AoS 3 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Doko]

Really if you think vulkites are great as i said go for it and have fun with them playing 70+ nothimg stop you.

To me as said the main problem is the coherency,because a msu unit is allways bad(not only vulkites) because havent damage to kill monsters or other units.

Vulkites with range 2" would be then something that i would try it with blocks of 30,but only 10 dont worth it.

As you said with the huge nerf to points of hearthguard now the damage per points is the same or even better for vulkites(but rend vs no rend is huge) but the thing that does for me non competitive vulkites is the fact that cant be played in 10+ models.

Because even if a msu unit of vulkites have the same or better damage than msu hg(but no rend) in a real game we gonna can attack with runefather+15hg(with attack first cp used twice on the hg,one time due to use cp on father and other with the cp on hg) while vulkites only gonna attack 7 of 10 or so and if charge with multiple units of vulkites the enemy gonna can activate betwen and kill one of these.

Also the attack when die is great but only one time per game is hard to factoring to calculate his damage.

So,last post that i speak about vulkites because havent sense more.

The book seems want give us one very fun and in paper VERY good build with spam of vulkites in vostarg,attacking when die and charging multiples flamekepeerd while getting back vulkites with rally.

This sound amazing! But have some huge problems that makes it non viable in competitive:

-vulkites again imposible use with 10+ units

-attack when die only one time per game,so the thematic bring back vulkites with rally to attack again when die dont work

-smith and keepers havent  nothimg to protect them against shooting or units with fly,so they only gonna be killed turn1 and we loose the key units for this combo

-many bonus to when charge,but with only mov4" usually they gonna be charged and not charge

-they havent rend(only one turn of rend with rune to ignore all out defense isnt enougth) so these monsters and units with save 2 gonna laugth of us.

-rally being in hero phase and non in combat makes useless the smith against melle armys.

So to me even if in paper sound really amazing and fun the vulkites spam when we try it in a game we see huge handicaps to do it non viable.

But this is only my opinion and experience because usually i cant do nothing to keep out of vision my foot heroes and i cant play fast and get many vulkites in combat(if i have 5 hours to measure everything i could get 10 in combat but with only 2'5 hours in a game i cant waste time each turn on them).

If you can protect your foot heroes and get the maximun damage of your vulkites then forget everything that i said and go to winning tournaments and have fun with your vulkites because this build sound very fun in theory.

I think only gonna stick to use one big ball of father+15 hg as the bulk of the army,then other two balls of father or son+10(or 15 if i have points)hg to go to sides and get objetives.

Then not too much more points,some monster is needed,magmadroths arent competitives but i would need one priest,so or some smith on foot or if i have points one on magma. Also maybe one unit of sc dragons because they are fast and monster so i can get the extra vp of monsters.

I havent done numbers and i dont know id i gonna have points for all this,but its my idea about the most competitive build with new book.

Sure greyfird giving enhacements to the fathers\sons. 

I see some problems as get the charge with only the father and not the retinue and then we have alone the father in melle and for sure gonna die and let the hg without ward also,or charge the hb and faill the father is the same.

Also only mov4 also is very slow,so maybe be needed the prayer of run and charge but the foot heroe wont can keep with the retinue then.

Dragons of sc are needed for the move and monsters,but they gonna be nerfed soon,maybe a ice phoenyx can do the work also.

Dont take it as me saying vulkites are useless and dont play them,but in my opinion and for me they sound great in paper but in real games they wont be competitives

 

[Malakithe]

I called Greyfyrd as probably being the best. It makes sense since it buffs up foot heroes for slightly better longevity vs being an easy squishy target like a monster. It buffs the death-star FatherHGB. Assuming you can keep them both within each others range while they charge...

Thats pretty much the list. Everything else is filler. Or add more with SonHGB mini-stars

Or Vostarg...flood the board with all the Vulkites in your collection and hope something sticks.

[Doko]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

I called Greyfyrd as probably being the best. It makes sense since it buffs up foot heroes for slightly better longevity vs being an easy squishy target like a monster. It buffs the death-star FatherHGB. Assuming you can keep them both within each others range while they charge...

Thats pretty much the list. Everything else is filler. Or add more with SonHGB mini-stars

Or Vostarg...flood the board with all the Vulkites in your collection and hope something sticks.

Yes,the core is father+hgb15 then two son+hgb10. That is 1400 points and if the father is general we have the battlelane allready.

So now the question is: what get for that 600 points?

1-One smith on magma so we dont loose the free mount trait and one runemaster + gyrobomber or copter so we have a dwarf army

2-one sc dragons so we have monsters with high mov,runemaster and runesmitter

I guess option 2 is more competitive but isnt full dwarfs.

Also get the best enhacement of father that can be overkill(axe of grimnir) or use it with one son that with only 10hg maybe need more that extra damage.

I know i have been very negative(and i think this book is less competitive than our old book yet),but now i start to feel some excitement with the deathstars of footheroe and hg

[DrewGo]

6 hours ago, Doko said:

Yes,the core is father+hgb15 then two son+hgb10. That is 1400 points and if the father is general we have the battlelane allready.

So now the question is: what get for that 600 points?

1-One smith on magma so we dont loose the free mount trait and one runemaster + gyrobomber or copter so we have a dwarf army

2-one sc dragons so we have monsters with high mov,runemaster and runesmitter

I guess option 2 is more competitive but isnt full dwarfs.

Also get the best enhacement of father that can be overkill(axe of grimnir) or use it with one son that with only 10hg maybe need more that extra damage.

I know i have been very negative(and i think this book is less competitive than our old book yet),but now i start to feel some excitement with the deathstars of footheroe and hg

Personally I think you take the Magmadroth with Runesmiter. Obviously SC Dragons are really good, but I think the new droth profile is going to do some serious work. Plus the obvious benefit of getting buffed by your runes. The 3 extra mortals on a stomp trait is really good. That's 4 guaranteed mortals every turn with a possibility of 6 before it even fights. New shooting profile can do serious damage to big units as well. Then you take a Runemaster and honestly I think a Battlesmith might be worth taking even if he probably does still get shot off the board. The possibility if rallying back a bunch of HGB is too tasty to not give yourself a chance. 

[Doko]

The problem with the extra 3 dmage with stomp that sound great again in paper,but in games everyone is a monster or is inside the battallion of inmune to stomp.

So usually only gonna can use stomp on non monsters heroes. To me the reduce damage in 1 of mount trait is 100% autoinclude and only gonna use the others 2 in some lofnyr list.

Maybe be the meta in my city and tournaments where i go,but usually people get the inmune stomp batallion before the one drop or more enhacements.

 

[DrewGo]

23 minutes ago, Doko said:

The problem with the extra 3 dmage with stomp that sound great again in paper,but in games everyone is a monster or is inside the battallion of inmune to stomp.

So usually only gonna can use stomp on non monsters heroes. To me the reduce damage in 1 of mount trait is 100% autoinclude and only gonna use the others 2 in some lofnyr list.

Maybe be the meta in my city and tournaments where i go,but usually people get the inmune stomp batallion before the one drop or more enhacements.

 

Good point. I mostly play in a PtG league, so Monsters and Battalions are harder to come by and I didn't think of Hunters of the Heartland. 

[Doko]

Only for fun(and because i got some pm asking me for it) i did a tier list of new book.

https://ibb.co/QDSgvSF

 

The flamekeeper is in the same tier than vulkites and battlesmith of fun in certain lists.

 

Its only my opinion and for sure we have everyone one diferrent but is fun know what is your opinion as fyreslayers players too

[Doko]

One question:

 

How work the ale of x2 attacks and the +2 attacks of father and rune?

 

1--x2 attacks and then +2 attacks

2-+2 attacks and x2 attacks then

 

I think is option 2 because the +1 of rune is in hero phase,the +1 and x2 are at the start of combat phase so i choose active first the father skill and then the ale.

But i am not sure

 

Also i did some numbers because i have free time:

Father 125 point for 5'3 damage so 23'58 point spent per each 1 damage. With axe of grimnir 7'1 damage 17'6 points per wound

Son 80 points for 4'4 damage are 18'1 points per damage. With axe of grimnir 6'6 damage 12'1 points per wound

So if we calculate the cost and damage,the son is better than the father.

 

Also i did the numbers of the magmadroth bomb to see how much is the damage,i did it with the rune of +1 hit and +1 attack that gonna be higher damage but 2 less rend than the other rune.

0\5 damage of breath rend1

Father 20 damage rend1

Magmadroth 5'5 rend2 damage and 8'9 rend 1

So in total 29 rend1 damage and 5'5 rend2 damage that can attack twice and we add betwen 0 and 5 rend 1 of breath and 0\2 mortals of taill also

I didnt done numbers with the 2 rend rune.

Also this damage is one time,can attack twice.

 

To me dont like because is too much only one time per game skills and all in one model with 16w and save4 that gonna be killed before go into melle many times.

But for sure the damage is high and seem a fun list to try if you can keep him alive but im sure gonna be more efficient spend these resources on the bomb of father+retinue

Edited March 9, 2022 by Doko

[DrewGo]

5 hours ago, Doko said:

How work the ale of x2 attacks and the +2 attacks of father and rune?

What rule multiplies number of attacks? 

Enhanced rune of Fury adds 1 attack to melee weapons. Lord of the lodge does the same. They don't multiply. So if you were to get the enhanced rune, or use the heroic action to get it, and also pop Lord of the Lodge your Runefather gets +2 attacks that turn. 

[DrewGo]

16 minutes ago, DrewGo said:

What rule multiplies number of attacks? 

Enhanced rune of Fury adds 1 attack to melee weapons. Lord of the lodge does the same. They don't multiply. So if you were to get the enhanced rune, or use the heroic action to get it, and also pop Lord of the Lodge your Runefather gets +2 attacks that turn. 

I'm dumb. Realizing now you mean the Blood of the Berzerker ability that lets him attack twice with strike last. 

I see no reason the extra attacks from runes and lord of the lodge wouldn't apply because the ability specifically says "after it has already attacked" it can declare it is going berzerk.

 

 

[Doko]

No,i meant the ehnacement for generic heroes of our book,that let you at the start of combat phase one time per game double your attacks.  Its name its ale of ....

So it is diferent if this ale is x2 before or after the +2 attacks

Edited March 10, 2022 by Doko

[DwarfsOnly]

5 hours ago, Doko said:

 

So it is diferent if this ale is x2 before or after the +2 attacks

After. So if you use it with the runefather buff. It's (attacks x 2) + 1, for example. 

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, DwarfsOnly said:

After. So if you use it with the runefather buff. It's (attacks x 2) + 1, for example. 

I think its the other way around. At least it is in 40k. Rules that add attacks to the base profile are applied first then other stuff like items do their thing. 

So in 40k an Ork Warboss has Str6 and 5A. He is equipped with a Power Klaw that gives Str x2. Next a power gets cast on him that gives +2 Str and A. So his new base profile is Str8 and 7A. Now the Power Klaw kicks in giving him Str16. 

Same concept would apply to the attacks for the Runefather.

[Paul Buckler]

22.2.4

[Lechu]

Any good list 1500 points with greyfyrd and hearthguard? 

[Liquidsteel]

It’s after, as Paul has quoted in the rules.

Note that this also follows the mathematical principle of BODMAS in case you wondered why GW might have done it this way.

[DwarfsOnly]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

 

Same concept would apply to the attacks for the Runefather.

22.2.4: "Apply modifiers that multiply or divide a value before applying modifiers that add to or subtract from a value."

I don't know why this has to be said over and over, but Age of Sigmar is not 40k.

 

[Doko]

I tougth as the + attack was in hero phase and the x2 in combat phase i was later. But thank you very much for the clarification!

Then the magmabomb is worse even lol i guess its better the rune of +2 rend than the +1 hit and +1 attack that i used

[Ser_namron]

I'm gonna try one of these out this weekend. Might be a bit light on bodies, but i think it'll be nice and killy.  Havent played FS in like 3 years, and ive played like 3 games of 3.0 so lmk if you see something funky here. 

Lodge- Greyfyrd- 1995/2000
RF on magmadroth- 360
General
command trait; Spirit of Grimnir –Urgold runes enhanced on 5+
Artefact- Master rune of unbreakable resolve- once per battle, start of a phase bearer gets 3+ ward save until end of phase
Mount trait- Coal heart ancient- -1 damage from melee
Retinue- R1
Runefather on foot- 125
Artefact; Axe of grimnir- rend/dmg +1
Retinue- R2
Battlesmith -150
artefact- Nulsidian Icon- wholly within 12" ignore spells on 4+
Runemaster – 125
Prayer- heal
(R1)HGB w/ Poleaxes x15- 480
(R2)HGB w/ Broadaxe x15 -480
VB w/ shields x10- 170
Grimwrath Berserker-105
Oath- I will let nothing stand in my way- reroll run/charge
artifact- The daemon slayer- 1 bearers melee weapon ignores ward saves

Battalions
Warlord- RF on mag, RF, Battlesmith, Runemaster,Grim Berzerker)
Hunters of the heartlands- HGB, HGB, VB

Grand strategy- Hold the line ( battleline survives battle)


Heres a 2x runefather on foot list i would run. The Runefather/runeson ability that lets their retinue attack with them is pretty great, i was thinking of dropping the RF on magmadroth for another RF on foot, that way i can do the dauntless assault ability with both blobs of  HGB. So for 2 activates i get both RF and HGB attacking. didnt know if i should swap the grimwraths and vulkites in the battalions. I kinda figured the grimwrath would go head hunting which might be better in hunters battalion.

Lodge- Greyfyrd- 1995/2000

RSM on magmadroth- 340
Mount trait- Coal heart ancient- -1 damage from melee
Prayer-Ember Storm
Runefather on foot- 125
General- Spirit of Grimnir –Urgold runes enhanced on 5+
Retinue- R1
Artefact- Master rune of unbreakable resolve- once per battle, start of a phase bearer gets 3+ ward save until end of phase
Runefather on foot- 125
Artefact; Axe of grimnir- rend/dmg +1
Retinue- R2
Battlesmith -150
Artefact-Nulsidian icon
Runemaster – 125
Prayer- heal
Grimwrath Berserker-105
artifact- The daemon slayer- 1 bearers melee weapon ignores ward saves
(R1)HGB w/ Poleaxes x15- 480
(R2)HGB w/ Broadaxe x10 -320
VB w/ shields x10- 170
Runic Fyrewall- 55 
Battalions
Warlord- Rsm on mag, RF,RF, Battlesmith, Runemaster,Grim Berzerker)
Hunters of the heartlands- HGB, HGB, VB

Grand strategy- Hold the line ( battleline survives battle)

Edited March 11, 2022 by Ser_namron
formatting

[Malakithe]

Im messing around in the app and I can only reinforce HGB one time. Im guessing that a bug

[Ser_namron]

23 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Im messing around in the app and I can only reinforce HGB one time. Im guessing that a bug

happened to me earlier, just reset the app and it worked. 

[Malakithe]

15 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

happened to me earlier, just reset the app and it worked. 

I just closed it and restarted and forced stop but its still not working

edit: it just started working normally on its own lol wonky app

Edited March 11, 2022 by Malakithe

[DwarfsOnly]

Tested a Greyfierd-HGB-Heavy list against two armies. One was a Trogg heavy GSG, the other was Thanquol-led-Skaven with 6x Stormfiends. Both are lower-tier armies, so I won't do a batrep breakdown. I handled both their lists easily despite at least one of my opponents being much better at the game than I am. So all I can really say from it is that the army definitely is significantly improved from before. Even with Hermdar both those players and their lists could and would give me headaches, particularly the Skaven.

MVPs: Wyldwood producing spell vs. Skaven. Grimwrath Berserker w/ Magmalt Ale vs. GSG.  Also Molten Infernoth just completely dunked on both of them.

Edited March 11, 2022 by DwarfsOnly

[Lechu]

1 hour ago, DwarfsOnly said:

Tested a Greyfierd-HGB-Heavy list against two armies. One was a Trogg heavy GSG, the other was Thanquol-led-Skaven with 6x Stormfiends. Both are lower-tier armies, so I won't do a batrep breakdown. I handled both their lists easily despite at least one of my opponents being much better at the game than I am. So all I can really say from it is that the army definitely is significantly improved from before. Even with Hermdar both those players and their lists could and would give me headaches, particularly the Skaven.

MVPs: Wyldwood producing spell vs. Skaven. Grimwrath Berserker w/ Magmalt Ale vs. GSG.  Also Molten Infernoth just completely dunked on both of them.

Can you post your list? Thx

[5kaven5lave]

Afternoon all, bit of advice please if you guys have a sec. Basically I have:

Start Collecting box

The new Fomo Box

Foot heroes apart from Doomseeker and Berserker

4 boxes of Hearthguard

 

Was gonna run Greyfyrd:

Father on Droth

Son

Master

Smiter

Smith

10 pickbros

10 double axe bros

10 HGB

15 HGB

5 Aurics

 

Was thinking more units might help me get more board coverage or should I just go 3x10 HGBs and shoehorn some extra stuff in? Ta!!

Edited March 11, 2022 by 5kaven5lave