking on Stormcast dragons with the below tonight, wish me luck and any last minute small changes I could make? Wanna try out deepstriking a block of Aurics to see what happens…

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Greyfyrd
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (360)*
- General
- Command Trait: Spirit of Grimnir  
- Artefact: The Daemon Slayer  
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runeson (80)*
- Ancestral War-axe
- Artefact: Axe of Grimnir  
Auric Runesmiter (135)**
- Runic Iron
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Auric Runemaster (125)**
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny (Universal Artefact)
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
Auric Flamekeeper (90)**

Battleline
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
- Broadaxes
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
- Broadaxes
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
- Poleaxes
- Reinforced x 1

Units
10 x Auric Hearthguard (250)*
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Triumph

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 117
Drops: 4
 

Good luck mate.

from a skaven player to another😜

[NinthMusketeer]

Stormdrake guard will make almost anything look bad by comparison.

[DwarfsOnly]

Alright, sixth game in today. I need to get in quite a few more as I continue to experiment with weird stuff.

So this makes battles vs. Big Waagh, Skaven, GSG, SBGL, SCE, and now DoK. I'd say the SCE, SBGL, and DoK (kinda) were "meta" lists. I've won each, though that's partially due to luck in Big Waagh!'s and DoK's cases. SCE was, in part, due to a big misplay by my opponent, but those are part of the game, too.

Both Greyfyrd and Vostarg have performed admirably for me and I can confidently say: Vulkites are way better and more useful now, Grimwrath can be a missile or a monster, Runefather is an absolute beast, and Runemaster has seen probably the biggest glow-up. Also, a surprise to myself: I have found some niche uses for Auric Hearthguard; mostly as a tunnel unit to apply backline pressure/hit supports, but also as a forward screen meant to put out a little ranged damage and then die to feed flamekeepers or allow Vulkites to ensure a charge. Still, I'll try to get in way more games before I can confidently get a handle on how powerful things really are.

As I finish my Runeson on Magmadroths I'll begin trying out Lofnir. I've already abandoned Hermdar, what a hilariously bad ability. 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by DwarfsOnly

[vinnyt]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:12 AM, Ser_namron said:

kings bonus attacks ISSSSSS only in high tide, very good to know, my opponent has been misinterpreting that rule ( it happens obviously with new tomes) 

king gets the bonus attacks when he uses his ability since the wording is "units you picked are effected by the high tide ability from the tides of death table in addition to the blah blah". So yeah, he gets to hulk out for 3 straight combat phases. He's only got 7 wounds on a 3+ save though, so if any hgb survive his initial hits, they'll demolish him. If you spend the cp to make the hgb fight first, the way the sequencing would go is:

Fight first subphase: He fights with king, you fight with hgb, he fights with 2nd unit effected by the king's ability

Regular fight phase subphase: He picks first since it's his turn, then you go, etc, etc 

 

Definitely an uphill battle against IDK, but man those magmadroths can bring the hurt. 

 

[Paul Buckler]

So headed to WHW last weekend for there singles event.  I took this list.

Army Faction: Fyreslayers
    - Army Subfaction: Vostarg
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (360)**
    - General
    - Command Traits: Blood of the Berzerker
    - Artefacts: Axe of Grimnir
    - Mount Traits: Coal-heart Ancient

Battlesmith (150)**

Auric Runesmiter (135)***
    - Runic Iron

Auric Flamekeeper (90)*

Auric Runemaster (125)****
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Ghost-mist
    - Prayers: Heal

BATTLELINE

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
    - Flamestrike Poleaxe

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)*
    - Flamestrike Poleaxe

Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)**
    - Fyresteel War-pick and Bladed Slingshield

Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)***

Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)****

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Hunters of the Heartlands

**Warlord

***Vanguard

****Vanguard

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

 

Day 1 went 3-0  All good tight games, SBGL, Mirror Slayers and OBR.

Day 2 0-2, Morthi and her friends, and Soublblight. 

Apart from the Morathi game, I was in every single matchup.  Last game was a charge roll and a  priority away from a decent chance of a win.

Ended 13th of 58, super happy with that for first run out, and easily could have been top 10.

Shooting is the weakness of the army,  really told in game 4. 

Droth father is so killy, he won me 2 games from raw damage output.

Vulites are amazing, the 2 axes in vostag on the charge.  Game one one shotted VLOZD with -1 rend and extra damage from keeper.

Battlesmith - Rally was huge, won me a game, and the ward just helps as well.

Smiter, not 100% convinced by him, in this list .The large charge after deployment really hurts, no easy buffs for that.  More  defensive tool to hide droth from shooting.

Flamekeeper - want 2!  Countercharge with +1 damage, or straight charge at +2 seems so good.

HGB, were ok, I am actually considering a drop for maybe 2 Stormdrake guard, damage is a bit less, and far less survivable, but they are so quick and get me bonus monster points as well for tactics.

(Straight swap smiter out for Keeper and 10 HGB for 2 Dragons)

 

Overall the book was great fun to play, opponents all had no issues all were very happy to see the new book being played.  I feel it has so many more options than before and atm much of it has really not seen table time.  Pretty sure there are a ton of builds that will filter out over the next few months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DwarfsOnly]

For those wondering how our fellow Slayer brethren are doing out there in a couple early, pre-FAQ tournies.

• In my local area a player went 2-1 with a Runefather on Droth led Greyfyrd. He beat SCE and SBGL, but lost to another SCE.
• This fellow went 3-0 with a Greyfyrd all-foot list using HGB and Vulkite shields.  He beat S2D, Morathi - DoK, and a big-dragon Krondys SCE.
• This cool dude went 3-0 with a Lofnir 6-magmadroth list. Two Dads and their four sons. A happy family. He faced, DoK, BoC, and Tzeentch.

It seems we already are seeing some lists honing-in on Greyfyrd as the main list. Though that might just be early adopters, so we'll see if new and exciting things pop up. I definitely think we're already seeing much better performances than in the old book; it's always great to see big improvements!

Edited March 22, 2022 by DwarfsOnly

[peasant]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:53 PM, peasant said:

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by peasant
X3 post

[peasant]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:53 PM, peasant said:

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by peasant
X3 post

[peasant]

On 3/16/2022 at 9:53 PM, peasant said:

 

Hey! Do you remember when Warhammer community announced they Will sell 'droths outside the start collecting? Do you expect them to arrive soon? At which price?

 

Pd at the moment if you try to Buy them they would send you the start collecting as they are same priced

[Superking]

Do you have the lists?

Also, had an idea to keep battlesmith alive. Given the rally is 18 inches, couldn't we use volcanos call to screen him?

[DwarfsOnly]

50 minutes ago, Superking said:

Do you have the lists?

 

They are linked in the twitter posts for the latter two. Click the links. I don't have the exact first one's list.

[Oldhat]

Well, I had put everything on hold waiting for this book with high hopes. What a shame they basically gutted my initial choice (Hermdar) and now I am left kinda using the same list but just overall less effective.

Right now, I am going to be trying this out:

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Lofnir
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line (maybe the new Lineage one?)
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (360)*
- General
- Command Trait: Fury of the Fyreslayers
- Artefact: Amulet of Destiny
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (340)*
- Runic Iron
- Magmadroth Trait: Lava-tongue Adult
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
Auric Runeson (80)*
- Wyrmslayer Javelins
- Artefact: Magnetised Runes
Auric Runeson (80)*
- Wyrmslayer Javelins
Auric Runesmiter (135)*
- Forge Key
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Curse
UNITS
5 x Auric Hearthguard (125)*
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)**
- Poleaxes
10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)**
- Broadaxes
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)**
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
Suffocating Gravetide (50)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Warlord
**Hunters of the Heartlands
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Artefact
TOTAL: 1970/2000 WOUNDS: 117

Runesons escort the two HGB units, since they can be kept alive and will keep them at their 4+, which basically feels like a tax now for those units to have their save. The VB squad camps - as an anvil, but albeit a less than stellar one give its size (so many compromises!). The foot Smiter brings in the AHG unit via tunnel to shoot stuff, which... with only 5 dudes won't be impressive and I am debating cutting this gimmick OR leaning into it harder with a unit size increase. Two Droth leaders go in and stompy stomp. I thought the idea of the Gravetide as an inhibitor for the VBs or AHG would be useful... but doubtful. Just an awkward point gap that AoS locked-in unit sizes creates.

As you can see, it is a bunch of compromises to keep the strategies I had before.

Thankfully, with our very limited model range, it isn't like we can't refine down what works and what doesn't quickly lmao.

[DwarfsOnly]

Your list, Oldhat, is actually not valid. While people don't always enforce it or know, you can't take Endless spells if by taking an arcane tome. Now, you could ally in a wizard from SCE or CoS to remedy this, such as a Battlemage. But I'm not sure Gravetide is the best option. Lifeswarm seems like the more obvious go-to. I would say you'd be better off getting rid of it for an invocation, though. All of them are decent.

I'd also rethink Lofnir if you're not using Runesons on droths, it seems like you'd perform better as Greyfyrd. 

I know you didn't ask for feedback, but I thought you'd want it anyway.

Edited March 23, 2022 by DwarfsOnly

[Mortaal]

Hey all, coming back into 3.0, with a new Battletome no less, I was wondering what people thought of my first setup to try out. No idea if the 1 drop is still as essential as it used to be, but I built it that way. Let me know what you think!
 

Army Faction: Fyreslayers
    - Army Subfaction: Greyfyrd
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Auric Runefather (125)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Leader of the Duardrazhal
    - Artefacts: Axe of Grimnir

Battlesmith (150)*
    - Artefacts: Nulsidian Icon

BATTLELINE

15 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (480)*
    - Flamestrike Poleaxe

20 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (320)*
    - Fyresteel Handaxe and Bladed Slingshield

20 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (320)*
    - Fyresteel Handaxe and Bladed Slingshield

OTHER

Grimwrath Berzerker (105)*
    - Artefacts: Daemon Slayer

Gotrek Gurnisson (485)*

TERRAIN

Magmic Battleforge (0)

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1985/2000)

 

Cheers,

Mortaal

[Oldhat]

13 hours ago, DwarfsOnly said:

Your list, Oldhat, is actually not valid. While people don't always enforce it or know, you can't take Endless spells if by taking an arcane tome. Now, you could ally in a wizard from SCE or CoS to remedy this, such as a Battlemage. But I'm not sure Gravetide is the best option. Lifeswarm seems like the more obvious go-to. I would say you'd be better off getting rid of it for an invocation, though. All of them are decent.

I'd also rethink Lofnir if you're not using Runesons on droths, it seems like you'd perform better as Greyfyrd. 

I know you didn't ask for feedback, but I thought you'd want it anyway.

I definitely want feedback. And with the rules bloat across so many games, I forget basics far too often. It's honestly gotten to a point where I'm tempted to cut a game or two from my rotation just to free up brain space. 

[Liquidsteel]

14 hours ago, DwarfsOnly said:

Your list, Oldhat, is actually not valid. While people don't always enforce it or know, you can't take Endless spells if by taking an arcane tome

I'm not totally convinced by this, though I did see some chat about it on Twitter a few weeks back.

It seems something that is a grey area.

[Marcvs]

15 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

I'm not totally convinced by this, though I did see some chat about it on Twitter a few weeks back.

It seems something that is a grey area.

it definitely is. I have yet to see a TO not allowing this and, at least in my area, it has been ruled the other way (all list restrictions are checked at the end)

[Liquidsteel]

1 minute ago, Marcvs said:

it definitely is. I have yet to see a TO not allowing this and, at least in my area, it has been ruled the other way (all list restrictions are checked at the end)

Yeah it's never been an issue at all, I've only been aware of one person raising the concern on Twitter. It's been allowed here in the UK without ever being questioned.

[DwarfsOnly]

53 minutes ago, Liquidsteel said:

Yeah it's never been an issue at all, I've only been aware of one person raising the concern on Twitter. It's been allowed here in the UK without ever being questioned.

It's been allowed a few places, mostly because many TOs either don't care or don't know the rules. But technically it is not valid. The reason is pretty straight forward: you build your army list before you choose enhancements. Since endless spells are chosen when building your list, you do not have a wizard to choose them. Then, after that step, your enhancements are chosen, but you are past choosing an endless spell.

This is noted in: 27.3 where it notes enhancements are chosen after battalions.  In 26.0, battalions are picked after you have created your army. It's fairly clearly written in the core rules.

Edited March 23, 2022 by DwarfsOnly

[Oldhat]

So Greyfyrd does seem the way to go unless running a bunch of Droths. I redid the list, keeping the core concept similar:

Hold the Line, Bloodthirsty

Runefather on Droth
General, Fury, AoD, Coal-heart

Auric Runeson w/ WSJ, Axe of Grimnir

Auric Runeson w/ WSJ, Daemon Slayer

Auric Runesmiter w/ Forge Key, Curse

15x Auric HG

10x HGB w/ Poleaxe

10x HGB w/ Poleaxe

10x HGB w/ Broadaxe

Same Warlord/HotH set-up for Battalions. I didn't pick an Enhancement for the Warlord perk yet. Not sure what would really be most beneficial. The +2 artifacts plus the base one eats up all the good stuff available. I guess Arcane Tome? Thoughts? I'd love some feedback on this list, especially since I have all but I think the Runesons and 5 AHG built, so I can get this on the table pretty quick (lmao not really, because I got to paint everything).