AoS 3 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Voltek]

I have been thinking Vostarg Vulkite spam may be decent in the objective game. Some list ideas I have toyed around with involve 60+ Vulkites. I feel like we can get to a high wound, good save and with ward we have staying power to sit on objectives. Alot of the meta is low model count and potentially we can keep objectives long enough to out score regardless of enemies damage. Basically we could attempt to play it like we are a Sons army. The disadvantage is if we were to play against Sons they would most likely have more bodies on objectives than us.

I definitely feel like there is something there though. I think Hermdar is the only truly bad subfaction and it's a shame we didn't get more.

[DwarfsOnly]

7 hours ago, Lechu said:

Can you post your list? Thx

 - Army Faction: Fyreslayers
     - Subfaction: Greyfyrd
     - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
     - Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Auric Runefather (125)*
     - General
     - Command Traits: Spirit of Grimnir
     - Artefacts of Power: Axe of Grimnir
Auric Runemaster (125)*
     - Prayers: Heal
Auric Runesmiter (135)*
     - Runic Iron 
     - Artefacts of Power: Volatile Brazier
     - Prayers: Prayer Of Ash
Battlesmith (150)***
     - Artefacts of Power: Nulsidian Icon
Auric Runeson (80)***
     - Ancestral War-axe
     - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome
     - Spells: Flaming Weapon
Auric Flamekeeper (90)***
BATTLELINE
15 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (480)**
     - Flamestrike Poleaxe
15 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (480)**
     - Berzerker Broadaxe
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (160)**
     - Fyresteel War-pick and Bladed Slingshield
OTHER
1 x Grimwrath Berzerker (105)*

- Draught of Magmalt Ale
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Molten Infernoth (70)
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Warlord
 -  **Hunters of the Heartlands
 -  ***Command Entourage
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

 

This will definitely see changes from me. It was first list and just testing. The spirit of grimnir was particularly just to see if it was impactful. Maybe too swingy for my taste though it did give me an enhanced rune twice in both games.

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by DwarfsOnly

[Lordneylon]

Dear friends,

I want to play a semicompetitive Vostarg army list.

I would appreciate your kind advice and opinions.

VOSTARG

Auric Runeson (80)
Auric Runemaster (125)
Auric Flamekeeper (90)
Auric Runefather (125)
Battlesmith (150)

Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)
Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (170)
Vulkite Berzerkers with Bladed Slingshields (320)

Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)

Grimwrath Berzerker (105)

TOTAL POINTS: (1975/2000)

THANKS

[Ser_namron]

Had my first game with SCE. They had a shooting heavy list. I went with a pretty stock greyfyrd list with 2x 15 HGB retinues and 2 10x vulkites with shields for objectives. 

Battlesmith and grimwrath got shot off the table first hero phase shooting from him. Just impossible to really save the Smith. 

Retinue ability is great for our Rs/Rf but it really blows we don't have something for the other heros. They have no chance of surviving halfway decent shooting. 

The strike first command ability was great, my opponent didn't want to charge my HGB in fear. I used it on some vulkite berserkers with shields and pickaxes, along with the fight on death since they were getting smoked by anhilators that turn. They hit like a wet noodle, 1 attack each is pitiful, but the 4+ armor is why I brought them, not that it made such difference. 

This was my first game with FS in like 3 years, I made some massive mistakes for sure. Used the movement rune turn 1 to grab all 3 objectives but didn't make it into combat, then he got a double turn and just stuffed me with 1 hero phase shooting and 2 more rounds of regular shooting not to mention dropping units outside 7" once a turn. We called it when he won priority for turn 3. 

So shooting is a real kick in the balls just as expected. I should've positioned better so I could have used the prayer to make a terrain feature block LOS, hid my Smith behind it. But it wasn't really doable with the table setup. Wondering if the 150 points is worth bringing the Smith when he's almost gaurenteed to die to some decent shooting. 

 

[Doko]

As i said many times,smith is 100% useless. The ward cant be used by hg and we have many others wards in our book.

The rally is useless being only out of melle,and 150 points is as 50 overcosted.also no chance to defend him.so easy as if enemy have shooting he gonna be deleted the first and if enemy havent shootimg then you cant use rally because models are in combat

Same reason than flamekeeper is bad also,but he cost only 90 points so isnt big if we loose him.

And vulkites have too much low damage to even consider bringing them to a competitive game.

Only father\son + retinue of hg is close to competitive,any other unit of our book isnt competitive.

Even runesmitter and runemaster dont worth his points when gonna be killed in one turn of shooting but we need bring them if we want  any buff because now that we havent any cp only they can give us any buff.

Loosing two priest to first alpha double shooting of sc isnt big deal,better than loose nagash,teclis,maw krusha as other armys

Is a must have father+15hg and two son+10hg that are around 1400 points,the others for competitive gonna be dragons of sc for sure and then fill the rest

Edited March 12, 2022 by Doko

[Bonesplitterz]

11 minutes ago, Doko said:

As i said many times,smith is 100% useless. The ward cant be used by hg and we have many others wards in our book.

The rally is useless being only out of melle,and 150 points is as 50 overcosted.also no chance to defend him.

Same reason than flamekeeper is bad also,but he cost only 90 points so isnt big if we loose him.

And vulkites have too much low damage to even consider bringing them to a competitive game.

Only father\son + retinue of hg is close to competitive,any other unit of our book isnt competitive.

Even runesmitter and runemaster dont worth his points when gonna be killed in one turn of shooting but we need bring them if we want  any buff because now that we havent any cp only they can give us any buff.

Loosing two priest to first alpha double shooting of sc isnt big deal,better than loose nagash,teclis,maw krusha as other armys

Just sell your army and go to another thread. Thanks and nice a a day.

[Doko]

If you dont like read my post backed by data you can choose very fast and easy in my name the option of ignore as i gonna do with you after write this(and report you for useless post of course)

I see many persons are salty because dont like if i says as almost everything in our book is bad,but math dont lie.

Also i have many pm here and reddit with people asking me for guides,tier lists,example of lists etc and that is the reason that i am posting yet.

I guess i only gonna answer by pm and dont post more and so i can laugth seeing persons loosing every game spaming vulkites with flamekepeers,battlesmiths and grinwrath and then posting asking for help to try win a game

[Enoby]

++ Mod Hat ++

Please keep it civil. @Doko I totally understand you not liking the book, but constantly stating you don't like it isn't particularly helpful for people here to discuss the army and doesn't create an environment conductive to productive discussion on the thread. 

You may think the new book sucks, and that's totally fine, but the book is out and won't change soon, so there's only really a point in discussing what you can do with it. People want to know how to play, not be told that they shouldn't bother even trying. 

[Doko]

1 hour ago, Enoby said:

++ Mod Hat ++

Please keep it civil. @Doko I totally understand you not liking the book, but constantly stating you don't like it isn't particularly helpful for people here to discuss the army and doesn't create an environment conductive to productive discussion on the thread. 

You may think the new book sucks, and that's totally fine, but the book is out and won't change soon, so there's only really a point in discussing what you can do with it. People want to know how to play, not be told that they shouldn't bother even trying. 

Have you even read my post?i have wriitten as 15 post saying how play with the new book and in my last 15 post i havent said anithing about the book bad or all bad.

I have said what is th best units and what play competitive that is 100% the oposite that you are saying

[DrewGo]

49 minutes ago, Doko said:

Have you even read my post?i have wriitten as 15 post saying how play with the new book and in my last 15 post i havent said anithing about the book bad or all bad.

I have said what is th best units and what play competitive that is 100% the oposite that you are saying

I think the issue is that you are completely dismissive of anyone who suggests they want to try something different from your suggestions. 

You claim to be trying to offer advice and be helpful, but your tone is condescending, and your advice is just the same thing over and over again. "Bring Hearthguard. Everything else is worthless." You dismiss out of hand anyone who disagrees with you, even if they present evidence to support thier opinion. 

FWIW I am not bothered by your posts, but it's also not surprising to me that you are rubbing people the wrong way. Try being open to discussion. I know you play competitively, but unless you're some big AoS tournament champion, we're all just a buncha schlubs chatting about the rules for fake battles with some naked mohawk dwarves. 

[DwarfsOnly]

8 hours ago, Doko said:

As i said many times,smith is 100% useless. The ward cant be used by hg and we have many others wards in our book.

The rally is useless being only out of melle,and 150 points is as 50 overcosted.also no chance to defend him.so easy as if enemy have shooting he gonna be deleted the first and if enemy havent shootimg then you cant use rally because models are in combat

And vulkites have too much low damage to even consider bringing them to a competitive game.

Well, won my game against Soulblight today off the back of the Smith and Vulkites. I was testing a Vulkite heavy Vostarg list. Which I'll post below. Basically a way to test the "less than desirable units."

So even with a 2+ save the Vuilkites were able to kill the opponents Lauka Vai along with bocks of zombies with no issue. I also probably rallied back 40 vulkites throughout the game. When the opponents zombies and heroes cleared them I would pull to outside 3" and then rally at start of next hero. At one point I had a block of 30 down to 2 Vulkites left but rallied back 16 of them to have 18 in the unit which promptly blew Lauka Vai on the charge.

Aurics were bodyguarding for a vulkite-wrapped Runefather that did work since I knew zombeis would pile in 6".  

My opponent had offensive spellcasting, but I managed to negate it with Nulsidian combined with terrain blocking LoS. 

My buddy won a game off IDK (running new book, too) with Greyfyrd running heavy Shield Vulkites. 

Oh, also the Molten Infernoth has been a beast in all 3 of my games with new book. Just dumping MWs on people.

Maybe there's more juice in these units you've written off? Perhaps you should play some games.

 

List (EDIT: will probably modify it a lot, but was a first run):
     - Subfaction: Vostarg
     - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
     - Triumph: Indomitable
LEADERS
Auric Runemaster (125)**
     - General
     - Command Traits: Master Priest
     - Prayers: Heal
Auric Flamekeeper (90)**
Auric Runefather (125)**
     - Artefacts of Power: Axe of Grimnir
Battlesmith (150)***
     - Artefacts of Power: Nulsidian Icon
Auric Runesmiter (135)***
     - Runic Iron 
     - Artefacts of Power: Volatile Brazier
     - Prayers: Prayer Of Ash
Battlesmith (150)***
BATTLELINE
30 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (510)*
20 x Vulkite Berzerkers with Fyresteel Handaxes (340)*
10 x Auric Hearthguard (250)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Zharrgron Flame-spitter (55)
1 x Molten Infernoth (70)
TERRAIN
1 x Magmic Battleforge (0)
CORE BATTALIONS
 -  *Hunters of the Heartlands
 -  **Command Entourage
 -  ***Command Entourage
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by DwarfsOnly

[Ser_namron]

Oh boy just played 2 games today with the playgroup. first against maggotkin of nurgle and 2nd against new Deepkin. Lost both pretty decisively by the end of the 2nd round. Well, the deepkin won first turn on turn 3 and had a perfect charge into my last HGB/RF unit with eels/turtle/thralls so i just scooped. The deepkin game should have honestly been mine, i got the double from 1 into 2 and i didnt use the auto 6 run with a unit of 15 hgb and they only got a 2 which left them a like 11 inch charge they didnt make, which allowed his King and eels to charge my other HGB/RF that were tied up with the leviadon and some more stuff.

Gotta be honest fighting deepkin got me salty. The strike first abilities that army now has are stupid good. Our fight first has proven in 3 games to be pretty mediocre tbh. It only works the first turn the units charged, it can only be applied to a unit 1x a game, and using it on vulkite berserkers is a waste of a CP unless you've got nothing else to use them on. Its still a solid tool, but when you put it up against the deepkin its not even close, i think they could've made ours simply fight first in the start of combat 1x a turn with a unit, even if it remained 1x a battle. 

The Bsmith and rally worked for me 2 times out of 3 games. My units were just never truly out of combat at the right time to gain it. When it did work it was great though, got 3 HGb back once, and 5 VKB back another time. But for 150 its overpriced. Especially when the 6+ward save doesnt really do much for us. If someone targets your heroes, a 6+ isnt going to make much difference, and trying to keep them on units of vulkite is only worht it if your bringing a heavy volstarg list i think. The nulsidian icon was pretty clutch against Maggotkin though. They have a ton of AOE spells. 

I think im going to lean into HGB with axes more, the chains just whiffed so much, and when they arent hitting 6s that no rend 1 damage profile is just absolute ****** for what they cost. 

Vulkites with shields hit like wet noodles, they 100% shouldve made the unit 2" reach. 1 attack pickaxes with a unit of 10 usually got me like 3-4 in range of actual combat when something charged them. But im only using 10 man units for objectives not in volstarg, but my experience so far makes me want to leave them in the box and just take 5 more HGB at that point. 

I only got to use the Daunting assault 1x over 3 games, i thought it would be much better, but its pretty hard to sneak a hero up to the front line while trying to keep the retinue within 9" for the shrug. I was constantly having problems keeping my Runefather/son near the HGB unit trying to make a charge. 

Maggotkin are just honestly hard to remove. Plague bearers all buffed up are a friggin wall and the mortals from diseases ended up destroying my vulkite berserkers and doing alot to everyone else. He was rolling hot. THe contagion table or w/e its called is brutal too. stopped me from doing heroic actions or the auto save battleshock/rally for 2 turns, then the next one was my units couldnt pile in, for 2 turns. Just brutal ******. 

List- 
RF- General- Grimnir spirit- Master rune of unbreakable resolve
Runemaster- arcane tome- Ghost mist ( knew i was gonna be playing Heavy SCE shooting wanted some cover) 
Battlesmith- Nulsidian icon
Runeson on magmadroth- Axe of grimnir/cold heart ancient
VKB w/ shield x10
VKB w/ shield x10
HGB x15 poleaxes
HGB x15 Broadaxes
Hunter of heartlands/ warlord battalions

Idk, i gotta play better for sure, but theres some pretty big weaknesses in this army after 3 games. HGB/ Runeson/father combo is great, all day every day. Runemaster and the magamdroth Rs/RF are great. The fact Runesmiter magmadroth doesnt have the retinue shrug means i will probably never take it outside of a Lofnir list, its just way to vulnerable. Battlesmith as i mentioned above just seems like its a waste of 150 points most the time, but nulsidian icon was clutch against maggotkin, but useless against sce/deepkin. Grimwrath seems really fun, but he just gets shot right off the table before he can make it into combat with his 4" movement. In 3 games all i was happy with was the HGB/RF/RS and runemaster. Gonna get some more games in this week and see if i still wanna play them going forward. FS are quickly becoming HGB/RF spam for me, and tbh thats kinda boring. but i also dont wanna buy/build/paint 80 vulkites to test out the other lodge haha. 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Ser_namron

[Goose madness]

I see a lot of posts saying battlesmiths are getting shot of the board turn 1. 

I was thinking of using a Runesmiter to hide the BS outside the board and pop him down later in game when a rally was needed. 

 

Not sure how effective that would be tho. 

[Ser_namron]

3 hours ago, Goose madness said:

I see a lot of posts saying battlesmiths are getting shot of the board turn 1. 

I was thinking of using a Runesmiter to hide the BS outside the board and pop him down later in game when a rally was needed. 

 

Not sure how effective that would be tho. 

I think it would be effective in keeping him alive sure. I just don't know if it's worth sinking 285 points of heroes underground for a turn or two where they give no benefit to the army. Runesmiter can't pray when he's underground so your losing out on any potential buffs for the turns your down there too. The rally is great when it lines up and works out, but in my limited experience of 3 games, that's been 2x so far. It's hard to justify that Instead of just having more bodies on the table for objectives imo.

Someone earlier here mentioned pulling from the front line to get outside 3" then rallying, that Definitely seems like the move. You can rally in any hero phase if I'm not mistaken? So doing that even if they get a double turn to charge right back in you'll get to get 1 rally off first. 

[DwarfsOnly]

49 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

ISomeone earlier here mentioned pulling from the front line to get outside 3" then rallying, that Definitely seems like the move. You can rally in any hero phase if I'm not mistaken? So doing that even if they get a double turn to charge right back in you'll get to get 1 rally off first. 

Yes, it's at the start of any hero phase. The picture below is an example of this in practice. Front row was 1" from rear row as a self-screen. That was a unit of 20 axes originally. Seven of them were up front spread along the zombies to "catch them" knowing they pile-in 6" (rare ability). They did 12 wounds (there were a lot more zombies before fight on death), I removed most of the screen, intentionally leaving 1 out of coherency. I picked up the out of coherency one and was >3" from zombies. He double turned me but I rallied back 7 of the 10 Vulkites and put them down in a line at the bottom with a triangle at the end to screen my smith/runemaster form the wolves coming in. He ended up having to commit too much to this singel objective.

[GrimDork]

I bought fury of the deep, primarily for the idoneth, but I also plan to keep the fyreslayer half to use as a small army in itself and to maybe use for Barak Thryng. If I enjoy painting them I may even expand them later (I quite fancy painting a Magmadroth).
To be honest tho, I don’t know much about Fyreslayers.
Does anyone have any advice on how best to assemble the minis from Fury of the Deep?
Hearthguard or Beserkers? Or should I go 5 & 5? What weapon option?

Also what’s the best option for Vulkites?

I know these things are highly subjective but I would appreciate any input you have.

[DwarfsOnly]

26 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

I bought fury of the deep, primarily for the idoneth, but I also plan to keep the fyreslayer half to use as a small army in itself and to maybe use for Barak Thryng. If I enjoy painting them I may even expand them later (I quite fancy painting a Magmadroth).
To be honest tho, I don’t know much about Fyreslayers.
Does anyone have any advice on how best to assemble the minis from Fury of the Deep?
Hearthguard or Beserkers? Or should I go 5 & 5? What weapon option?

Also what’s the best option for Vulkites?

I know these things are highly subjective but I would appreciate any input you have.

Vulkites are situational. Shields are a better tarpit, axes are a better damage dealer/main battleline.

Assemble as 10x Hearthguard. Aurics are far more situational and rarely used. Poleaxes and Broadaxes both have use. A lot of people like Broadaxes, but Poleaxes are the more universal choice as they work in all situations while Broadaxes work much better into less tanky armies.

Make sure to assemble them such that the heads are easily removed before painting. Painting with the heads on is much more difficult as their beards get in the way. 

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm selling off all my FS army now.  Too many other projects and not enough money.  Here's links to my auctions if anyone needs more dudes:

Age of Sigmar Fyreslayers 2 Runesmiters 10 Auric Hearthguard n Berzerkers n bits | eBay

Age of Sigmar Fyreslayers 20 Vulkite Berzerkers w shields 10 axes 10 warpicks | eBay

[Havkai]

I had pretty good experience with slayers so far, won twice against SCE raptors, went toe to toe with ID. And won yesterdays 1250 tourney, besting SGL, TL and IJ, later 2 persons being among top players in the country. I see armies cons but no army has all pros. That's just like the time everyone said nurgle is weak or sgl is weak and such

[peasant]

Well, I bought this morning the battletome... But this would be a slow project...

Idk yet If I Will go lofnir magmadroth spam or vorstarg vulkite horde (abusing the use of mw runes with a runemaster general)

 

[5kaven5lave]

What’s the verdict on reroll chants vs. additional range for prayers? Was probably gonna go for rerolls to give a better chance of it going off?

HGBs in 10s or 15s?

Also, I really wanna take Aurics, will this end badly?

Army Faction: Fyreslayers
    - Army Subfaction: Greyfyrd
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Auric Runefather (125)
    - General
    - Command Traits: Spirit of Grimnir
    - Artefacts: Axe of Grimnir

Auric Runeson (80)
    - Ancestral War-axe
    - Artefacts: The Daemon Slayer

Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (340)
    - Runic Iron
    - Mount Traits: Coal-heart Ancient
    - Prayers: Curse

Auric Flamekeeper (90)

Battlesmith (150)
    - Artefacts: Nulsidian Icon

BATTLELINE

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
    - Berzerker Broadaxe

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
    - Berzerker Broadaxe

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
    - Flamestrike Poleaxe

OTHER

1 x Auric Hearthguard (250)

TOTAL POINTS: (1995/2000)

Or should I just swap the Flamekeeper for a Runemaster, put the Father on Droth instead and take 10 Vulkites instead of Aurics? Ta!

[peasant]

On 3/15/2022 at 9:30 PM, 5kaven5lave said:

What’s the verdict on reroll chants vs. additional range for prayers? Was probably gonna go for rerolls to give a better chance of it going off?

HGBs in 10s or 15s?

Also, I really wanna take Aurics, will this end badly?

Army Faction: Fyreslayers
    - Army Subfaction: Greyfyrd
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Auric Runefather (125)
    - General
    - Command Traits: Spirit of Grimnir
    - Artefacts: Axe of Grimnir

Auric Runeson (80)
    - Ancestral War-axe
    - Artefacts: The Daemon Slayer

Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (340)
    - Runic Iron
    - Mount Traits: Coal-heart Ancient
    - Prayers: Curse

Auric Flamekeeper (90)

Battlesmith (150)
    - Artefacts: Nulsidian Icon

BATTLELINE

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
    - Berzerker Broadaxe

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
    - Berzerker Broadaxe

1 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)
    - Flamestrike Poleaxe

OTHER

1 x Auric Hearthguard (250)

TOTAL POINTS: (1995/2000)

Or should I just swap the Flamekeeper for a Runemaster, put the Father on Droth instead and take 10 Vulkites instead of Aurics? Ta!

Im having a great time thinking army lists. Maybe a lot of shooting and invocatioms are the Way to go!

I think we hace a lot of Powerful choices but generally only once per battle

[Ser_namron]

Had my 4th game with new book, 2nd against deepkin. I'm gonna be brutally honest, our tome feels like a joke compared to theirs.

- Army Faction: Fyreslayers

 - Subfaction: Greyfyrd

 - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

LEADERS

Auric Runeson on Magmadroth (320)

 - Ancestral War-axe

 - Artefacts of Power: The Daemon Slayer

Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (360)*

 - General

 - Command Traits: Blood of the Berzerker

 - Artefacts of Power: Axe of Grimnir

Auric Runeson (80)*

 - Ancestral War-axe

 - Artefacts of Power: Arcane Tome

 - Spells: Flaming Weapon

Auric Runemaster (125)*

 - Artefacts of Power: Droth-helm

 - Prayers: Curse

Battlesmith (150)*

BATTLELINE

10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)**

 - Berzerker Broadaxe

10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)**

 - Berzerker Broadaxe

10 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (320)**

 - Flamestrike Poleaxe

TERRAIN

1 x Magmic Battleforge (0)

CORE BATTALIONS

 -  *Command Entourage

 -  **Hunters of the Heartlands

TOTAL POINTS: 1995/2000

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Battleplan- Holding power ( i think, idr the exact name, 6 objectives, 3 on the edge of each deployment) 

Opponent gives me first turn, i can possibly make one charge into a leviadon with HGB if i use the +2 rune and get a decent charge roll but wont be able to get my magmadroth hero that goes with the retinue into it too. And i dont wanna put the magmadroth up front so i decide to hunker down on objectives and let them come to me ( probably not the best idea because they pretty much just take the game turn 3 in my experience, but more on that later). If i moved the army forward in hopes of getting first go turn 2 i just leave myself completely open to the charge, his eels/allopexes have 14" flying, he can make units run and charge by putting them into a different tide, so thralls can haul ass and charge too, either way im getting charged in whatever fashion they want if i move up a few inches. 

Opponents first turn- moves up but doesnt charge, shoots into my general RF on magma and gets 5 wounds through and kills 1 HGB (using 1 leviadon and 2 allopexes). 

I win turn 2 initiative, i burn the far left objective so i can consolidate my other 10man HGB unit into the real battle. again the only charge i can make is into the leviadon and possibly some eels, but the eels would have been a massive charge. I also didnt wanna use the +2 movement rune in case they got a double turn and im just stuck in a fully strikes first combat with no added benefit to any units that survive. So i move forward to deny them 6" range on my objectives for the inevitable charge. Get a mystic shield off on one unit of HGB, miss my prayer of ash so no -1 to be wounded. Tuck my heroes safely away but have my Bsmith still giving all my heroes 6+ ward with the aura ( i shouldve used the 1x per battle ability on the next turn but it wouldnt have changed much.) Got my magmadroths behind their respective retinues. 

Their turn 2 they shoot the ****** outta my runeson magmadroth and put 7 wounds on him. Make some thralls be able to run and charge, give them auto 6 run, and they come down the flank of the side i burned the objective on ( burned it because i knew they were coming and needed to reinforce the other 2 objectives i had from the impending onslaught). They move the allopexs, Leviadon, arkhelian king well within charging range. The king charges in between 2 HGB units ( just enough space between them) to get between all 3 units ( giving King +6 attacks due to a command trait he has) the leviadon and shraks go into 1 unit of HGB, and the thralls charge the other unit that burned the objective and were coming to flank. end of charge phase, he uses Kings ability and gives 1d3 ( rolled 2) units their turn 3 tide ability to fight first. So he chooses the thralls first because they were engaged with my HGB that i picked to counter attack. Thralls come in with +1 to hit because of Kings aura ( just +1 to hit 12" range all day) and extra hits on 6s because of thrall master. Thrall master is what they got when we got flamekeeper, hes 110 points, and can give a unit 1 of 3 abilities every combat, so like our flamekeeper, but doesnt need 6 of your guys to die near them first to be useful, and then needing ANOTHER 6 to die before using it again. So just a better version of ours. Thralls, a 130 point unit, destroy 8 HGB. the 2 remaining ones attack back and get 1 wound through.. His next first strike unit of allopexes goes into my other HGB unit, much better luck on rolls and he only gets 4 of them. my turn to attack? NO, now its his normal activate, arkelian king goes ****** ham, his first weapon deals 18 damage to my magmadroth, i only have 2 HGB left in the retinue, he destroys both. his 2nd weapon was dedicated to my magmadroth so he didnt get to use it, but the mount goes into my injured HGB and gets 1 or 2 more. I attack back into the king with the remaining HGB, and actually finish him off. The leviadon drops 3 attacks worth 4 dmg a piece into the HGB, they fail their 6+ armor saves  ( surprise) and get blown off the table. end of combat. 

They win the double turn, i extend the hand. 

There was not one moment i felt in control of the game. I got pretty much table'd bottom of turn 2, and turn 3 everything gets fight first so my 10hgb/ RF on magmadroth wouldnt have even gotten an attack in. And its not like the runemaster or battlesmith are bringing anything to combat. So maybe i shouldve been more aggressive, ran forward turn 1 regardless, hoping to charge 1 unit into combat with a leviadon that has a 2+ save. Wouldnt have changed a thing, he wouldve just made even more charges with thralls in addition to everything else. They get to decide when and where they engage, thats the fact of the matter. and our 1x a enemy turn strike first, well obviously not the best army to have it against. Tell me how our ability is good again when ****** like this exists in other armies? We have nothing to stop shooting but this army laughs at shooting. I know you cant compare army to army because its apples and oranges, but in this case they came out at the same time, and the most powerful ability we had got nerfed, and theirs got extremely buffed, one operates similar to the other, but its easy to see which is better. 

It just feels bad, we are a melee army, right? We dont have magic ( outside of an artifact for 1 of 3 spells), our shooting is... lets call it subpar😅. But we get 4 " movement, 1 prayer with a chance to make a single unit run and charge ( failed both my 2 prayer attempts tonight) and a command trait that gives us +1 charge within a limited range. Point is, its hard to initiate combat on my terms, yet the only thing the army has, is combat. So now we have to be reactive in combat, thats well and fine, we used to be tankier, able to endure with more reliable armor saves. But those armor save buffs are gone, the ward saves are the same, and the only thing that endures better now are the RF/RS at the expense of our reliably resilient unit. Being reactive in combat means dying and waiting for your turn to swing back with whatevers left. Our counter-attack is so limited that it will allow 1 unit to be proactive but only in an enemy phase, and at the cost of a CP and only on 2 units ( 3 but lets be real we're not counting auric Hearthgaurd for a melee counter attack.). Its just an uphill battle no matter how you look at it. Why play an army thats identity is to push forward and get into melee because its all they have, when they cant even reliably do that. 

I dusted this army off for the new book after taking a 2 year break from AOS, and i think ill put them back and look towards other armies that actually have Magic/shooting. Mainly shooting, because its just way too good in this game to just not have it. I gave the new book a solid try, i think Greyfyrd has the most potential, but maybe vulkite spam is the way to go. The idea of an army that is mainly about removing models so you can have a chance to put them back down so they can die again does not appeal to me however. 

I hope to see some badass FS players taking some 4-1/5-0 tourneys, but i am not gonna hold my breath when ****** like IDK is coming out at the same time. 

 

 

[NinthMusketeer]

On 3/12/2022 at 7:42 AM, Doko said:

As i said many times,smith is 100% useless. The ward cant be used by hg and we have many others wards in our book.

The rally is useless being only out of melle,and 150 points is as 50 overcosted.also no chance to defend him.so easy as if enemy have shooting he gonna be deleted the first and if enemy havent shootimg then you cant use rally because models are in combat

If he's useless why is the enemy shooting him first? Though ironically that is itself a use. In fact, I would go so far as to say all of these statements are untrue. Maybe dial back the hyperbole?

 

 

@Ser_namron tbf I am seeing a number of errors in that game;

-Can't burn objectives on your side of the board

-King's +1 hit aura is 9" and doesn't affect namarti

-He triggers the king's fight first ability at the end of the charge phase, BEFORE you decide to use the strike first fyreslayers ability

-The king only gets the bonus attacks from that trait while he is under the affect of high tide, so he would not have had the +6 attacks

-Statistically it would take 43 thrall attacks to kill 8 hearthguard, assuming they have +1 to hit and are hitting twice on 6s. A 10-man unit puts out 21 attacks, so I am pretty sure something went wrong there. Were the hearthguard not getting their 4+ ward?

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by NinthMusketeer

[Ser_namron]

on the Bsmith- for 150 points he doesnt do what he should. Rally is a great mechanic on paper, but its rare that a unit that lost models is out of combat the same turn it took those. if his ability let us rally IN combat, hed be a no brainer pick. but outside of combat makes its efficiency drop off. Maybe in vulkite spam he gets more value for his points, but in a HGB heavy list, i've been able to get 3x hgb back 1 time, which no doubt felt good, but was it worth 150 points over 4 lists? I dont think so. Its too much of a gimmick. and 6+ ward in a 12" WW bubble is not what our army needed. HGB have a 4+ and thats all im bringing anymore as far as infantry because vulkites hit like wet noodles. keeping the +1 AS buff wouldve been so much better. and a 6+ ward isnt going to keep our heroes alive who dont have royal retinue. The entire hero line shouldve had the retinue ability. even if non son/fathers couldnt get the 4+ ward save shrug, itd still be great to have the bodygaurd ability to protect them at the cost of our units.

 

10 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

tbf I am seeing a number of errors in that game;

-Can't burn objectives on your side of the board

-King's +1 hit aura is 9" and doesn't affect namarti

-He triggers the king's fight first ability at the end of the charge phase, BEFORE you decide to use the strike first fyreslayers ability

-The king only gets the bonus attacks from that trait while he is under the affect of high tide, so he would not have had the +6 attacks

-Statistically it would take 43 thrall attacks to kill 8 hearthguard, assuming they have +1 to hit and are hitting twice on 6s. A 10-man unit puts out 21 attacks, so I am pretty sure something went wrong there. Were the hearthguard not getting their 4+ ward?

confirmed with my friend, he def messed up a few things and got some big ol powerups because of it, so 100% you can take my writeup with a grain of salt now, though i think alot of the sentiment still stands, especially the movement based complaints for an entirely melee army. 

- So we played the Power in numbers scenario. and there isnt anything about not burning our own objectives unless thats a core rule? Says on turn 2 we can burn an objective we control in the battleplan. 

- Kings +1 hit aura wasnt actually the one giving it, i thought it was, but it was the leviadon on the other side of the king, whose range was 15" due to an artifact or trait. So that checked out still, just wasnt from what i thought it was. However, he was also giving +1 to hit to his ranged units with kings melee only aura. So i had like 34 attacks from his turtle and sharks that were hitting on 2s and doing d3 wounds a piece. Another swing in his favor. 

-triggering the king first doesnt really matter though? He gets to decide what fights first regardless no? If your suggesting i picked something without one of his units that was gonna strike first, i didnt have that option. Ours only affects infantry, and he had chosen 2 units each engaged with 1 of my HGB, so no matter what he gets to strike first, and he just fights first with the unit that is in combat with the unit i used the counter attack on. Unless we are misinterpreting how strike first priority works, my point stands, he just gets to attack first and in this case decimate my unit. 

- kings bonus attacks ISSSSSS only in high tide, very good to know, my opponent has been misinterpreting that rule ( it happens obviously with new tomes) 

- thrall mass murder- So he gave himself +1 attack because he thought 1 wound and 2 wound models trigger that for thralls, which is incorrect, they only get +1 attack on models with 1 wound. So the thralls had and extra 10 attacks, and he ended up hitting with more than he rolled due to exploding 6s. I also didnt roll great on my ward saves ( only had a 6 AS) . 


So 100% quite a few powerful mistakes that swung stuff his way. Maybe he wouldnt kill that HGB unit and i could have swung more into the king before his activate and maybe even removed him since hes quite squishy. And his King wouldnt have done 18 wounds with his first attack. That being said, turn 3 was a roll away, he still blew out the other unit of HGB, nothing changed for that. theres a chance i couldve attacked back with a RS on magmadroth at a very reduced profile, but that wasnt going to save me from a turn 3 strike first entire army that only has 1 unit of HGB and 1 magmadroth as targets ( 2 foot heroes too liek i said, but at that point they dont matter). 

I think my main gripes that i keep encountering are these
- our ability to choose engagements is trash, 1x prayer for a chance at run and charge with 1 unit that has 4" movement outside of using a movement rune to get 1 unit into combat that so far has ended up with me getting double turned 2x and having the shittiest rune effect active for 3 turns with no mechanical benefits for actually fighting. 
-an army that has an entire turn at what is usually the crescendo of the the battle ( turn 3) that strikes first, and the ability to give multiple units strike first during the other turns completely an utterly blows our counter attack ability out of the water ( pun intended) 
- Bsmith rally and counter attack are to situational even though it seems to be the main gimmicks the rules writers were looking to instill with this book. It just does not work as well as intended, even more so being 1x a battle per unit, and only on enemies turn. Its just so watered down. Even vulkites fight on death being limited to 1x a game kinda sucks and the same with Runefathers command ability ( couldve made it 1x a game PER RF.) 
- armor saves are pretty meh. ya its great having a 4+ ward on HGB, but it doesnt matter what your ward save is when theirs attacks that come in for 3-5 damage with rend 1-3 and you just auto take like 12 wounds at a time. HGB should be 4+armor and ward imo, or we needed to keep Bsmith armor save buff rather than ANOTHER ward save option with limited range ( rune for 6/5 ward or blow up our anvil for 6+ both army wide. ) 
- units are too expensive almost across the board. Vulkites are not worth it imo, they only have a high cost due to being 2 wound models, but they have a 5+as with no ward innately, and a 6 if their lucky, or a 5+ for a turn within limited range. The shield and picks are an absolute joke, 1 attack 1" reach, your lucky if 4-5 get to even strike back. Even HGB, the ward save is great, but the armor sucks, they arent some unmovable unit, weight of attacks or any decent rend multiple damage attacks are going to clean them out like everything else. Poleaxes are quite useless unless you hit 6s, i mean its a -rend/1dmg attack outside the mortals. the broadaxes HGB at least are consistent with the damage, i think their pretty great offensively. Magmadroths need to drop down too, i dont think by a ton, but 360 for RF on magmadroth is not hitting its weight at that point cost, even more so when the biggest ability on the scroll is a 1x a battle use.